Other than Ikea Holmsta what coil bed under $700/800 to topper up on?

What size are you trying to get? Queen?

In case you haven’t, I’d also make sure to read through the guide on how to select the right mattress for you.

https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first

In it, Phoenix has done a great job discussing how to evaluate a mattress for its suitability for you (PPP) as well as materials.

We’re putting the cart before the horse a bit by pricing out mattresses… Until you know what’s right for you, its difficult to know what to even look for.

Full size. yeah, i have read extensively, hundreds of posts here, yes, he has done a wonderful job and I am much more educated as a result, hence why I haven’t bought anything yet, lol, did a thorough search when I was looking to buy a mattress a few months ago, tested dozens upon dozens of mattresses, the search yielded nothing in my area and whatever else seemed like a possibility was nothing I could geographically test so I went with a topper, the topper, @$350 and a lovely topper that i like, is no match for hell mattress so now just looking at this point for a mattress firm/medium firm but not extra/most firm category $700ish that will keep it’s comfort integrity for 2-3 years with a topper on top. I will start the true mattress search again in a few years but i can’t do it now. it was a stressful fruitless frustrating experience some months ago and I no longer can spend the $1,300 budget so I will do it again in a few years after I can save again and hopefully be in a position to go over $1,300.

So with the $700 I have now i need to find some way to get rid of what i have for a fairly good experience. It doesn’t have to be the best, it doesn’t have to be ideal, it doesn’t have to last 10 years, it just has to keep its integrity for $250-300/year over the span of 2-3 years with a max of $750 all said and done i think.

Assuming you like ikea… You might consider the favang.

With your existing 3" latex topper, that’s a 8.5" mattress. It wouldn’t be the first bed I’ve seen that’s 3" of latex over foam, so it’s a relatively popular design in budget mattresses. It appears to be 2.2 lbs polyfoam. Listed as firm. The ticking isn’t spectacular, but overall the material would be durable enough as the support core I’d imagine (and probably the ticking on the topper is more important anyhow, at least for comfort and heat).

Hi paisley,

Have you tried White Lotus Home in New Jersey? Some of their mattresses are expensive, but some fall into the $700 price range for a full that you cited, such as the Green Cotton + Foam or the Green Cotton + Wool + Foam. They might work well with the latex topper.

I almost bought my daybed/guest bed mattress from this company once, but they take too long to ship out of state, so I now have a cotton/wool/latex futon from a local company in Seattle that is in a similar style as the White Lotus models. It is definitely not hard as a rock like a very firm coil mattress would be, and I find it very comfortable for naps. White Lotus also makes a cotton/wool/latex mattress, but looks like that might be a little outside of your price range, and the foam core would probably work fine for 2-3 years.

Good luck in your search. Some of the members of this site also make affordable firm coil mattresses, such as SleepEZ, if you are willing to buy without trying first.

Edit: Looks like White Lotus Home also has a mini-showroom in Brooklyn to test some of their models: http://www.whitelotus.net/retail-locations.html

–DahliaM

Hi paisley,

What type of mattress do you have? Knowing more details about the mattress and the specific symptoms you are trying to correct with a topper along with your typical sleeping positions and body type would be very helpful and probably the best place to start.

It may be possible that a different topper can work better than you suspect and with your very light weight a softer ILD or even different thickness may also be worth considering (depending on your specific experience on the mattress and mattress / topper combination).

Without reference points that include your personal experience on the mattress and the mattress / topper combination it isn’t really possible for anyone to even make a meaningful guess about which mattress may work with the topper you have. The most effective approach is generally to first choose a mattress and then use the topper to fine tune it rather than the other way around so your circumstances are much more difficult to predict.

There are some topper guidelines in post #8 here that may also be helpful

Dreamfoam also has a pocket coil mattress here that includes 2" of 19 ILD talalay latex that is in your budget range (although I’m not certain of all the layers or if there is any other foam in the mattress) and it may be well worth talking to them about it.

Phoenix

[quote=“dn” post=26166]Assuming you like ikea… You might consider the favang.

