I’ve purchased a cheap innerspring locally to “get us by” (it will end up in the guest room) while I continue my research on latex. If I were to order today, these are the options I’m currently considering:
For the two DIY, I’m unclear on how to choose a cover. The bed from BB is “10 inches” but really only has 9" of latex, right? So do I get a 10" cover for the 6"+3" DIY? Is 6" really 6" or is it 5.5"? How would the 5.5" change things?
In all cases, I’m also considering ordering a softer separate 3" covered topper - perhaps a 19 or a 24 or maybe the GL slow recovery? I figure it gives me more options and even if I don’t use it, it can go on the guest bed.
Other pertinent information:
Due to geographic location, I have to order online and drive a considerable distance to go pick up from the delivered location. Same for any exchanges. So really, I want to avoid any returns/exchanges if at all possible. That’s why I’m willing to order an additional layer up front to give myself a higher degree of certainty I’ll “get it right” the first time.
I’m only looking at queen size due to existing furniture and bedding. A guy at BB recommended against splitting the mattresses (his/hers) for anything below King. Let me know if you think that’s not right
I’m 6’4" and 245lbs. While that weight may conjure up a certain body shape… I don’t have a large gut. I’m broad shouldered and my legs are pretty thick, so I’d say I carry less weight in the middle than most guy’s my size probably would. I sleep primarily on my side, although lately its been on my side/stomach more (I think that’s due to the poor support of our current mattress, I don’t know). I have back problems - had surgery 10 years ago that didn’t really help (L3/4 partial discectomy)
My wife is much smaller than I am. 5’4" and 120 lbs. She says she’s a stomach sleeper, but I think she’s more of a side sleeper than she thinks. Often wakes up on her back though. So really, a bit of everything. She suffers from hip pain quite often when she wakes up.[/li][li]we’re both 37 if that makes any difference
I bought the Aloe Alexis (14") from Brooklyn and I really like it - I sleep better.
It has a 7" core and two 3" latex layers (6 inches), the extra inch is the wool on top. Wool is a natural flame retardant and is very breathable (win/win). I suppose the model you are looking at has the same wool on top - I think their website bears this out: http://www.brooklynbedding.com/latex-mattresses/10-inch-total-latex-mattress
Personally, I would listen to the guy at BB on splitting a queen…you are a big guy and 30" is 1/2 the width of a queen. Seems too small for you in my opinion.
I know I’m not alone liking Brooklyn Bedding products as there have been several say they like BB on this forum.
Whatever your choice, best of luck to you.
Jeff
Normally you would use a cover that was the same or slightly less thickness than the layers that were going inside it. If you had 9"of latex then you would use a 9" cover for example even though the quilting in the cover (if it’s a quilted cover) would add to the final height of your mattress. An 8" cover would probably also work for 9" of latex but the latex would be compressed more and be firmer. If you talk with the supplier of the cover they will be able to tell you which of their covers will be suitable for the layers you are ordering. There is some variation in the thickness of various latex cores so you would need to ask the supplier of your latex the exact thickness of the core you are ordering.
I think that this would be a personal preference and I would base it on your own knowledge of your own sleeping habits. There are many people who are happy with a split queen but as jefmoody pointed out half of a split queen is quite small (only 2" wider than a standard crib size mattress) so for some people you may end up sleeping on the part of the mattress that includes the transition from one firmness level to the other.
Post #2 here includes links to some of the “theory” behind different types of layering and construction but without the help of a knowledgeable manufacturer you are quite likely to end up with a more costly mattress if you try to design your own and haven’t reached the level of knowledge where you don’t need help from anyone else to decide on the best materials and design for your specific needs and preferences. Post #29 here from earlier today would also be well worth reading along with post #15 here.
If you do decide to design and build your own mattress then I would do it for the challenge and learning experience involved because the odds are high that it may end up costing more than you think either in terms of actual cost or in terms of lost sleep if you end up with an unsuitable mattress.
