Omaha Bedding Company's Warren Firm mattress

Hi,
First off, thank you for this informative site. I have read all your tutorials and many many of the forum posts. After doing this, my husband and I have tried out tons of mattresses at area stores, looking for things like posture and pressure point relief as you suggest. This past weekend we tried the Omaha Bedding Company’s Warren Firm mattress, which we liked a lot and has made its way to the top of our list. Since every clerk at the Nebraska Furniture Mart who stopped by to talk up the bed while we were trying it out gave us different and conflicting information about it, I called Omaha Bedding today and got the actual specs from them. Here is what the specs are, in order from top to bottom:

Fabric
Natural fiber fire barrier (he wouldn’t tell me what the fiber was, only that it is a natural fiber)
1/2" 100% natural talalay
2" quilting foam 15ILD, 2.2lbs
3" Visco memory foam, 5 lbs
7" polyurethane base foam 36ILD, 1.5lbs

He said his foams are Certi-PUR and made (except the talalay) by Future Foam in Council Bluffs, IA.
He said that this was one of the best mattresses they make, and that all the foams are high quality and will last 10-12 years.

But looking at the specs, something doesn’t seem right. If I understood what I have read on this website correctly, indeed, the top layers are all very high quality like he said. But the base layer, at 1.5 lbs, looks like it is way under your recommendations of a 1.8 lbs minimum. When I expressed surprise at the 1.5 lb base layer, as it seemed a much lower quality than all the other components, the man at Omaha Bedding was very surprised. He said anything 1.5 and over is considered really good, and that crap foam is foam that is less than 1.0 lbs, and 1.25 lbs is industry average. So I am confused, it doesn’t make sense that they would use really good foam for most of the bed, only to use terrible foam on their base, on their best bed… So, have I misunderstood what I’ve read about foams on this website? Is he possibly talking about some other kind of foam than what I think he is talking about where 1.5 lbs is actually good? This bed was looking great to us, until I saw that last spec, so I want to make sure I don’t pass on it due to a mistaken understanding about what I’ve read here.

Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts!

Hi hcanton,

Thanks for taking the time to list the “correct” specs of your mattress. It’s good to see that you are taking the time to do such good research and it’s also good to see that Omaha Bedding is transparent about the type and quality/density of the materials inside their mattresses as well.

When you sleep on a mattress the upper layers of foam will compress and deflect more than the deeper layers partly because the comfort layers are usually made to be softer than the deeper transition and support layers of a mattress (and firmness/softness is also a factor in the durability of a material) and partly because they are closer to the sleeping surface and subject to direct compression without any layers above them absorbing some of the compression forces first. It’s this constant deflection of the foam materials in the upper layers of the mattress that softens and breaks down the foam and leads to the loss of comfort and support in the mattress. This will also happen more under the heavier parts of the body such as the hips/pelvis than the lighter parts of the body. This is why the quality/durability of the upper layers (the top 3" to 6" of the mattress) are especially important in the durability and useful life of the mattress as a whole because they will usually be the weakest link in the mattress in terms of durability.

The firmer support core is not as big a factor in the durability of a mattress when there are thicker layers of higher quality and durable materials above it that would absorb most of the compression forces that come from sleeping so for those who aren’t in higher weight ranges or in the case of mattresses where there needs to be some tradeoffs between durability and the price of the materials in a mattress then the deeper layers of the mattress are the best place to use slightly lower density polyfoam and 1.5 lb density would also be suitable for a base layer as well as long as someone wasn’t in a higher weight range (mid 200’s or higher) that would be likely to compress the deeper layers more than lighter body types.

In the case of the Warren firm … the top 5 1/2" of the mattress are all higher quality and more durable materials so unless you were in an unusually high weight range then given the thickness of the higher quality materials above it I wouldn’t consider the 1.5 lb polyfoam to be a weak link in terms of the durability or useful life of the mattress (see the guidelines here).

1.5 lb polyfoam is often used in support cores even by the major manufacturers but there are certainly many manufacturers that use higher quality/density foams even in the support core of their mattress and I don’t agree that 1.25 lb polyfoam is an “industry average”. It would be very unusual to see polyfoam that was lower quality/density than 1.5 lbs in a mattress support core unless they were in the lowest budget ranges (although lower density foams are more common in the upper layers of a mattress … especially with major brands).

