I am looking on-line at an Organic Full Size Latex Mattress online from sleepingorganic.com. I am a male 5’7", 140lbs. The configuration I am considering is:Two 3" cores = total of 6" high, a 3" X Firm Organic Dunlap Core on the bottom with a 3" Organic Soft Talalay Core on top. I like a firm mattress with softness on top for side sleeping. I sleep both on my back and roll to side. I have been to a local mattress store and tried out similar but not the exact combination. The combination I tried out was 3" X Firm Dunlop/2" Medium Talalay/2" Soft Talalay=7" high Mattress …Does First combination totaling 6"combination sound sensible and similar to the 7" version from a comfort and durability point of view? Is sleeping organic a reputable company to deal with ?? The mattresses seem priced a bit lower than my local mattress store. Any information would be appreciated . Skeptical buying a mattress online, since if an exchange is needed? shipping return charges could be high? Much Thanks
Hi Turtlebed,
Sleepingorganic is one of the members here which means I think highly of them and I believe they compete well with the best in the industry. All of their mattresses use good quality materials (latex) and can be customized both before and after a purchase by rearranging or exchanging the layers. They offer the option of 100% natural Dunlop, 100% natural Talalay, and will also supply organic Dunlop on request.
[quote]The configuration I am considering is:Two 3" cores = total of 6" high, a 3" X Firm Organic Dunlap Core on the bottom with a 3" Organic Talalay Core on top. I like a firm mattress with softness on top for side sleeping. I sleep both on my back and roll to side. I have been to a local mattress store and tried out similar but not the exact combination. The combination I tried out was 3" X Firm Dunlop/2" Medium Talalay/2" Soft Talalay=7" high Mattress …Does First combination totaling 6"combination sound sensible and similar to the 7" version from a comfort and durability point of view?
I like a firm mattress with softness on top for side sleeping. I sleep both on my back and roll to side. I have been to a local mattress store and tried out similar but not the exact combination. The combination I tried out was 3" X Firm Dunlop/2" Medium Talalay/2" Soft Talalay=7" high Mattress …Does First combination totaling 6"combination sound sensible and similar to the 7" version from a comfort and durability point of view?[/quote]
In terms of durability they would be similar because they use similar materials. There is more about the variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here.
In terms of how they would compare based on feel and performance and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) it’s not really possible to predict until you have tried it since there are too many variables, unknowns, and individual subjective perceptions and preferences involved (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If two mattresses have the same design in terms of the type and blend of latex in each layer, the same layer thicknesses, the same ILD for each layer, and a similar cover it would be very reasonable to expect that they would be very closely comparable but every difference between two mattresses in any of these specs can make a difference in how they compare that can sometimes be surprising. There is more in post #9 here about “matching” two mattresses but one of the variables is also the person themselves because some people are much more sensitive to smaller differences between two mattresses and others may not feel much difference at all between two mattresses that are very different.
I would first try and find out the type and blend of latex, the ILD of the layers, and the type of cover and quilting in the mattress you tested and then with a more detailed conversation on the phone they can help you decide which of the options they have available would likely be the closest although none of them would likely be exactly the same since they only have 3" layers and your mattress would only have two layers instead of 3.
Just to clarify as well … there is no organic Talalay … only blended and 100% natural. There is only organic Dunlop (which really isn’t different from 100% natural Dunlop except that it has an organic certification).
If I had to guess I would say that a soft 3" talalay layer on top of your base layer would likely be closer for most people than a medium Talalay layer on top (and these are the two comfort options you would have with a 2 layer mattress) but I would discuss this with Brandon. The advantage of a component mattress is that if your original choices don’t work out as well as you hoped then you can talk to them about what you would like to change and exchange a layer at a very reasonable cost. Individual layers can be shipped by courier and the cost of one way shipping is quite reasonable.