With your existing 3" latex topper, that’s a 8.5" mattress. It wouldn’t be the first bed I’ve seen that’s 3" of latex over foam, so it’s a relatively popular design in budget mattresses. It appears to be 2.2 lbs polyfoam. Listed as firm. The ticking isn’t spectacular, but overall the material would be durable enough as the support core I’d imagine (and probably the ticking on the topper is more important anyhow, at least for comfort and heat).[/quote]

Ah, thanks so much. I think for now I’m not really crazy about all-foam mattress but I will double and triple check this weekend just to make sure because that is such a good price @ $279… Drat, too bad no coil plus 2.2lb there. Thank you.

[quote=“DahliaM” post=26170]Hi paisley,

Have you tried White Lotus Home in New Jersey? Some of their mattresses are expensive, but some fall into the $700 price range for a full that you cited, such as the Green Cotton + Foam or the Green Cotton + Wool + Foam. They might work well with the latex topper.

I almost bought my daybed/guest bed mattress from this company once, but they take too long to ship out of state, so I now have a cotton/wool/latex futon from a local company in Seattle that is in a similar style as the White Lotus models. It is definitely not hard as a rock like a very firm coil mattress would be, and I find it very comfortable for naps. White Lotus also makes a cotton/wool/latex mattress, but looks like that might be a little outside of your price range, and the foam core would probably work fine for 2-3 years.

Good luck in your search. Some of the members of this site also make affordable firm coil mattresses, such as SleepEZ, if you are willing to buy without trying first.

Edit: Looks like White Lotus Home also has a mini-showroom in Brooklyn to test some of their models: http://www.whitelotus.net/retail-locations.html

–DahliaM[/quote]

Oh man, SleepEZ has an awesome looking coil+latex. although out of the budget still def. something I’m going to look into. That Europillow top looks amazing. And it’s a really good price @ $825. I especially like the way they contructed the surface.

https://www.sleepez.com/images/sleeptrend-sm.jpg
https://www.sleepez.com/innerspring-mattresses.htm

Wish i had seen that before getting my original topper. I def. looked on the site, so possibly either that wasn’t for sale at the time or I just didn’t feel comfortable ordering site unseen. Lovely looking/sounding.

[quote]What type of mattress do you have? Knowing more details about the mattress and the specific symptoms you are trying to correct with a topper along with your typical sleeping positions and body type would be very helpful and probably the best place to start.

It may be possible that a different topper can work better than you suspect and with your very light weight a softer ILD or even different thickness may also be worth considering (depending on your specific experience on the mattress and mattress / topper combination).

Without reference points that include your personal experience on the mattress and the mattress / topper combination it isn’t really possible for anyone to even make a meaningful guess about which mattress may work with the topper you have. The most effective approach is generally to first choose a mattress and then use the topper to fine tune it rather than the other way around so your circumstances are much more difficult to predict.[/quote]

I am a 120lb side sleeping female who has a $700 to improve her situation. I currently sleep on this, aka, hell mattress:

www1.macys.com/shop/product/macybecamp-mattress-sets-grand-extra-firm-tight-top?ID=808162, with a 3" 24ILD tallalay latex topper on top.

This mattress is about 5 years old.

I was here 5 months ago when I began a search. After testing dozens upon dozens of mattress 5 months ago with after reading about PPP, and having layered toppings also on different mattresses in stores with PPP in mind I have determined in every case that a topper over “very firm”/“extra firm” is not a comfortable solution. I did give the topper only solution a shot. I first ordered an 19ILD from Brooklyn Bedding, it relieved some pain (limbs no longer fell asleep) but it was not keeping me from having pain from the firmness pain and nor did it make sleeping a comfy feeling. The people at BB suggested I go 24ILD and explained the 19 was probably compressing too much because of how soft it was over such a hard mattress so I exchanged, this felt better, it was able to cradling me more and give me less pressure from hell mattress, but is still not a good sleeping experience, the bed with the topper on it feels firmer and less pleasant than when beds I have felt in any of the over 1/2 dozen stores i’ve been to. For example, when in a store i add their toppers to a firm but not ultra firm mattress, my experience is better, In all my searches there was no topper or even 2x2" toppers over extreme firm that was something I liked. Maybe some bodies like a 19 over ultra firm, but that doesn’t feel good to me.