There is also more detailed information about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here and the other posts it links to but if you aren’t in a higher weight range and you have confirmed that the mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP and it also compares well to the other finalists on your list in terms of all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix. Your mentioning of weight being a key factor as to whether 1.5 lbs is an adequate density for us, actually brings up a question I’ve had for a while. I am 5’4" and weigh 130 lbs, my husband is 5’10" and weighs 170 lbs. While initially that would seem to indicate that 1.5 lbs density would be adequate for us as a base layer, I’m wondering if the fact that we usually sleep VERY close together, snuggled like nesting spoons, would actually mean that we should consider our weight to be our combined weight of 300 lbs?

Hi hcanton,

It wouldn’t be a particularly significant issue in terms of density since your weight is “spread out” over two separate bodies … but if you sleep that close together it can contribute to “roll together” in the middle of a mattress so I would make sure you have tested the mattress carefully with both of you on the mattress in your “normal” sleeping position to make sure that the thickness/firmness of the comfort layers in combination with the firmness of the base layer is firm enough for both of you sleeping closely together so that one of you doesn’t roll into the other one too much in the middle of the mattress (although this would be less likely with a 36 ILD base layer which is firmer than usual).

Phoenix

Phoenix,
Yes, indeed! You guessed one of the big problems we’ve had in mattress shopping perfectly, and the very reason I won’t try out any mattresses unless my husband is with me! The problem of my rolling in towards him, is one we’ve run into frequently and is a big problem for me on our current bed… The other problem I’ve had is that on the vast majority of mattresses we’ve tried, I end up “saucer” shaped when I lay on my side (feet and head high, with a low point at my waist- I am distinctly hourglass shaped, so when on my side it is hard to keep my hips from tipping towards my shoulders (creating a dip in my spine at my waist and aches in my ribs), and my husband has had a lot of trouble finding a mattress that allows his shoulders to sink in far enough. On top of that, I am primarily a side and stomach sleeper, he is primarily a side and back sleeper. It certainly has been difficult to find a mattress that accommodates all those variables!

After having read all the rave things about latex on this site, I wanted to go that route, but there are few latex mattresses available in my Omaha area to try out and they are spread across the Omaha/Lincoln area… So for the benefit of other forum users who may be in this area, as well as for people who might sleep like we do of being all snuggled together, I am going to give details on what I’ve found on the talalay mattress front, and some other components, more than is really relevant in regards to this conversation in the questions I have for you. :lol: .

Midwest Bedding in Omaha has one all talalay mattress, but my husband and I both found it uncomfortably firm- it is a 7" flippable mattress made out of 38 ILD talalay (6" + 1/2" quilting each side). The company owner said he could build it with layers of 18 ILD talalay on top, and he laid 1" sheets of 18ILD talalay on top of the mattress so we could experiment with it. The 18 ILD was cloud soft, but 1 & 2 inches of it still had us hitting the hard under-layer, but at 3 inches of topper I was uncomfortably out of alignment, with my hip tilting.

Lebeda in Omaha also has an all talalay mattress, 6" of 32ILD with 1" of ticking on each side, but it was definitely still too hard for us. Lebeda has a few other mattresses that have some talalay in them- the Quanta L is a flippable mattress made of Bolsa coils with a perimeter edge of smaller coils, topped with 1" of 24ILD talalay on each side. We have found we love pocket coils for the lack of motion transfer, but unfortunately they don’t seem to give me good alignment on most of the beds I’ve been on that has them. I usually am sagging at the hip on them, unless the coils are heavier duty and zoned. The 24 ILD talalay felt nice though. Lebeda also has one called the Heritage Pillowtop that has a 2" layer of 24ILD talalay, 2" of 19 ILD 1.55 lb soy foam (weak link?), and an 805 coil unit of 14.5 gauge. This was one of our favorites for posture and pressure point, but I found it uncomfortable when laying close together with my husband, lots of roll-in, and it had too much motion transfer across the bed. Not tons, but definitely more motion than all foam or pocket spring mattresses have. Drat that continuous coil seems to be in most beds of the smaller manufacturers around here!

