Phoenix - thank you for the information. Today (actually the past few hours) we went looking at mattresses at a couple of local stores near us - the biggest being “Get-a-Mattress”. We first looked at the Tempurpedic - if we were to get that (which I don’t believe we will - because we liked the latex mattresses better) - we liked the Rhapsody the best. We then looked at about ten different Latex Mattresses and we liked Pure Latex Bliss the best. Within PLB - my wife liked the Nature 10" and I liked the Nutrition 11" - but it was so close that I don’t believe it would matter. I read a couple of other posts where some people also liked the PLB a lot but wound up with different mattresses from some of the sites on your site.
My questions:
Since my wife is so afraid to buy a mattress sight unseen (she has a bad back) - would I be able to find this exact mattress from one of the companies on your site?
Is there a reason why we shouldn’t get this mattress?
Is there another similar (very similar - almost exact) mattress that you would steer us to?
Just as a matter of interest … you can see the specs of the PLB line (assuming that it is the new active fusion line with the blue cover) in post #2 here. As you can see the Nutritioin is a little different from the rest because it uses what is called a dominant layer of firmer latex over softer latex while the rest use soft latex on top with increasingly firm layers as you go deeper. this means that even though it’s thicker than the Nature … it’s actually a little firmer on the surface and the “softness” is more underneath. This creates a different “feel”.
There are only 3 ways to “match” another mattress which you can read about in post #2 here.
The first of these involves side by side testing in “real time” which of course wouldn’t be possible here. It’s quite possible that two mattresses with completely different layering could feel and perform the same for some people because of the “net effect” of all the layers combined … even if they were different … but you could only know this with personal side by side testing.
The second would be two mattresses that used identical layers and components. This would include foam type, layer thickness, layer softness (ILD) and the cover. This also wouldn’t normally be possible (unless you purchases all the layers and a similar cover separately) because while many mattress manufacturers use the same type of latex … the exact same layer thicknesses and ILD (softness) of the PLB mattresses may not be available with online manufacturers in the exact same combinations with the same type of cover.
This leaves the third option which means that you would need to use a combination of materials that were available that in theory would “approximate” the net effect of the layering of the PLB mattress you were trying to match. Because the feel of a mattress can be quite subjective, and different people may be more or less sensitive to smaller changes, some people would say a different combination was an exact “match” while others may say it was quite different. Because subjective memory is not particularly accurate … and a mattress that you test one day can feel very different from the same mattress that you test the next day (or even later in the same day as many people who test mattresses have discovered) … it’s usually better to think in the more objective terms of how well a mattress relieves pressure and keeps you in alignment rather than trying to “match” one mattress to another in more subjective terms.
If for example you were to buy a mattress online that used four 3" layers and one of these was was 24 ILD (soft) and one was 32 ILD (medium firm) and two were 36 ILD (firm) then if you used a stretch knit cover and put them in the order M/S/F/F you would have a mattress that many people would think was very similar to the Nutrition even though the ILD’s were different and the layer thicknesses of one of the layers was different as well. Thicker layers will act softer than thinner layers so the extra thickness of the second layer could make up for the greater firmness. Some people would be more sensitive to the differences however based on their body type, sleeping positions, or sensitivities and which layers were most noticeable to them even though both may be fine in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences). Many online choices also allow you to re-arrange the layers and to even exchange layers so you can do some fine tuning that you can’t with the PLB and your final choice may end up being a better match than the PLB even though none of the combinations of layers would be exactly the same. You could even use less latex (three layers) that in certain combinations would feel very similar to one of the PLB mattresses. Even a two layer mattress could have a very similar feel depending on the layers and how they interacted together.
The goal is always to have the combination of PPP that is the best match for you and there are often different pathways to a similar outcome. Being “exact” is not normally necessary for the majority of people who will do well on a range of layering combinations that have similar PPP. In the end though … it would depend on your level of confidence that any mattress you buy will be suitable for your needs and preferences in the long term and this confidence can be based on your personal testing, more detailed conversations with other manufacturers or retailers you are considering (which I would encourage no matter which direction you choose to go), or exchange options you have available after your purchase.
From a quality point of view no. It uses high quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress so from this perspective there is no reason not to. Whether or not you should buy any mattress though and its “value” to you depends on what I call your “personal value equation” and all the tradeoffs that are involved in any mattress purchase that are most important to you (including the mattress, what goes with it, your confidence that it is right for you, any options you have after the purchase, any “risk” involved, the price, and any other objective, subjective, and intangible considerations that are all part of what you are buying). Post #12 here from yesterday has more of my thoughts about online vs a local purchase and the pros and cons of each.
In terms of exact construction, not that I know of off the top of my head no (unless you were to purchase all the layers and components separately and put them together yourself which is certainly possible and would be very close). Similar to my previous comments though there are many that could be suitable in terms of PPP that have differences in layering but this may be outside of your “risk tolerance” and local purchases are “safer”, especially if you have tested the mattress specifically and objectively for PPP (and not just it’s “showroom feel” which is not a particularly accurate way to assess your needs and preferences). Everything depends on the tradeoffs that are most important to you and each of us may have a different definition of “value”. There is no right or wrong in any of this once you have eliminated your worst options and are focusing on better ones (and the PLB would be among the better ones compared to most mainstream choices).