Phoenix
Most appreciative of you answering my mattress concerns. The Dunlop and Talalay I am looking at is 100% Natural, No Blends. I will check the ILD #'s and try to find the exact configuration that I am considering in the local mattress store here in Northern Ca. The store I visited was the : The Natural Mattress Store has several locations in the Bay Area in Northern Ca. Are you familiar with this company and the quality of their 100% Latex Mattress? They claim they make their own mattresses, factory direct?, which supplier.they use I do not know? They brand their mattress under the under the Eco Cloud Brand . Much thanks for helping me try to make a good choice and appreciate any further assistance you can give me …
Hi Tutrlebed,
I would keep in mind that ILD’s are “comfort specs” and don’t relate to the quality of the materials in a mattress so they aren’t always available from a manufacturer or retailer who may wish to keep them proprietary.
A mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label. As you mentioned … they use 100% natural Dunlop and Talalay in their mattresses which are both good quality and durable materials and I would consider any mattress that used these to be a good quality and durable mattress.
I would say they would generally be in a better quality/value range than most mainstream mattresses but I would make some careful value comparisons here (post #13 here has more about assessing the “value” of a mattress purchase) because there may be other similar mattresses available in the area or online that are in lower budget ranges.
A forum search on naturalmattressstore and/or a site search on “natural mattress sto” (you can just click the links) will bring up more comments about them but I would make some careful value comparisons because while their mattresses use good quality materials and have no weak links there are also other similar mattresses that use similar designs and materials that are in lower budget ranges.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix: Again thanks for answering my mattress concerns . Since I am only considering 100% natural pure Latex with no Blends , I would have to trust I am getting the best quality of latex within my budget . I set the budget at no more than $2400 and from my research I can get the price down a bit . I am considering a 6 " mattress for a reason (not the best reason I admit,lol) : The reason for a 6" mattress (2/3" cores) is that i have a bed with a low profile footboard with 2 small post that are approx 1.5 " above the footboard top rail. The foot top rail measures 6" to be flush with the top rail of the footboard . The cover and mattress pad will add approx 1.5 " ,bringing the total height of the mattress to 7.5", that will make the mattress even with the top of the posts and slightly higher with a blanket or quilt. I know the mattress comfort should be first priority over aesthetics… Originally I was considering a 9 " mattress made up of 100 non-blended natural latex, 3" X Firm Dunlop on the bottom , 3 inch Medium Dunlop in the middle and 3" Soft Talalay on the Top layer. . When the bed arrived I felt the 9-10.5" mattress was too high for the platform rail??. I went back to thenaturalmattressstore and the saleswoman suggested the configuration of 3" X Firm non-blended latex , 2" Talalay non-blended Latex and 2" Talalay non-blended soft latex, the naturalmattressstore does not carry 2" dunlop latex which would of created the mattress close to the 9" version. Frustrated I came across Sleepingorganic.com and noticed that their company has the option of 100% non-blended 3" Cores in both Talalay and Dunlop and a cover that would work out and that is how I started thinking of a 6" 2 3" core mattress non blended latex with 3" X Firm Dunlop on the bottom and 3" Soft Talalay on top as a compromise that could work and a mattress height that would be in more proportion with the low profile footboard . The Sleepingorganic.com version will save a few hundred $, plus no tax . The local mattress store will do a switch and come to the house for $60 , which is probably close to postage if a switch needs to be made . The other mattress stores in Northern Ca ( savvy,flo,foam order and not necessarily the height configuration I ideally would like?)these retailers have much higher prices for their latex mattresses. One other question: Do the zip covers fit snug? or should one consider a 100 Latex version sewn shut ? I would think a zipper cover is more versatile . I am sooo tired and frustrated…
Hi Turtlebed,
You’ve probably read it already but just in case I would make sure you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here which may save you some frustration.
There may also be other options in your area that would also be worth considering (the forum search link in my last reply includes two posts that have lists for the Sacramento and San Francisco areas which would probably include the better options that are close to you if you are near one of The Natural Mattress Store’s locations).
A zip cover can be either snug or loose depending on the thickness of the materials inside them and on the thickness of the cover but most component mattresses have tight fitting covers.