Denver Mattress Co in Lincoln, has the Aspen Plush that has 3"of 24 ILD talalay in it, along with 2.5" of supersoft quilting foam, and an inch of 2 lb HR foam on top of “orthopedic” zoned 15.5 gauge pocket coils, which we both found cloudlike, but which had me dipping at my waist. They also have the iChoice HeveaPUR which is quilted with 2" 24ILD talalay, 1" EF foam, has a 3" 14ILD talalay topper, and a support system of 4" 32ILD talalay and 3" 1.8lb HR foam. This was a very cloud soft mattress, but too much so for us- even my husband was visibly saucer-shaped and had side-strain when on his side on this one, which I don’t think he mentioned on any other of the many beds we’ve tried. In addition Denver Mattress’s website shows that they carry 3 all talalay mattresses (HeveaPUR 8, 9, & 10.5 inches) that are stacked in different ILD layers, but the outlet in Lincoln didn’t yet have them, although he expected to get them in soon…

Taking what I’ve learned from those mattresses, I know that 38 and 32 ILD talalay is too hard for us, 18 ILD is too soft, and 24 ILD might be too soft, but it is hard to say for certain since it was always on beds in combination with other soft foams. There don’t seem to be any latex beds in the area where we could try out what layering of different talalay ILD’s would feel like, other than the 38/18 one at Midwest Bedding, and Denver Mattress’s too soft iChoice.

We know from our mattress testing that in order of preference we like the “no motion transfer” and lack of rolling in towards each other on foam beds, followed by pocket springs-particularly ones that are a bit stiffer and zoned firmer under the hips. All other spring types we’ve tried are no-go’s for shakyness and for how they roll me in towards my husband. Another thing I’ve learned, but haven’t been able to recognize in specs yet, maybe you can tell me, is how to recognize which memory foams are the slowly sinking down kind (I greatly dislike this), whereas other beds that also have memory foam in them, like the Warren Firm (that I do like), don’t do that slowly sinking thing. When I’m looking at beds online, how can I recognize from specs/mattress descriptions which kind of memory foam it has, if it is the sinking or non-sinking kind? Is there a way to tell?

Regarding latex, we really like the elastic feel of talalay on the beds we’ve tried (I don’t know about Dunlop as there are no mattresses locally that use it), but so far we haven’t found a latex bed that works for us. Do you think this is due to the limitations of what latex beds are available locally for us to try out, or is it possible that talalay just doesn’t work for us? I’m not really thrilled with the idea of buying a mattress from Nebraska Furniture Mart (where the Warren Firm is) due to their return/exchange limitations (there is no other mattress there that I’d want if it didn’t work out). But with the difficulties we’ve had getting good alignment on both of us, I also wonder if buying sight unseen from one of the online companies listed here on the mattress underground would be likely to be successful for us. Although at this point 'I am starting to have a good idea of things that work for us and things that don’t. Thoughts? The other mattress that is high on our list besides the Warren Firm is the Denver Mattress Co’s Doctor’s Choice Elite Firm, which has 1.5" of quilting foam, 1" of 4 lb Gel/Visco, 1" of 2 lb HD foam, and a “orthopedic” zoned 14.5 gauge pocket coil. My husband liked it too, but wasn’t sure it was soft enough for his shoulders.

As per your comment up top in your first comment about Omaha Bedding Co. being transparent about their mattresses, I’m not sure I would go that far- I felt like I was pulling teeth to get the spec information from the guy at the company. He told me multiple times that “He could guarantee that I am going about looking for a mattress all wrong, that I didn’t need to know the specs, that I should just go lie on mattresses and find one I like, and buy that one.” I had to be really insistent, to get the specs… However, I do appreciate that I was able to get them, since I do like the mattress and I wasn’t willing to consider the mattress seriously until I had that info… Although, afterwards I realized he didn’t give me the ILD for either the talalay or the memory foam, but since the talalay is only a 1/2 inch layer, and I do have at least the density of the memory foam, I didn’t want to call him back and press for the ILD’s since he was already really testy the first time I called!

