Options needed to sleep cool + pressure relief -- Naturepedic, DIY, others??

I am so happy to have found this site and wish I had found it before I started my mattress journey! I have purchased and tried at least 5 different mattresses over 4 years. Biggest issue is I sleep hot and need pressure relief from SI joint (hip) damage. I’m mainly a side sleeper but also sleep on my back sometimes. I’m petite, 5’0 and 120 lbs, and husband is 6’0, 160lbs side sleeper. We both prefer a medium-soft mattress. We have an S-cape Adjustable base. We have natural bedding, keep the thermostat at 65. I’ve tried the “bed jet” and also Sleep Number’s Dual Temp layer - the Dual Temp I may go back to if I can’t find a better option, but did not like the way it made the mattress feel.
As far as mattresses, we’ve tried:
1- Charles P. Rogers Powercore Nano2 - (they told me this is the predecessor to the Estate Lifetime 5 currently offered). We bought in 2016 back before they had a trial policy. It was too firm from the start and also slept hot despite the Talalay latex. Rather than fight about a return I went the topper route. Tried a wool one but still felt it was too firm and hot. A “cooling” Costco gel foam topper made it bearable to sleep on my side but was always hot. When we moved this year I decided to leave the mattress behind and try something new. I still have it in storage.
2 - WinkBeds - soft - way too unsupportive and hot. Returned
3 - Casper Original Hybrid - too firm and hot. Returned
4 - Sleep Number i8 - too little cushioining and hot. Returned.
5 - Sleep Number i10 - supposedly their most cool mattress - what a joke. I’m baking in it every night. Even my husband notices it’s hot. Have until April to return.

Based on the bad experience with even the CPR sleeping hot I am very concerned I’m getting hot due to latex and am trying to assess the following options - or any others anyone recommends:

  1. “Natural” mattress like Naturepedic latex-free. I am leaning towards Naturepedic and will travel to a store to test it out soon. Very intrigued by the ability to swap comfort layers but this now has me thinking about just DIY…
  2. DIY (re-using parts of my Charles P Rogers? It doesn’t have a zipper encasement so would have to cut open and maybe swap out the latex wtih what?? Plus it was firm due to the coils so not sure how we’d even fix that?) but don’t really have the time to do this. I am worried about foregoing latex for the pressure-relief it offers but can’t stand sleeping so hot. If Purple/Intellibed made a topper I’d see if I could try that in lieu of the latex but am not finding any toppers of the “buckled column gel” material.
  3. Vispring and it’s an option too but I don’t like not having a return option with such a large purchase. I’m also open to something like Hastens or Duxiana but haven’t tested in a store and really want a decent return policy anyway.
  4. Local mattress company options (Bowles, Holder) but nothing seemed that great, no return options just exchange, and pretty sure they use foam/latex…
  5. Tried the Purple and was intrigued but just not sure.
    Does anyone have any other ideas or recommendations? Best bets for pressure relief without latex or foam? Know of any “buckled column gel” (Purple material) toppers? Thank you!

Intellibed does make a topper, I have it but it’s a little complicated. As people have mentioned before there is a lot of foam surrounding the gel grid so I had to buy a California king & cut it down to size to fit my twin xl. So I actually have almost all gel grid on my topper although it is attached on top of a 1" layer of foam. The gel grid is 2.5" thick. It is comfortable to me and sleeps cool. I also got the old style topper without the serene foam on top of the grid. They only sell the new style now with the serene foam on top & foam on bottom, they call it their luxury topper. Never tried the new one but I’ve read that it sleeps a little warmer due to the extra foam on top. They do have a trial period so you could return it but you have to buy the protector which is non refundable and you also have to pay return shipping so if you do return it depending on the size you buy you will be out at least a couple hundred. It’s not on thier website you have to order by phone. I’m not currently using it bc I want to create zoning underneath it so when I’m sleeping on my stomach my back doesn’t overarch. Back / side sleeping are very comfortable for me though. I also have a purple hybrid mattress and it does feel similar but different.

Sorry to hear about your hot sleeping experience. It’s pretty wild that even latex mattresses are sleeping hot for you, though I believe the ones you have listed are not all latex, but rather a single layer. Have you considered a copper-infused foam bed, like the Bear Pro or Brooklyn Aurora? I don’t have experience with them, but copper is supposed to actively pull heat from your body, and one reviewer of the BB (non-sponsored from what I could tell) said that the mattress actually feels uncannily cool to the touch, like there’s a refrigerator in it. Food for thought.

Hi sleepseeker2021.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :slight_smile:

Thanks for your appreciation, hopefully, now that you’ve “landed” here on The Mattress Underground, we’ll be able to share some insights, resources, and knowledge that may help you to move forward.