I feel going as supportive as I can find while still feeling comfortable is the way to go. In my search both then (5 months ago) and now I found that a less than very firm mattress with a topper on top is more comfortable than what I have now. (I mean, ideally if i could get dream mattress a topper wouldn’t be involved, but that’s not where i’m at). So lately in my testing this past weeked the most comfortable of all the mattresses that made me safely feel I had support was normal-firm/mostly-firm mattress with a topper on top and I believe that will give me a good mix of support while hopefully that less than extra firm experience will be a more enjoyable sleep. And also I feel that I might have better luck finding a short term firmer mattress than a short term more medium mattress since the firmer ones tend to have less comfort materials and therefore less to break down if I can’t buy the perfect thing right now.

During my search in NYC in ikea, The Clean Bedroom, ABC Home, Scott Jordan and Longs I have determined that at this point I much prefer a base of coil under comfort layers as I did not really like so much an all latex or all mem foam. I found the only way for me to like all foam of whatever variety was to put more than one topper on top until it was super squishy soft (something that might be something like an ILD38/28/24/19), that is an expensive endeavor while it would last me even a dozen years of it is outside my current budget so I am okay with a temporary situation even though in the end it is not as good a price over time.

So I believe that leaves me 2 options:

Option 1. Buy another topper to put over my topper over my current hell mattress. While this will be less expensive (about $200-$300 vs $600/$700) there are 3 reasons is a 2nd choice to getting a coil bed that will keep it’s integrity for 2-3 years. 1, I really do want my bed much higher. Right now my mattress alone is 13.5 inches, plus the 3" topper I have now and another topper will make it another 3", and I already have my bed on risers so even with his little foldout doggy stairs my little doggy will have a hard time getting onto the bed; I also hate my mattress with a passion am hoping $700 will allow me to get rid of it and will be able to find me a less firm than “extra firm” coil mattress that will last 2-3 years if I have a topper on top. I could purchase a 3" 4lb gel topper from Brooklyn Bedding for $169 but I am running out of faith that this will allow me to get what I want, it would be a last case scenario. There’s something about flat memory foam under a sheet that doesn’t really do it for me. But for sure it would be better than nothing. That being said, having tried in other stores multiple toppers over extra firm mattresses I have found that I preferred the feeling of toppers over regular firm or a more medium mattress. I could purchase another latex topper for $300, I do think possibly a 19 on top of my 24 will give me complete pressure relief as well as a squishy comfy feeling but when I had both of the 19 and 24ILD in my house at the same time i remember it being so high. I barely tried them both together though, maybe 5 minutes but I was focused more on which one i would choose and since the 24 was better for me i left the idea alone. i could kick myself for not really trying that for at least a night or 2. But oh well.

Option 2. Find a coil mattress that will keep it’s surface integrity for 2-3 years and put my lovely topper on top of it.

Oh cool! Just looked that up. Oh man, that almost seems perfect. I’m a little concerned about that 19 only because i’m wary of putting a 24 over a 19, but I will communicate with the company and see what options they have. Thanks!

Hi paisley,

While you’re at it you may also want to talk with them about their Budget saver Bonnell coil mattress which comes in a plush and firm version.

Your current mattress has 5.5" of polyfoam above the springs and at least 2" of this (the comfort foam) is in the softer range. The 1.5" of quilting foam would also be in a softer range but the quilting is in a tight pattern which would make it firmer. I’m mentioning this because even though they don’t provide the details of the foam in your mattress (or the specific order of the two comfort layers) they will affect how a topper feels and performs. If I had been in your shoes I would have considered trying 3" of 14 ILD because of your much lower weight.

If you want to try the “feel” of 3" of a 14 - 15 ILD talalay topper over a firmer mattress it may be worth testing a PLB Pamper with a 3" PLB topper on top of it to see how it feels for you. The Pamper also has 2" of 21 ILD talalay over a very firm 40 ILD support layer so you can use this as a reference point.