If a mattress has component layers then there would be a significant advantage to having a zip cover so you can access the layers and rearrange or exchange them either initially or down the road. There is more about the pros and cons of a mattress with loose layers and a zip cover and a mattress with glued layers with a cover that is sewn shut in post #2 here and the post it links to.
Phoenix
Phoenix: I guess what I am asking is your ( opinion ,not holding you to it ) is: A 3" X firm Dunlop bottom with a #’ Soft latex Top should give firm support with enough softness for rolling on the side when sleeping? Know you cannot guarantee it will meet my perfect expectations. Just would like your opinion if this combination makes sense to get close to what I would want ?
Hi Turtlebed,
There is really no way for me to know this because I can’t feel what you feel and there there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved. Having said that … your comments about the types of mattress you tend to prefer (a firm mattress with some softness on top) and the fact that you are in a lower weight range would both increase the odds that a thinner 6" mattress with a soft/firm combination could work for you in terms of PPP.
Phoenix
Pheonix: Much thanks for helping me talk this out ,it was most helpful. I will check out , Thenaturalmattress store again and call sleeping organic in South Carolina and make a decision . If I still cannot make a decision,: The comfort of the mattress comes first and I will consider the 9" version at thenaturalmattress store ,even though ithe mattress will be 3" above the posts. If it drives me crazy , I will sell the bed since it is brand new and got a price on a site that was $300 lower than anywhere else . LOL Enjoy the week , the Fourth of July . I will let you know the outcome of my decision when the mattress is ordered. Again most appreciative of your help
Hi Turtlebed,
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding 
Phoenix
Hi Pheonix: Still have not decided … But getting close … Would appreciate your opinion in making my final decision.
ALL NATUURAL LATEX
I tested two configurations : Foam Order: 3" Firm Dunlop on the bottom with 3" Soft Dunlop on top from
The Natural Mattress Store 3" Firm Dunlop on the bottom with 3" Soft Talalay on the top
Both mattress combinations felt good : The all dunlop was a bit firmer but still comfortable when turning to my side. The Talalay had a more cushion feel to it . My only concern would i start sinkinking and loose supportt??
Foam Order: The two latex cores are put in a organic cotton zippered case (Similar to a pillow protector) then covered in a stretch shear knit cover ( not sure if the knit cover is organic?) THe floor sample the knit cover was all stretched out and baggy , which concerned me … Foam order also has available a zippered mattress encasemennt with a wool layer , which I was considering ,until I noticed the flap where the zipper is does not lie flat and sticks out . When I noticed the problem I asked , how will the sheets lie flat and got a blank look … I like that foam order cuts their full mattresses 53" wide which fits nicely in the slatted bed frame and when added layers of bedding are added the bedding and mattress does not protrude over the side rails of the bed. I will return to Foam Order tomorrow and confirm the zipper problem
The Natural Mattress Store:
The NM Store will make a custom bed. #’ Firm Dunlop,3"Soft Talalay(Top) in a with wool and cotton . The mattress is cut 54"wide and the case is quite padded. They have another case without wool/cotton (with doctors note), but not able to test or see it .
As far as which combination of latex is best I will try both again this week.
The Foam Order mattress in the knit case I could feel the latex
With the NM Store encasement I did not feel the latex as much
Cost:
Both Stores Run Close in Price with a ticking type case
Foam Order: Cores + cotton zipper (pillow protector type case) covered in thin stretch knit type case (Runs approx $600 less)
Questions:
I am assuming it is advisable to get a ticking type case?
If the ticking type case at Foam Order cannot work out ? Where can I find an organic ticking type case 6" deep?
Do I need the wool and cotton in the ticking case?
I was thinking if I put an organic wool mattress protector on top of the mattress ,why would I need wool inside the encasement? (Have a doctors note to avoid flame retardant protection)
Decision to make:
The Foam Order combination Dulop/Dunlop feels more supportive at this point . and I can always add an inch topper of talalay if down the road need slight more cushion? The mattress will have a lower profile which I need for the type of bed fram I have .
