PLB Nature not working for us

[phoenix]

Hi SleepyDan,

It certainly seems that you are “outside the averages” because one of the combinations you have tried would most likely work well for a very wide range of body types and sleeping styles … but of course they aren’t working well for you.

I did a quick review of the topic to see if I could pick up on any clues that would be helpful and there were a couple of things that may be relevant.

While I’ve read that usually firmer is better for the back, it’s interesting that if I add both toppers for a combined 5", the upper back and hips sink down while the lumbar stays up, and my back feels fine. Someone else posted a similar experience. Sleeping on 5" of topper has other issues though, like feeling like you’re rocking in rubber jello, and on position changes being roused further from sleep.

This was an interesting comment since it seems you do well with 5" of ultra plush latex on top of the comfort layers in the nature (2" of 21 ILD and 2" 28 ILD) which would be much softer layering than most people would normally do well with. It also seems to contradict some of your other experiences which indicate that many of the combinations you have tried are too soft (for example doing well with the 3" of memory foam on the bottom of your mattress … at least for a while ,… which would be firmer overall than using both topper on the softer side of your mattress). It’s possible that with the softer top layers you are sinking in more deeply which may be allowing the latex to “fill in” and support the recessed parts of your sleeping profile more effectively (what I call secondary support) and that the only issue with this configuration is that you don’t like the jiggly “feel” but you have no actual symptoms of pain or discomfort. In other words it seems to be a good match in terms of the first two “P’s” which are Posture and alignment and Pressure relief but that it’s not as good a match in terms of your preferences (too jiggly). Is this accurate?

With this feedback it may be worth trying the 2" latex topper on top of the 3" of memory foam on the softer side of your mattress. This would still give you 5" of softer toppers and would lessen the “jiggly” feel that comes from having 5" of softer latex on top of your mattress. Have you tried this combination?

You did try this combination on the bottom of your mattress and it appears that this may have been too soft (which is somewhat contradictory to your experience with an even softer combination using both latex toppers on the softer side of your mattress working well) but given your feedback I would probably try it anyway.

I would also try removing the fire barrier in your mattress which may help with the ability of the latex to contour to the shape of your body and could improve secondary support and may also work with either your 2" or 3" latex topper (on the softer side of your mattress). This may also be worth trying with your memory foam topper.

Some of the suggestions in post #4 here may also be helpful … particularly about trying your mattress on the floor to see if this makes any difference just in case some of the issues you are experiencing are the result of a support system that is sagging or not providing suitable support under your mattress.

With either single topper, it feels fantastic for the first few minutes, but gradually there develops an uncomfortable pressure sensation. Maybe the “pushback” others have described, or maybe bottoming out on lower layers. Additionally, the toppers have a relatively consistent ability to compress my nerves. After several minutes on my back, I feel pins and needles down the back of my leg (sciatic nerve compression). On my side I get the same sensation down the outside of my lower leg (peroneal nerve compression). On my side with my arm out I get it down to my hand (partial brachial plexus compression). If I’m on my right side and put my left foot with the inside down, I get there as well (tarsal tunnel compression). Our bodies are designed in a way that these nerves are protected from compression in regular situations by channels formed by adjacent bones and muscles, but it seems that latex has a way of pushing back everywhere, including these areas that otherwise shelter our nerves. I don’t know why only some of us are affected this way, perhaps slight differences in anatomy or body weight distribution relative to a particular latex ILD.

Since some or all of these “symptoms” seem to have shown up after several minutes on the mattress it’s quite likely that careful testing in a showroom would have brought them to light as well (spending at least 15 minutes with all your muscles fully relaxed on a mattress). It’s also the resistance of a material and the amount of surface area that is bearing weight and redistributing compression forces that causes pressure issues (not pushback) because when your body is at rest there is no direction to the compression forces (the resistance forces equal the compressive forces regardless of the resilience of the material). For example you could have pressure issues on a floor which has no “pushback” at all … only resistance .

Having said that … latex is very flexible and elastic and can compress in many directions not just vertically and it’s possible that shear forces (forces that are parallel to a body surface rather than vertical to a body surface) could be part of the issue and it’s possible that a more “relaxed” and less resilient topper may work better for you. Memory foam would be an example of this and a fiberbed something like this or like this may also be worth trying (especially if it can be returned). A shredded latex topper can also be very helpful because it can also “flow around” your bony protrusions and pressure points rather than just compressing underneath them but of course this would also involve an added expense and at this point I certainly understand your reluctance to do so.

In your tutorial you emphasize the importance of personal testing. We’ve done it in a couple of local stores, including one on your recommended list. This is where we came up with the idea that the Nature was going to work great for us. Unfortunately lining up well and feeling great in the store didn’t translate well to how it felt after several hours. As I’ve described, I’ve done lots of variations at home testing as well.

If you test a mattress very carefully and “objectively” (and hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) and you are testing for more than the more subjective “comfort” or the “showroom feel” of a mattress then in “most” cases and for “most” people it would end up being “close enough” to your actual sleeping experience that only relatively minor find tuning may be necessary if anything is necessary at all (see post #4 here). Of course nothing is infallible and there will always be a smaller percentage of people that have have some history of having difficulty in finding a mattress that “works” or have more challenging circumstances (such as health or back issues or an unusual body type) where the odds of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for would be higher and in these cases the return or exchange policy can be a much more important part of the value of a mattress purchase.

I’d certainly be up for trying a spring mattress with with quality comfort layers. However, I’m not sure any local stores sell any that have quality comfort layers. They all seem to have the S companies or some questionable brand that no one else sells. Also, in-home overnight testing and fully refundable returns have become a priority.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

There are many people who also do well on a latex/innerspring hybrid (see post #13 here) and some of the better innerspring/latex options I’m aware of (including a few component mattresses) are listed in post #2 here and the post it links to but you would need to check their websites or call them to see if any of them have a dealer close to you if you wish to test them in person.

Phoenix