This makes good sense to me but I think that because of the difficulty of guessing which mattress may work best under your topper (assuming that the topper itself isn’t too firm for you) that one of the most important parts of a purchase decision (if it was me) would be the exchange or return options that were available to you after a purchase in case the combination doesn’t work out well for you. This may be one of those cases where a purchase from a big box store such as Costco that allows no risk returns may be a useful option. It would also be helpful to know the specifics of the mattress / topper combinations you have tried in terms of the ILD of the top layers in the mattress and the toppers (if you know them) as this may be a good reference point as well. Without more specific information about what you have tried to use as a reference point everything is really just a wild guess.

Phoenix

Will do. thanks.

ah. not quite ready to go out looking again to find a PLB (i think one store in brooklyn has it) since i hit about 8 stores last time trying almost every latex bed in the city, lol, but i think if the 19 compressed too easily as Brooklyn Bedding mentioned to me and because of that I should try the 24, then the 24 was better, I am pretty sure the 15 over hell mattress will be worse for me. But I actually tried similar combos in stores, in all the latex bed stores i went into and tried their toppers over the firmest to least firm beds they had and didn’t like soft toppers over the firmest of beds, so that I already have tried and just like how i don’t like soft over what i have now, i didn’t like that soft over very firm in the stores either, which is what those PLB’s sound like, very soft over very firm. And what I did learn from trying the dozens and dozens of beds and toppers over them as well was that my fave combo was firm on bottom, medium in the middle then soft on top. But was not a fan of ultra firm with super soft right on top. Some might, def. not I.

I can say that i have tried a 19ILD tallay over hell mattress, slept on it for maybe 5 weeks? 19ILD with and without an fairly wornout 3" 3ish lbs poly foam, and with and without a kinda old 1" dunlop every diferent combo you can get with that, literally every combo that can be done, was done. And the 24ILD every which way over under inbtwn different foams, i’m on month 4 now maybe. Right now the best I can do is i have the 3" now fairly weak poly foam over the 24ILD over the 3/4" dunlop. But when i go to a mattress store and try whatever toppers they have over things that are less firm than hell mattress they are better than any combination of anything I have or have had in relation to my current mattress. So that def. takes some of the guess work out. No extra firm. Can’t be too soft, that won’t be good for alignment. I can tolerate with my topper what would be labeled as “firm” while also not being the firmest of those carrying that label. And I def do not prefer a flat tight top. If the tufting is big, then “tight” is okay, but that is the least of what i care about, just don’t like it super flat/tight which makes the bed firmer, but as long as it’s not ultra firm i’m sure whatever is fine. For the coils, i need something with give, and that’s what hell mattress and other “ultra firm”/“extra firm” mattresses don’t have much of. To push this thing down, it takes strength and effort, so no matter how many layers they write about, it is the feel of what you will find to be the most or 2nd most firm mattress in every store i’d been to, and that was quite a few. So maybe they’re just coils from hell, who knows, but that feeling of what is typed as ultra firm, is ultra bad to me and my body. lol. Whatever the difference btwn extra firm and not extra firm, that is the issue. Should I avoid a certain gauge of coil or something as well while i look for a regular firm?

I can also add that Holmsta from Ikea is the right comfort level to have a topper on top of. it is an average firm with a give when you push down on the coils (that’s the best way I can describe it and other “firms” that are acceptable).

I mean, honestly i wouldn’t mind even something less firm underneath my topper but being cognizant of alignment and being wary of too much poly, i’m thinking i should stay clear of a medium mattress if i’m going the less expensive route.

Ah, I will look into costco, they probably have full mattresses as well as toppers. My friend is a member so i’ll see what they have. Probably not much and probably everything would have poor materials but will def. look around online regarding them.

I’ll look into the coils from Dreamfoam. The really cheap one will proabably squeak like crazy though. That’s what i found at Ikea, the Hallen was the “firm” coil for $279, which with 2 of their 1.75" toppers felt okay (for sure better than the feeling of what I have going on now) while the Holmsta was the “firm” version for $549 and did not have the squeak level of the cheap one. Same for cheap coil beds in stores, when you get sub $500 it gets crazy squeaky. hoping to avoid that.