Hi hcanton,

Your body shape can certainly make finding a suitable mattress more challenging and your side/stomach sleeping is also somewhat challenging as well because they are at opposite ends of the spectrum with stomach sleepers typically needing a firmer sleeping surface to prevent the hips and pelvis from sinking in too far and sleeping in a swayback position and side sleepers needing a thicker softer sleeping surface to relieve pressure on the hips and shoulders. In very general terms it can be a good idea to choose a mattress that is “just enough” in terms of the thickness and softness of the comfort layers to relieve pressure when you are sleeping on your side so that there is less risk of sleeping out of alignment when you are sleeping on your stomach. Side sleepers and stomach sleepers usually need pillows that can accommodate both sleeping positions as well and stomach sleepers can also benefit from sleeping with a pillow underneath their pelvis / lower abdomen to help keep them in alignment.

Various zoning systems can also be very useful and worth considering for people who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here.

[quote]Denver Mattress Co in Lincoln, has the Aspen Plush that has 3"of 24 ILD talalay in it, along with 2.5" of supersoft quilting foam, and an inch of 2 lb HR foam on top of “orthopedic” zoned 15.5 gauge pocket coils, which we both found cloudlike, but which had me dipping at my waist. They also have the iChoice HeveaPUR which is quilted with 2" 24ILD talalay, 1" EF foam, has a 3" 14ILD talalay topper, and a support system of 4" 32ILD talalay and 3" 1.8lb HR foam. This was a very cloud soft mattress, but too much so for us- even my husband was visibly saucer-shaped and had side-strain when on his side on this one, which I don’t think he mentioned on any other of the many beds we’ve tried. In addition Denver Mattress’s website shows that they carry 3 all talalay mattresses (HeveaPUR 8, 9, & 10.5 inches) that are stacked in different ILD layers, but the outlet in Lincoln didn’t yet have them, although he expected to get them in soon…

Taking what I’ve learned from those mattresses, I know that 38 and 32 ILD talalay is too hard for us, 18 ILD is too soft, and 24 ILD might be too soft, but it is hard to say for certain since it was always on beds in combination with other soft foams. There don’t seem to be any latex beds in the area where we could try out what layering of different talalay ILD’s would feel like, other than the 38/18 one at Midwest Bedding, and Denver Mattress’s too soft iChoice.

Although, afterwards I realized he didn’t give me the ILD for either the talalay or the memory foam, but since the talalay is only a 1/2 inch layer, and I do have at least the density of the memory foam, I didn’t want to call him back and press for the ILD’s since he was already really testy the first time I called! [/quote]

When you are testing mattresses locally I would also keep in mind that knowing the ILD of the layers isn’t particularly important to know because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether a mattress “as a whole” is a suitable “match” for you in terms of PPP than the ILD of any of the individual layers. Every layer and component in a mattress will have an effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component above and below it and ILD is only one of several variables or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm a layer or a mattress “as a whole” will feel to different people (see post #4 here). In addition to this the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here) so using ILD by itself as a reliable indication of how any mattress will “feel” for you can sometimes be more misleading than helpful . For example a top layer that is only 1" thick can feel completely different from another layer that is 2" thick if the rest of the materials and components are the same.

You won’t be able to tell the response time of memory foam based on specs and the only way to know this would either be your own personal experience or a more detailed conversation with an online supplier who will know how their memory foam compares to other types of memory foam that are available.

Once again though … the thickness of any memory foam layers and the other layers and components both above and below it will have a significant effect on the feel and performance and resilience (springiness) of a mattress that contains memory foam so one mattress that contains memory foam may be much more or less resilient than another mattress that contains the same type of memory foam depending on the thickness of the memory foam layer, its position in the mattress, and the other materials and components in the mattress.

Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would only be a very small percentage of people) … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of information or specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. While knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is important … when you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of “comfort” specs that you may not fully understand then the most common outcome can be information overload and “paralysis by analysis”.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix. Your replies are always informative and helpful.