Certainly, a 5 years/4 mattress turnaround can be quite unsettling but it looks like you’ve started to recognize a common thread as it relates to sleeping hot and the comfort issues you’ve experienced.

Most of the mattresses you selected are a combination of memory foam or poly on top of a spring unit or air bladder. While spring is great to use as a mattress core for those who sleep hot, I’d keep in mind that the upper layers of a mattress are the most significant part of temperature and moisture regulation as it relates to the sleeper,

Memory Foam will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so the temperature can be an issue. Gel memory foams too… are a subgroup of memory foam with similar properties and there is a lot of hype and exaggeration about the cooler, faster response, or the more supportive new generation of “enhanced” memory foams. While there is “some” substance to the claims and cooling gels certainly have some slight cooling benefits (usually temporary when you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize), there are many other alternative materials and combinations that have similar or better properties such as latex rubber.

Another drawback of a memory foam comfort layer (including gel-infused) that may account for your comfort and pressure points issues is its temperature sensitivity: Viscoelastic foam goes through a transition from elastic to viscous within a certain temperature range. Foams that are more temperature-sensitive will be firmer when they are cooler and softer when they are heated by the body or the environment. Humidity also plays a role here (higher humidity softens it). Memory foams that are less temperature sensitive will tend to have less of a range of softness and firmness. foams that are more temperature-sensitive will be both firmer and softer depending on the degree of softening and transition into viscosity from elasticity.

The latex layer in the CPR may not be the main reason for sleeping hot. Latex in general is the most breathable and “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials but the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. While it’s also not always possible to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector, or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with … there is more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

You can read more about the many variables that can affect the temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful. You may also be interested in the information in post #28 about temperature regulation and mattress microclimate.

Some of the factors involved in how warm a mattress sleeps are how closely the foam conforms to your body (the more closely it conforms around you the more insulating it is), how soft or thick the foam in the comfort layers are (the softer/thicker it is the deeper you will sink into the more insulating materials), the type of quilting used in the mattress (natural fibers allow for more airflow and humidity control which translates into better temperature regulation), the type of ticking (cover) used (natural or more breathable fibers such as cotton or viscose or even some of the more breathable synthetics will wick away moisture and ventilate better and humidity control is a key part of temperature control), and on any cooling technologies used in the mattress such as ventilating and moisture-wicking materials, heat conductive materials, or phase change materials.

In addition to this … the mattress protector you choose along with your sheets and other bedding and what you wear when you sleep will also have a significant effect on temperature regulation because they can either add to the insulating effect or to the ventilating and moisture-wicking effect of your mattress. Bedding made from natural fibers or viscose materials (like bamboo) will also tend to be cooler than synthetic fibers and linen sheets along with silk are probably the coolest of all the natural fibers for those where the sleeping temperature is a main priority. In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make “enough” of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress.

When it comes to mattress recommendations for pressure relief … it is not possible for anyone else to make a choice for you as every person is different and only you can feel what you feel on a mattress. This is why I always suggest, if you haven’t already, to first review different comfort/support needs of the various sleeping positions. The short version: most side sleepers need 2" to 4" of material in the comfort layers. Without an appropriate comfort layer, a side sleeper may experience pressure points during the course of the night and could have symptoms of numbness, soreness, localized redness, or end up tossing and turning all night as your body tries to relieve the pressure.

I’d also take a look over the Mattress Durability Guidelines which will help you identify any weak links in a mattress as far as components are concerned.

You mentioned the buckling column gel and the Purple mattress more than once. Generally, buckling column gel is certainly an interesting material but like any material, some people will do well with it and some won’t. The thing that’s most unusual about it is that it has what could be called a negative compression modulus. Compression modulus is the rate that foam becomes firmer with deeper compression. With buckling column gel instead of getting firmer when you compress it more deeply like foam materials … it starts off firmer when it’s not compressed and gets softer when the columns buckle under pressure.

A DIY is certainly an option and can get a bit complex but it is usually a rewarding option if approached in the spirit of adventure. You’d be able to tweak and adjust the mattress to your liking, and can do a side-by-side split if your partner would prefer a different feel or firmness. If that’s the route you choose to take, there are experts and resources on TMU to help you.

Lastly, but probably the most important piece of advice, is not to make a purchase without having an in-depth conversation with the retailer or manufacturer of the mattress you are considering with regards to your needs, experience, and preferences; you’ll want to be on the lookout for retailers and manufacturers that employ people who are more interested in educating you and fitting you to a mattress than they are in the profits they will make (they understand that profits are a side effect, not a “cause”). They can tell you “why” one mattress may be better than another for your needs and preferences. And, they’ll be the best equipped to tell you whether a certain mattress is a fit for you or if they’d recommend a different mattress.