I laugh each time I read where you’ve written ‘hell mattress’. :wink: It definitely paints a clear picture and there’s no question at all in my mind what you think of it!

Hi paisley,

The reasoning behind the suggestion was that I’m not convinced you were “going through” the 19 ILD topper and feeling the firmness of the layers underneath.

Your mattress has at least 2" of soft form on top (according to the specs) and you would probably feel the firmness of the layers below this without a topper (which is why the mattress was rated as being so firm) but it would be very unusual for someone of your weight would go through a 3" 19 ILD topper to that degree with some softer foam under it which made me think that testing the Pamper which also has 2" of soft (21 ILD) foam over a very firm support layer (40 ILD) would give you a chance to test an even softer topper and see if you can feel the 40 ILD layer below it … which would surprise me … although of course anything is possible.

Of course I know that you “hate” your mattress so from that perspective alone it may be worth taking the risk of buying a mattress to use under your current topper.

Either way your own “best judgement” and your personal experience after you have purchased a mattress for under your topper will be the ultimate test.

Phoenix

I’m a little confused. Surely what’s underneath the 15 or whatever top layer makes quite a difference, right? I often see latex for example combos of 15/24/xx, 19/(24/28)/xfirm, soft/med/firm as choices by people on this site and on latex bed makers sites for people that don’t like hard beds and rarely see 19/40’s as a favorite choice by people looking for softer. So why would it be that a 15/xtra firm would work for me equally as well as a medium over regular firm, even 19/24/xtra firm (if I go solution #1 the extra topper route) seems like it would be better than 15 over xtra firm mattress, no? I can’t be the only one to feel underneath the top layer if people are buying combos of 15/24/36 or 19/24/40.

And although I wouldn’t particularly like the height of that double topper solution, more pleasant sleep is more important than height and it will just be too bad for doggy. But I don’t see a mention of anything soft in their description, they write 3/4" resistant foam, then 2" extra firm foam, then 2" of “innovative” foam (lol, secret foam).

But I have tried a super soft latex over extra firm (in a store) and didn’t like it and found it more uncomfortable than a topper or 2 over fairly firm. It’s similar to what manu’s refer to as a luxury firm, which i didn’t care for in stores when i tried it. Some people do, but i think i’m not the only one that isn’t into the super soft over super hard, which means other people can feel it too.

Just trying to figure it out as well because it help how I proceed. And if the above is true, that a person can feel a difference btwn a 15/19 over a 40 (or even more so, 15 or 19 over extra firm coil) vs. the top layer over something less firm, wouldn’t and a topper over fairly or slightly firm be more suitable/pleasant than very soft over extra firm? And if they can’t feel that, what are all the 19/24/40 type combos about? And why do those feel better to me and their purchasers?

Srry, just very confused over what you are saying, so just trying to break everything down to figure everything out. Goal being, best feeling I can attain in the budget. Happy to pay $300 (additional topper making my bed more like a 19/24/40) to have a situation that is better than any swapping choices. And also okay with the $700 (option “swap out extra firm”) if it is better than the $300 option.

And I notice you mention “risk”, what should i be wary of? Don’t want to make a $700 mistake. But don’t want to make a $300 mistake either.

Hi paisley,

All the layers of a mattress will affect all the other layers of a mattress to different degrees and body type, sleeping position, and personal preferences and sensitivities all play a role in addition to all the specs of the mattress materials (not just ILD).

The ILD of a layer is only one of many factors that affect the “feel” and performance of a mattress and layer thickness, compression modulus, point elasticity, and other factors also have a significant effect. With a 2" layer of very soft material for example you may easily feel the layers below much more than you would with 3" layer of the same material.

I don’t know the detailed specifics of your mattress or the order of the layers but it appears to have at least 2" of softer foam in the top layers and that in combination with 3" of softer latex foam in your topper would give you at least 5" of foam that would be isolating you from the firmness of the innerspring below (assuming your mattress has the softer foam on top). In most cases this would be enough to isolate someone even heavier than you from the firmness of the layers or components below the top 5" but of course each person’s body type is unique so what may work “on average” may not apply to you. Some mattresses that use the same innerspring use different types and thicknesses of foam padding on top the same innerspring to make both ultra firm and soft mattresses.