Yes, I understand that not being an expert on mattress components, I certainly can’t tell exactly what a mattress will feel like just looking at specs. However, I have started getting a general idea of what works for us- for example, if I see many inches of very soft layers in a description, I can be fairly certain at this point that the mattress will be too soft for us alignment-wise. I mostly provided the ILD information above, just to be helpful for other people in the Omaha/Lincoln area to know what latex mattresses are available locally. For example, so that people would know there is a very firm talalay mattress available at Midwest Bedding, and a much softer layered one at Denver Mattress. :slight_smile:

After thinking about it, I do have a concern about the Warren Mattress Firm, that maybe or maybe not, is justified. We first tried this mattress out at the very beginning of our mattress search, before I’d done any research, when NFM drew us in with it’s Labor Day sale flyers. We liked it, but set it aside after having read this website, since the density specs for all layers were not easily available and I had other stuff on my plate where I didn’t have time to think about mattresses. So, since a bunch of time had passed since we’d tried it, and this past weekend we had some time, I said, what the heck, let’s try it again, and if we still like it, I will see if I can find out the foam densities. Which obviously, I did, and posted. But what I was just thinking about was how the right side of the bed this past weekend was substantially more comfortable to me (firmer), when my husband and I switched sides, than the left side. This is relevant in that this bed was very near to a wall on the right side, meaning that most people who have tried the bed would mostly have been laying on the easily accessible left side, so the left side would be more broken in. And I didn’t like that side nearly as much. So I’m wondering if that might be an indicator of, if we purchased it, how the bed will feel a few months down the road. Thoughts?

Hi hcanton,

There could be two reasons I can think of for your experience with one side being softer than the other.

The first is that there will be a break in period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials in the mattress settle (see post #3 here) so it’s certainly possible that one side could feel firmer than the other if it has been broken in more than the other.

The mattress also contains 3" of memory foam which will soften to some degree with heat, humidity, and continuous pressure so it’s also possible that the memory foam on the side that your husband was testing had softened more under his greater weight (or possibly body heat) than the side you were testing so it felt softer when you switched sides. In general it can be a good idea to spend a little longer on a mattress that contains thicker layers of memory foam so that the memory foam has a chance to soften with heat and pressure so that what you “feel” will be more representative of how it will feel when you sleep on it over longer periods of time.

Phoenix

Unfortunately, the softer, more uncomfortable side, was the side that I had laid on first. The firmer side was the side he’d been laying on. So I think that leaves us with option 1, that after the initial break-in period, I won’t like how the bed feels nearly as much.

I really appreciate the time you take to answer posts! It is so helpful to me to have someone to write to about my mattress concerns and get meaningful feedback!

Hi hcanton,

It’s still possible that you may be having more effect on the memory foam than he is (you could be warmer than he is) but if your experience is consistent after letting the mattress “rest” and recover for a bit and you change the sides you start with and the same side still feels firmer than the other then it would be much more likely that it’s the result of one side being broken in more than the other.

I’m glad the feedback is helpful :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi again,
The other mattress we are considering at the top of our list is this one ), the Doctor´s Choice Elite Firm. This was our favorite at Denver Mattress Co. From what I can tell, the density specs look good, but I am unfamiliar with one of the abbreviations used in it, “EF”. What does the abbreviation stand for? What category of foam is this? Thanks!

An interesting side note about this mattress is how it demonstrates exactly what you talk about a lot of how you can’t tell what a mattress will feel like just from specs; because the Plush and the Firm have the exact same specs! And yet they feel entirely different. When I asked the store person if there was a mistake on one of their signs because of how they have the same specs, he said no, the coils are just twisted more tightly on the Firm- that is the only difference between the two. And yet they feel very different!

Hi hcanton,

[quote]The other mattress we are considering at the top of our list is this one ), the Doctor´s Choice Elite Firm. This was our favorite at Denver Mattress Co. From what I can tell, the density specs look good, but I am unfamiliar with one of the abbreviations used in it, “EF”. What does the abbreviation stand for? What category of foam is this? Thanks!

All the foam layers in this mattress are polyurethane foam (polyfoam) and they are all good quality/density materials and there are no weak links in the mattress so it would also be well worth considering.

The EF is just a name they use that has no bearing on the quality of the foam. It could mean something like “eco friendly” but that’s just a guess.

Phoenix

Thanks!