My main concern , without a thicker zippered encasement and having the cotton zippered encasemennt (similiar to a pillow protector) covered with the thin stretch knit case , mattress protector on top : Will that be enough protection for the Latex Cores ?
My concern with the NM Store: Since this is a custom order and not one of their regular stocked configurations: There is No Return on the Mattress. There is a comfort exchange available but there would be nothing to exchange since they do not carry Soft Dunlop . if the Talalay top layer became too soft , there would be nothing to exchange the layer for .
I understand a ticking type encasement will provide more durable protection for the mattress . If i go with Foam Order where to I find a Ticking type zippered case that is 6 inches deep made of Organic Cotton
Thanks for listening: Most appreciative of any help you might have . Much thanks:
Hi Turtlebed,
Your own testing and personal experience would be the most reliable way to know whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP. It doesn’t matter how much you sink into a mattress … only how evenly (see post #6 here).
If you can’t test a mattress in person then the return or exchange policy may become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case your sleeping experience indicates the mattress isn’t as good a “match” for you as you hoped for. The mattress cover can also make a significant difference in how the mattress feels and performs.
A quilted cover can certainly affect the feel of the latex underneath it. Some people prefer this and some don’t. Thicker quilting layers will have a bigger effect than thinner quilting layers and a knit cover that stretches will have the least effect of all.
I’m not sure what you mean by a “ticking type case” but if you mean a case that uses wool quilting then post #6 here has more about the pros and cons of wool quilted covers. The choice between them would be personal preference. A good quality mattress cover is also important to protect the latex inside it from oxidation and premature breakdown. Post #3 here has some good examples of how different types of covers can affect or protect the latex inside them
The DIY component post here includes the better sources I’m aware of where you can buy mattress covers separately.
The encasement is meant to make sure that the mattress passes the fire regulations and is specifically meant to surround the mattress, help it keep its shape, and also contributes to the “feel” and design goals of the mattress. Wool is a natural material so if you prefer a wool quilted cover then there would be no need for a doctors note to get a “chemical free” mattress. A mattress protector is just meant to protect the top surface of the mattress from the body fluids that we release each night along with accidents and spills and can be easily removed and cleaned to keep your sleeping surface in a clean and hygienic condition. A mattress ticking will also usually include more wool than a mattress protector. A mattress cover is meant to be part of the feel and performance of the mattress and a mattress protector is meant to have the least possible effect on the mattress. Again these are all preference choices.
You can certainly add a topper to any mattress that is too firm is you need additional pressure relief. I would also make sure that you understand the difference between a mattress that “feels” firmer and a mattress that provides better alignment. Support/alignment is about how well your spine is alignment in all your sleeping positions and this is what you will tend to feel when you wake up in the morning (either with or without lower back pain or discomfort). A mattress that is too firm and a mattress that is too soft can both provide poor alignment in all your sleeping positions. Firmer isn’t necessarily better for the type of evenly supportive mattress that keeps your spine in good alignment. The floor for example would be much to firm to provide good support for all the curves of the body.
This is certainly a valid concern and when you can’t test a mattress in person then options you have after a purchase to customize the mattress, exchange layers, or return the mattress if it doesn’t work out as well as you hoped can be an important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase. Talalay latex is a very durable material in a suitable firmness level. If a mattress that used it in the comfort layers was a good match for you in terms of PPP and wasn’t “on the edge” in terms of softness (where even a small amount of softening could take you over the edge) then durability wouldn’t be a concern. There is more in post #4 here and the other posts it links to about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person.
Post #2 here also has more about making “final choices” when you are comparing mattresses that are both good quality, have no weak links in their design, and there are no clear winners between them.
Phoenix
Phoenix:Thanks for the quick response . I was a able to test the mattress at the Natural mattress store , they removed a layer from their 9" mattress , I think I will be better with the foam order 3" Dunlop, bottom with 3" Dunlop Soft . If over time I need a bit more cushion on side sleeping , can at Talalay soft topper. I will try both set ups again this week.