In some cases even if you put 5" of softer foam directly on the floor (which is much firmer than your mattress innerspring or any of the layers) then some people would even be isolated from the firmness of the floor depending on their body type, sleeping position, and the specifics of the foam. There is more about the specifications that work together that contribute to pressure relief in post #4 here and in post #2 here but this can get somewhat technical and it’s probably enough to know that ILD alone is only one of many factors in mattress design that affects how a mattress feels and performs for each person in terms of pressure relief, support/alignment, and the overall “feel” of the mattress.

Phoenix

Coool. Just read through those posts and this one. I will have to read through them quite thoroughly. Really interesting. Yes, i feel like if had a 5 inche of slab foam on a floor it would actually probably feel better than what i have now, lol, So there is def. something going on other than it’s extra firm foam and mystery foam over coils if that foam is supposed to make the 3" feel fine, although steel coils i suspect are harder than a wood floor. The way they write about it though it does sound like it’s 3/4" of resistant foam on top, then 2" of extra firm then 2" of mystery foam, so no idea why but even in stores it takes 2 toppers to feel good on top of an extra firm mattress while i’m there and there’s no way i’m imagining it, and there’s no way i’m imaging the 24ILD topper feeling better over this thing than the 19ILD i had in the house at the same time, so it’s got to be something. So i’ll read through those posts and try narrow down what it is, and questions and ideas for what type of mattress I should be looking for, or what kind of topper I should add on to this one.

One more question, even with whatever foam is inside my mattress over the coils, and a 3" topper on top, wouldn’t it be common that I could feel a dfference btwn what end result level of firmness is under the 3"? Otherwise wouldn’t the average slim side sleeping female not be able to tell the difference btwn a typical “luxury firm” type things and a medium/plush medium bed? I can tell the difference instantly. When i go into a store and lie down on a typical “luxury firm”, i can tell right away that’s exactly what it is. I almost can’t imagine even females built like myself saying “nope, feels the same as the last random bed”. What am i missing there.

thanks

What if i get a 2" 19 then put a 1" shredded latex topper. Actually I think i need a regular firm mattress and softer topper but then i head into $700 + 300. Maybe a 3" ILD 19 topper over my 24 over the extra firm blech mattresss and a feather bed (lol, i’m laughing cuz it’s like, the options are endless and they could be either good for bad, but as long as my alignment is safe i think almost anything other than too soft would be better than this). I gotta avoid spinal misalignment. Could going “anything softer than this while keeping alignment” be worse than this? I’m not sure what else could happen. Could a 2" 19ILD over my 24 with a featherbed on top mess up my spine?

Sadly no latex toppers at costco, so the no risk option is out.

Hi paisley,

Even the firmest springs with an insulator over them to even out the feel of the individual coils would be softer than a floor because they compress with pressure while a floor doesn’t. The quilting layer also has two 3/4" layers not just one so the thickness is 1.5" in total. This would generally be soft foam but the quilting pattern and the way that a tighter quilting pattern compresses the foam can make a quilting layer firmer than the same foam would be in an unquilted layer.

I certainly agree that there is “something going on” and it’s not your imagination but the challenge is to figure out what and this can take some trial and error and some detective work along with some mistakes. There are many things that can produce the same “symptoms” on a mattress and sometimes it’s easy to make changes in the wrong direction and make a symptom worse or replace one symptom with a different one. Unfortunately they don’t list the specifics of the layering in your mattress or the ILD so there is no way to use this to make better guesses. Individual perception is also so subjective and depends so much on how different body types and the variations in each person’s sleeping positions interact with the same mattress that any advice based on “theory at a distance” is educated guesswork or speculation at best. This is the reason why a return policy is such an important part of the “value” of a purchase when you are in an experimental mode because there is no formula that can predict which mattress/topper combination will work best for you with any certainty … especially when there are so many unknowns.