Yeah, I’ve read that opinion of yours before. But I guess I’m confused on how a knowledgeable manufacturer is going to do any better when they’ve already made their recommendations and I know what is going in theirs… why can’t I just do the same with a virtually identical result? I know the 6" core and I know the 3" comfort layers’ ILDs. The only thing left is the cover, and I find it hard to believe that they are specifically engineering their covers for my particular needs. Unless I’m missing something, its not like I’m trying to guess at the composition of a Sealy or some other mystery-content mattress. The BB Total Latex mattress consists of two hunks of latex and a cover, right?
Unless you didn’t consider BB as one of the “knowledgable manufacturers”. They spent some time with me in the chat and came up with the exact same recommendation that I figured on my own. Then I confirmed what ILD those layers indicated and what manufacturer the latex came from, so I figure I’m on an apples-to-apples basis.
I’d be very happy to buy theirs, if I saw ANY reasonable justification for the ~$300 premium for their already-built mattress. I mean, vs. their own latex core prices… I’m not the first to point out that you can simply build theirs for much less. And that $300 is assuming I use the most expensive bamboo/wool cover I can find!
This isn’t about savings, really, though. I’m not going to worry about $300 if there’s a reason. I’m just finding it hard to define that reason. Is that cover of theirs really worth $600+?
[quote=“Phoenix”] Post #29 here from earlier today would also be well worth reading
[/quote]Maybe you meant a different post? That guy built his own innerspring (why?)… something that would clearly have a LOT more variables (components). I mean, you have coil construction, material, count… encasement, foam above, foam below, wire frame or not, pockets or not, etc etc etc. I have no doubt that would be difficult. But two hunks of foam in a sock when the layers are “known” (vs qualified recommendation)?
I linked the post just as just one example of many others (including many who have worked on their own layering system and gone in the same direction as you are) who have discovered that building their own mattress was a little more complex and involved than “putting a bunch of foam together in a sack” and were quite surprised at some of the complexities involved in something seemingly so simple.
In many cases they have ended up learning a great deal but what they learned also came at a cost if there are any exchanges involved.
The cover you use can make a significant difference in the feel and performance of the mattress so I would also make sure that you treat the type of cover as being just as important as the latex inside as well.
My links were meant to make sure your expectations were realistic based on the experiences of many who have gone in the same direction you have … some more successfully than others.
The “best” approach is to start with a design that you believe would work well for you based on conversations with retailers and manufacturers and your own personal experience testing mattresses. Each manufacturer will give you their “best” suggestions based on the specifics of their mattress and their knowledge and experience with their customer base but since there is no “formula” that can predict what any specific person may do best with you will also find that different manufacturers will give you suggestions that seem to be quite different (see post #8 here).
It’s realistic to “expect” that you will need to make some changes after your first combination (unless you are closer to the “I can sleep on anything” end of the scale than the “princess and the pea” end of the scale) so the return or exchange policies of the places you buy your components would be a factor to consider.
The biggest benefit of building your own vs working with a manufacturer or retailer that offers various options for exchanging layers is the learning curve you will go through and if this is part of the appeal then it can be a great project. Those who only do it to save money are often disappointed that it didn’t quite work out the way they planned once they need to start making changes from their original choices.
If it’s not about the savings then you are taking the most realistic approach. Some covers are “worth” $600 and some aren’t but a big part of the “value” / cost of any mattress is about how well you sleep on it.
A “hunk of latex” or two and a cover may be a little more complex than you realize
1)Buy the latex layers you think will fit you, no cover.
Make the bed with the pad, sheets and protector(if used) that you would use normally. If you are going to buy new linens, get the stretchiest possible(like jersey knit). This will let you feel the latex properties best.
If you have the layering right then you can decide on what cover you want.
If you really like the feel of the latex and you don’t sleep hot or care about the other properties of wool, a stretchy knit non quilted cover would be least expensive.
Any wool quilted cover will change the feel of the layers below.