Thank you for DIY . They have 2 mattress encasements that are organic , one is a Knit Fabric and one is Quilted. I have read that Knit is better for the latex??? Will there be enough protection for the latex :
Foam Order Latex: Covered in a zippered pillow protector type case then covering that
with the DIY Knit Case or Quilted Case ?
I think you mentioned that wool in the case helps keep the shape of the latex mattress? If that is the case : Would putting a wool pad on top of the mattress inside the case ? Instead of using loose wool batting ?
I am starting to smile I am getting closer to getting a new mattress an it will be costing a lot less than I anticipated thanks to you.
Hi Turtlebed,
This would be a preference choice and some people prefer one and some the other. The links about wool quilting and about the differences in the degree of protection between different covers in my last reply would answer both of these questions. If a mattress cover is designed to be used as part of the mattress construction (and isn’t a just a mattress protector) it would generally be fine although some would provide better protection for the latex than others. This is all part of the tradeoffs involved with every mattress choice.
It’s not the wool that would help a mattress keep its shape as much as using a suitable cover. I wouldn’t put loose wool inside a mattress cover. The quilting in a cover designed to be used with a mattress will keep the wool from shifting and migrating.
There may be some even less costly options yet in the lists that are linked in the tutorial post and in the DIY component list but either way I’ll be very interested in finding out what you end up deciding.
Phoenix
Phoenix: If it is the cover that protects the latex and not the wool then I would think that the 2 dunlop cores covered in the Foam order (pillow protector type cover) then covering that cover with a DIY quilted or knit cover would be enough protection for the latex?
I understand that many people like the knit case because it is closer to the feel of the latex?
I would think the quilted Case would be more protective and provide more form on the made up bed when the sheets and blankets are tucked in . Correct me if I am wrong ?
At least I will decide on the cores this week LOL
Hi Turtlebed,
Both protect the latex to different degrees from oxidation (see the post I linked earlier here for good examples).
Both would generally provide “enough” protection for the latex. The different degrees of protection would just be one of the tradeoffs for each type of cover but in most cases either one would make a suitable choice and would be based on each person’s preferences.
In other words … I don’t think that the “protection” of the latex would be as significant a part of the choice between them as the differences in “feel” and temperature regulation between each type of cover.
Phoenix
The reason I have trouble deciding between quilted and Knit case covers is that when I saw the knit cover from Foam Order it was quite flimsy . Now that I have other resources for Knit covers that appear to be more substantial I feel more confident in considering a Knit cover . Again most appreciative of your help
Hi Phoenix: I went back to the foam order store and spent time lying on the 3" Firm Dunlop with 3" Soft Dunlop on top… After lying on this combination, I found that the mattress made up of these 2 layers set on the floor was too hard . I think the Soft layer was compressing and started to feel the firm layer?? I started thinking , I might need a layer of medium on top of the firm and a 2" topper of Soft Talalay Latex. Foam Order only sells Dunlop Latex . Does this make any sense ?
Hi Turtlebed,
Yes this makes sense. Thinner mattresses become firmer faster as you sink into them (see post #14 here about the effect of thickness) and many people find that prefer or do better with an extra 2" or 3" of latex in terms of PPP … particularly if they sleep on their side.
The choice between Dunlop and Talalay in the top layer (or any layer of the mattress) would be a preference choice and would depend on the firmness and “feel” that you prefer (see post #7 here for more about the differences between the “feel” of Dunlop and Talalay). Both are good quality materials.
Phoenix
Hi Pheonix: I will go back to the store in the next days and put the 3 toppers on the floor: 3"Firm/Medium and 2" Soft Dulop on Top which are covered in the knit case . I will get back to you with my thoughts . If I decide to go with a 2" Talalay Topper instead of Dunlop ,which resource has the best quality non blended Talalay at a good value ?