The feel of a mattress depends more on the top layers of the mattress (which are more connected to pressure relief) than the deeper layers of a mattress and the lighter you are the less you will “feel” the effect of the deeper layers. There is a point where you could put almost anything under a thick enough foam layer on top and you wouldn’t be able to feel what was underneath it. While it’s true that lighter body types will compress the layers less … it also depends on your body shape and your weight distribution as much as your weight and height. Some people for example that are side sleepers and have wider and heavier hips may have more weight in the pelvic area and they may “feel” more of the deeper layers there than they do under their shoulders which are lighter. Weight distribution and body shape along with sleeping positions (and there are dozens of sleeping position variations) are just as important as your overall height and weight.

Pressure relief and “comfort” is what you tend to feel when you first lie on a mattress and this comes mostly from the upper layers.

Support and alignment is what you tend to feel when you wake up in the morning either with or without back pain or discomfort. This is where the deeper layers can have a more significant effect.

Durability is all about how you feel on a mattress in a year or more down the road when lower quality materials have softened more rapidly.

Since your mattress is not new it’s also possible that there are soft spots in the mattress that are allowing the heavier parts of your body to sink down more than they should be and if this is the case then a topper will only be a temporary of partial “fix”. A topper does best with an even mattress surface that has no sagging or soft spots. You can read more about this in post #4 here. This is one of the most common problems with mattresses that use lower quality/density materials in the upper layers of the mattress.

You aren’t “missing” anything … it’s just that you are sensitive to whatever is the underlying cause of the symptoms you are experiencing. Some people “feel” things that others don’t. This is what I call the “princess and the pea” vs the “I can sleep on anything” scale. All of us are somewhere inside this scale. Some people with the same body type as you could put a 3" topper on top with the same ILD that you have or say a 19 ILD and it would be perfect. Others would think it was the worst combination that they had ever slept on. This is why “theory at a distance” or formulas are only based based on averages and averages don’t work for everyone.

Again … there is no way to know this. The truth is that a 3" topper in the range of 19 to 24 ILD would work for a large number of people that are in similar circumstances as you and when you aren’t inside the “averages” then it’s really a matter of trial and error.

The one thing I would confirm is that the surface of your mattress has no soft spots and is completely even because I suspect that after 5 years the odds are high that it does and this could also be part of the problem.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=26308]Hi paisley,

Even the firmest springs with an insulator over them to even out the feel of the individual coils would be softer than a floor because they compress with pressure while a floor doesn’t. The quilting layer also has two 3/4" layers not just one so the thickness is 1.5" in total. This would generally be soft foam but the quilting pattern and the way that a tighter quilting pattern compresses the foam can make a quilting layer firmer than the same foam would be in an unquilted layer.

I certainly agree that there is “something going on” and it’s not your imagination but the challenge is to figure out what and this can take some trial and error and some detective work along with some mistakes. There are many things that can produce the same “symptoms” on a mattress and sometimes it’s easy to make changes in the wrong direction and make a symptom worse or replace one symptom with a different one. Unfortunately they don’t list the specifics of the layering in your mattress or the ILD so there is no way to use this to make better guesses. Individual perception is also so subjective and depends so much on how different body types and the variations in each person’s sleeping positions interact with the same mattress that any advice based on “theory at a distance” is educated guesswork or speculation at best. This is the reason why a return policy is such an important part of the “value” of a purchase when you are in an experimental mode because there is no formula that can predict which mattress/topper combination will work best for you with any certainty … especially when there are so many unknowns.

The feel of a mattress depends more on the top layers of the mattress (which are more connected to pressure relief) than the deeper layers of a mattress and the lighter you are the less you will “feel” the effect of the deeper layers. There is a point where you could put almost anything under a thick enough foam layer on top and you wouldn’t be able to feel what was underneath it. While it’s true that lighter body types will compress the layers less … it also depends on your body shape and your weight distribution as much as your weight and height. Some people for example that are side sleepers and have wider and heavier hips may have more weight in the pelvic area and they may “feel” more of the deeper layers there than they do under their shoulders which are lighter. Weight distribution and body shape along with sleeping positions (and there are dozens of sleeping position variations) are just as important as your overall height and weight.