Let us know how your Naturepedic store visit turned out and if you found something that you like.

Phoenix

Thank you all so much, Phoenix, sleepdog, Mr. Yabo… Your extremely helpful advice is much appreciated and has given me more food for thought, especially before I go the latex-free route. I feel so foolish for not doing better research with all these purchases, especially the Sleep Number and WinkBed- just got suckered with their marketing. It’s odd because I’m analytical and normally do a lot of research, but in the mattress area the options are so overwhelming and construction info not disclosed easily in some cases so it doesn’t seem easy for consumers to sort out what is important! And I read another post by Phoenix or Sensei noting the generous return policies also lead us to de-emphasize making a more informed decision- I really do regret that, but I know better now and am especially reluctant with the Purple. Will keep you all posted.

Hi sleepseeker2021.

No reason to feel “foolish”! It is easy to get deceived. The marketing that some of the big mattresses employ is extremely engaging and luring, especially when they market mattresses as a one-size-fits-all solution.

This is why The Mattress Underground was founded. We aim to bring transparency and tools to the consumer to go into their mattress purchase confidently, educated, and knowing what to ask and which red flags to look out for. As you stated, these larger companies “avoid” at all costs to disclose much of the meaningful information about their mattress components. They hide behind a guise of wanting to “protect their formula” as it were, but the truth is they are more likely to use cheap components and they’d rather keep the wool over their customers’ eyes than be held to a higher standard of quality.

A good retailer is going to be transparent and put your needs above their bottom line every time.

Looking forward to your future updates!

Phoenix

Update: We have been sleeping on our new Naturepedic EOS pillowtop for a few nights. So far, so good… I was shocked when we pulled off the Sleep Number and unzipped to disconnect the pump and saw their inner layers - very basic foam! No wonder I was hot. The Naturepedic I got is all coils, ultra-plush and my SO the plush. The one huge difference I noticed was how good it smells. Unlike other mattresses which have a chemical smell you have to air out, Naturepedic was the opposite. Just clean, delicious smelling organic cotton. Really nice. I was highly surprised. I’ve slept much, much cooler than before, but am surprised at how much body heat does not dissipate so I am on a new mission now to fix my bedding. (I had been using the Sleep Number “comfort layer” mattress pad and was shocked to see a good part of it was polyester!!! Again from a company supposedly trying to help you sleep better with overheating materials and then a $$ solution (the dual temp) to cool you down…) As far as pressure relief goes, the Naturepedic is OK but I am sort of wishing it had a better zoned construction as I need a bit more give in my shoulder area, less in the back area… I wanted to travel to see the Dux bed in Chicago and try a Hastens but due to Covid & their quarantine laws it’s not feasible right now. We are going to do a layer swap with Naturepedic and see if I can tolerate a latex layer to make it a bit more plush, and have ordered an Avocado Green alpaca wool topper, duvet and linen sheets as well. We’ll see how this does… a little less than 90 days to figure out if I can commit to this mattress!

It’s funny you mention you wish the naturepedic had zoning bc i was thinking that the other day. When I’m on my stomach I need more support but feel it’s too firm on my back. I’m trying zoned nano coils instead as soon as I get back home. Well see if that helps.

To be clear I like the support coils just fine, I just wish the microcoils were zoned so thats why i am trying three 1" zoned nano coils instead of the medium microcoils mine came with.

Sleepseeker,

We have the Naturepedic EOS Pillowtop in the following configurations:
Me: Plush base coils, medium microcoils, medium microcoils
Him: Firm base coils, soft microcoils, soft microcoils

Me: I need support and yet plushness due to broken bone in my back, torn cartilage in my hip, herniated disks etc…
Him: Loves a soft plush bed.

We went with Naturepedic because it was odor free and very customizable. However I will say that it took a while for me to love the mattress. About 6 months. We have rotated it once in the almost year we have had it. It does seem either it gives more or I have adjusted my sleeping positions over time to make it work better. The only thing I really hated about it was the short length. But even that I have gotten used to.

I don’t think the 90 days is enough time to get used to it. I think Naturepedic is hurting themselves by not giving a more generous swap period. I think if they allowed a 1 yr swap period they would experience less swaps.

I’m not surprised you were both hot and not well supported on a Sleep Number, just look at the construction on both the beds you mentioned versus their other models.