I’ve decided to just buy the complete mattress from BB. So its a 32 ILD 6" Talalay core below a 28 ILD 3" Talalay layer. That’s what Mario recommended. To give myself even more options and chance of “getting it right”, I also ordered a 24 ILD 3" Talalay topper. I figure if the bed feels too firm, we can try the topper before resorting to an exchange. If the topper is unnecessary, it can go downstairs on the new $700 innerspring in the guest room. That also gives us the option of putting that topper on the floor in the event we need another “bed” for an extra guest.
All in, it still cost me $300 less than the local store (who made me mad) and I get a topper out of it too.
I don’t get why you’re discouraging the DIY route so much Phoenix.
This is a forum for consumer’s I’m hoping and not one that just steers business to the members of the mattress underground.
There shouldn’t be any variables if you’ve tried the specific mattresses already. Me for example, I lied down on a pure bliss latex mattress and I know that if I use Latex International latex with the same ILDs then I can have the exact same experience on my own DIY mattress.
There is no rocket science here.
If you had to return a mattress I guess that’s where the added cost would come in.
Primarily because it’s a high risk and possibly costly proposition and I have seen the dissappointed results of many consumers who believed that it was easier that it really was and ended up regretting their choice.
It has nothing to do with the membership here or where someone buys a mattress from (see post #5 here) but about the risk being much higher than many people may realize. The goal of this site is to give people accurate and meaningful information that helps to create reasonable expectations and trying to design and build your own mattress is just higher risk. For those that are aware of this and are willing to take more risks for the potential of more rewards (or lower cost) it can be a good direction to go.
The goal of the site more than anything is too help people find a mattress that has the best possible quality and value and that is suitable for their needs and preferences. At the end of the day when people look back on their mattress purchase most people will remember much more about how well they slept than they will about how much they paid. If a complete DIY is the “best” choice for your personal value equation then that is the 'best" direction for you to go … as long as your eyes are open.
If the type of latex and the latex manufacturer is the same, the ILD and thickness of all the layers are the same, and the cover and quilting is functionally the same, then you’re correct the two mattresses would be substantially the same. This would depend on having accurate information about both a mattress you are trying to copy and the materials you are using to copy it though. The difficulty is that it’s often not possible to “match” all the specs and components that can make a difference in the feel and performance of a mattress and many consumers don’t fully understand the effect that seemingly small differences can make (see post #2 here).
And that’s what eventually weighed on my decision to spend the extra $300. While I don’t believe the cover to be such that it would have a retail price of around $600 (which is what would have to be the case to account for the $300), it was not a cover that I was able to source. All I could find were relatively basic “socks”, where (from the pictures at least) BB’s appears to be relatively tailored for the mattress.
I do believe a DIY would have been VERY similar to what my local store had. His cover looked identical to the ones I could source. And to be honest, that was the part I liked least about that mattress. The cover looked way too loose and it would have obvious wrinkles in it when you got off the bed. Like it didn’t really fit that well.
In the end, the price I paid was still a good amount less than the local store, but I feel I get a better product and an extra 3" topper to boot. I’m happy with that.
For me, the $300 is more than made up for with the following perceived benefits:
a possibly superior cover
a possibly more comfortable result (though I’m still not convinced that would have been the case)
double to quadruple the exchange window, should I need it
double the warranty - although this is minimal to me as I believe all latex to be durable
supporting the good customer service and education provided by BB
supporting the membership of this site, which has been invaluable
I, personally, don’t feel Phoenix was trying to dissuade me from DIY… just making sure I went in eyes open. The thing is, I’ve been driving myself nuts over this for weeks now and I just wanted it done. In addition to the reasons listed above… this was just easier.
Thanks for all your feedback, questions, and comments along the way … and congratulations on your new mattress
I agree with all of your points and logic as well and most importantly in the end you made the choice that was best for you which is the ultimate goal of the site.
I’m looking forward to your comments when you receive everything and have had the chance to sleep on it.