Pressure relief and “comfort” is what you tend to feel when you first lie on a mattress and this comes mostly from the upper layers.

Support and alignment is what you tend to feel when you wake up in the morning either with or without back pain or discomfort. This is where the deeper layers can have a more significant effect.

Durability is all about how you feel on a mattress in a year or more down the road when lower quality materials have softened more rapidly.

Since your mattress is not new it’s also possible that there are soft spots in the mattress that are allowing the heavier parts of your body to sink down more than they should be and if this is the case then a topper will only be a temporary of partial “fix”. A topper does best with an even mattress surface that has no sagging or soft spots. You can read more about this in post #4 here. This is one of the most common problems with mattresses that use lower quality/density materials in the upper layers of the mattress.

You aren’t “missing” anything … it’s just that you are sensitive to whatever is the underlying cause of the symptoms you are experiencing. Some people “feel” things that others don’t. This is what I call the “princess and the pea” vs the “I can sleep on anything” scale. All of us are somewhere inside this scale. Some people with the same body type as you could put a 3" topper on top with the same ILD that you have or say a 19 ILD and it would be perfect. Others would think it was the worst combination that they had ever slept on. This is why “theory at a distance” or formulas are only based based on averages and averages don’t work for everyone.

Again … there is no way to know this. The truth is that a 3" topper in the range of 19 to 24 ILD would work for a large number of people that are in similar circumstances as you and when you aren’t inside the “averages” then it’s really a matter of trial and error.

The one thing I would confirm is that the surface of your mattress has no soft spots and is completely even because I suspect that after 5 years the odds are high that it does and this could also be part of the problem.

Phoenix[/quote]

Awesome. Will read those technical posts through and these ones (it all makes much more sense now) and start thinking and imagining combos based on what i’ve read and based on all the testing i’ve done i have a fair amount of feeling for what different layers of different materials feel like and do with each other, so hopefully that will lead to something good.

My mattress has been a nightmare pretty much since day 1 but since it’s getting worse i’ll check for those spots that may have broken down cuz actually, sleeping in places that i usually don’t sleep in is slightly more comfortable.

Thanks so much.

Maybe you should try a slab of plywood or something else similar that could even out any soft spots on hell mattress. Then put your topper on that and see if it’s an improvement.

:O.

You’re right, it’s not that I’m going through the latex. Yesterday I was at Ikea, again looking at mattresses and they had a latex topper on sale from the floor display, so i bough it. Yeah, whatever, it was $149 vs. the $325 it usually is. I put another cover on top of that. It was the same topper I put over the Hallen to test the Hallen, which felt good. So I put my Ikea 1.68" topper over my topper on my bed. You can’t imagine, STILL NOT GOOD! Wth. I am def. not imagining things, it still feels like there is pressure anywhere i put my body (except when i lie on my stomach), hard like once I’m lying on it for more than a couple of minutes it …I dunno, whereas Hallen under latex didn’t feel bad at all. Hell mattress has got to be the reason, or my frame or something. Changing out my mattress and my frame as soon as I can. Not sure what that will do, but I want to but since I’m already changing out my matty as it is, might as well go from full to queen anyway and start all over. Crazy. I dunno. I can’t be imagining hips feeling sore after a few minutes and awful when I wake up, I can’t be. I am, what’s that word, fluxomed? and i’m pretty sure it’s not alignment issues because it’s been cuz it’s never my back and before toppers the pain was always the same but with circulation being cut off. Although now I’m starting to get into alignment with multiple toppers, lol. I’m experiencing alignment pain since my 3 and 4 toppers. Lol. And I also know what the feeling of alignment issues are like.

Is there anything that can be deduced from the fact that the only comfortable (as in soft) sleep I’ve had is when I had my 3" poly foam doubled over to 6"? Oh it felt so lovely, zero pressure AT ALL on my hips for the first time in years. But was def. an alignment hazard. And for some reason, more comfortable without a sheet, cuz my shoulders and hips sink directly in.