In my research yesterday, I was in touch with Santa Barbara Mattress - I told them that we had seen the Pure Latex Bliss Nature and Nutrition mattresses that we really liked. They told me that they actually had a manufacturing plant in Ventura (about 1 1/2 hours south from where we live) that goes by two different names: Churchill and Smith - and Spencers Ventura Mattress/Pacific Design Center. They told me that they can produce a better mattress at a lesser price. Just wondering if you or anyone else has heard of this company or better yet - if anyone has purchased from them.
You can see my earlier thoughts about them in post #2 here. Churchill & Smith, Santa Barbara Mattress and Ventura Mattress and others are all part of the same “family”.
When I talked with them for over an hour a few months ago, Karen at Santa Barbara Mattress told me they were “dabbling” with manufacturing their own mattresses so I thought I’d call again today and ended up spending over an hour talking with Churchill & Smith and even longer with Spencer (the owner) at Ventura Mattress and it’s clear that they are doing more than “dabbling” now. They are making a broad range of very high quality mattresses and doing things right. They are clearly “mattress people” with over 30 years experience in the industry and I think it would be well worth a trip to Ventura where they carry the whole line (which they don’t in Santa Barbara). They are certainly knowledgeable about the mattresses they make and the materials that they use inside them.
Phoenix - we are edging towards the PLB Nature mattress. But I am confused again: PLB has a natural latex and an all natural latex - do you know what the difference is and, if so, which one should be chosen - and why.
The “natural” talalay is blended and the “all natural” talalay is 100% natural. It’s confusing and I think their names are misleading (and many retailers don’t know the difference or which one they have). As you can see on their site … the “natural” (which is the blended) has a 20 year warranty and the “all natural” (which is the 100% natural) has a 10 year warranty because the all natural isn’t quite as durable in the lower ILD’s (softer). The blended is also less expensive. They also talk about the difference here.
You can read more about the two different types of Talalay in post #2 here and about all the different types of latex in post #6 here.
So the choice is a preference but hopefully this will help you decide which one is best for you.
We have decided to go ahead and purchase the PLB Nature mattress.
Just wondering if you are familiar with “The Mattress Expert” Store. They have the best prices but I don’t know how reputable they are. Together with saving on sales tax - it would amount to a $610 savings over the local stores here on the California Central Coast. What I won’t get for this savings is the company taking away our old mattress and no type of program that guarantees a trade-up program should we not like the mattress.
You can see my thoughts about The mattress Expert in post #11 here.
As far as which direction to go it really comes down to your confidence that you are making the best choice and on your personal value equation and which of the tradeoffs involved are most important to you. I tend to lean towards a local purchase vs online until the difference is about 20% or so at which point I would give more serious consideration to an online purchase. Of course each person may have their own number depending on the relative benefits and tradeoffs involved in purchasing from each retailer. I would certainly let the local merchant know that you are looking online so that they have the chance to give you their best price and service.
I think post #438 here should be helpful and also includes a link to the “read first” post which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices.
Great site Phoenix! It looks like I’ll probably order a 3" latex topper from Brooklyn Bedding to replace the worn out high density foam layer that came on my Natural Form bed. After reading through some of the posts I definitely feel better about ordering from them online as they sound like a great company to do business with.
Thanks again and I’ll post how the topper works out for me.
Brooklyn bedding is certainly a good choice and they also have a good exchange policy if you need it
I hope you have the chance to give us your feedback when you receive it. You are certainly replacing your HD polyfoam with a higher quality replacement.
The only thing that concerns me is that the new latex topper might be to big. If it’s much bigger than 58 x 78 the wool cover won’t be able to zip around the mattress and the cover seems a little bulky. I’ll have to call Chuck next week to find out if the cover has a zipper so I can take it off if necessary. Even though BB has an excellent exchange policy I’m concerned about the cost of shipping it back if it doesn’t fit. That’s really the only thing delaying my purchase.
Do you know of any stores in the Des Moines, IA area that carry a similar product?
As far as I know their queen toppers are 60" x 80" (standard) and the covers don’t have a zipper but they have been known to make alterations to their standard sizing so it may be worth asking. You could also ask them to ship it without the cover and it would be easy to cut to size if it was a little too big (using an electric knife is the easiest).
Some of your options I’m aware of in Des Moines that would be worth calling are in post #6 here (I don’t know the individual products or toppers they carry other than what is on their website).
This list is such a great resource, thanks so much. My wife and I stopped by Sleepy’s in Philadelphia yesterday and tried a few things out. We were getting the hard sell on a king-size Tempurpedic Rhapsody, with the adjustable base. It was actually really nice, and we’d like to get something like that, butI I am so glad we did not buy right then. It is so helpful to see how many dealers provide the same or better quality - at a much better value. Thank you for pulling all this together.
So glad I came across this website, thank you for all of the insightful information Phoenix! It was so frustrating going into mattress stores and hearing the typical pitches at each place and never actually finding any reliable and consistent information about material thicknesses, densities, quality etc. Just ordered my dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams latex mattress and cannot wait to get it! Thanks again!
My husband and I are looking for a new mattress (hopefully in the next few days) and I would appreciate your help! We have a pillowtop mattress that we have had for about 8 years, but it is not comfortable and hasn’t been for some time due to body impressions and the break-down of the mattress that seems to be common. We don’t want to go out and spend $1000 on a mattress that is going to do the same. We don’t really want memory foam. I was thinking that the new Sealy Posturepedic Hybrid might be a good solution for us, but we laid on it the other day (the firmer one) and it didn’t seem supportive enough.
Unfortunately there are not any Underground Mattress members close to us in Charlotte, NC and I don’t feel comfortable buying a mattress on the internet without testing it first. Any recommendations you have would be very appreciated!