Sleep Number i8

Sleep Number i10

Sleep Number P5 (their most popular)

Sleep Number C4 (their budget friendly level)

You can see they are all almost identical inside with just a few small foam changes (mostly just cheap poly and memory foam in there, no latex at all). Also note how thin the comfort layers are. The foam side rails are also no good, far too soft and they tend bow out on the sides when used. I’m not surprised at all about many folks complaining it doesn’t work for them because you need the air chambers somewhat firm on a bed like this in order to keep them from hammocking in the middle section. The obvious issue here is that those comfort layers are just not nearly up to the task. Even more hilarious is that thousands of dollars in cost separates these bed models and it’s clearly not the cost of manufacturing. The one good area of the entire mattress is the air adjustability but their effort to maximize profits unfortunately causes most of this benefit to go out the window for most people. Anyway, I know you moved on to a new bed but I thought I would put this up so others could see why the SN beds don’t work as sold.

Mr. Yabo - Where did you get your 1" zoned nano coils? I need to try those. I’m struggling to get comfortable with the Naturepedic and only have a few more weeks to decide… on my side my shoulder is going numb… and not loving how hot the latex gets. I reached out to customer service today too to see if they had any suggestions (below), we’ll see what they say… I am feeling a little desperate… after settling on the Charles P Rogers and being unhappy with it for 4 years, I don’t want to make the same mistake again… I may have to go to Chicago and try out the luxury brands. Will post separately about the Dux mattress being sold by West Elm.

“I wanted to check in and see if you had any recommendations on how to make the mattress softer. When I sleep on my side there is not enough give in the mattress and my shoulder and arm are tingling and going numb. We have a soft latex layer on top of the following coils: soft microcoils/medium microcoils/soft base coils. I tried it with soft microcoils in the middle layer but that did not provide enough back support when laying on my back. Without the extra latex layer on top it is too hard. With 2 soft latex layers on top of the soft base coils it is too hard. I’ve tried a memory foam topper but it makes me too hot. Do you have any other suggestions?”

I have to say, I am beginning to feel a bit sorry for some of these retailers who have to deal with large numbers of returns. I have plenty of options to chose from myself right now with good return policies, but am deliberately holding out until I’m 99% sure I know exactly what I want.

You may want to try taking a bed level photo of yourself in a side sleeping position so you can see your alignment when on the bed. You should be able to draw a straight line from the base of your neck down to your tailbone if the bed is doing its job. I have a feeling that you might have broad shoulders and they are going right through the comfort layer and bottoming out on the support layers below ( quite a common issue for many people). If this is the case it’s unlikely a single layer combo will fix the problem for you. Instead you would likely need to do mattress surgery (luckily the EOS is zippable) or try a different mattress option altogether to fix the issue.

Something like this (vZone Natural Talalay Premium Core Layer) may fix the issue in your EOS if you replaced the inner latex layer:

The EOS does use a pillowtop system so if you already sleep hot you may want to find a mattress that uses a stretch knit cover instead (helps with heat transfer away from your body). Latex is a fairly temperature neutral material so if you’re saying it sleeps hot I’d suspect other causes.

Update: Never completely thought the Naturepedic was that comfortable. It was good, but just not great, and for $5000 on a mattress I just couldn’t settle. Also for the first time ever experienced numb arm after side sleeping, so figured the Naturepedic just wasn’t letting my shoulders sink in soft enough. Tested Purple, Vispring, Hastens and Dux in store. For Vispring – what a difference their proprietary foundation layer makes – but that was an extra $5k+ so just could not swing a $25k+ mattress right now. On bucket list for retirement. :slight_smile: What has ended up working for us now is a Duxiana (6006) with one single layer of the Naturepedic extra soft latex on top. Changing bedding completely has also helped - what works for us is wool and cotton blankets and cotton sheets, over a Sleep Number cooling mattress pad. Also to relieve shoulder pressure when side sleeping have got a higher pillow configuration. The Dux bed is soft enough for my hips, no issues there… it’s not my “dream” bed but good enough for now.

Very oddly enough, we slept on the Charles P. Rogers again over the summer, on floor, without a base, and it was surprisingly much more comfortable than either of us had remembered. How it felt did change when it was placed on a foundation - making me even more convinced a foundation is part of the “secret sauce” of an ultra comfortable mattress - just so odd the floor/platform was so comfortable as a base. (Wonder if this is true at all/is backed by evidence). It was like a wine that aged better over time - due to transport issues we can’t have it as our main bed but now look forward to sleeping on it. Or maybe we have gotten heavier and can sink more into it now? (Haven’t gained more than 20 pounds but so curious why it was so much more comfortable - even hubby thought it was and he has lost weight if anything).