PLB Nature not working for us

[phoenix]

Hi SleepyDan,

Regarding reviews, I didn’t mean that in the sense of individual experiences, but rather general research on the topic of latex beds. Our choice of the PLB Nature came about through: 1. We tested latex beds in a local store, checking for comfort and alignment as you described, and thought we came up with the right one. 2. We’ve read about all the positive qualities of latex such as durability, dust-mite resistance, etc. and watched videos like Matt’s about the PLB Nature (youtu.be/oPscBX3DM1M). 3. Pete at mattressexpert.com, who seems very sincere and knowledgeable, wrote that with the Nature and Pamper “I never hear a complaint.” 4. Pete recommended the Nature also since it’s on the firm side and we could soften it up later if needed. 5. We have been comfortable in just about any other bed we previously slept in (except for sleeper sofas and some futons), so we didn’t really even think there could be a bed that would be so uncomfortable to us.

The Nature is generally a good “average” choice for all the reasons you mentioned since it’s not really soft (like the Beautiful) and it’s not really firm (like the Pamper) but not everyone fits the “averages” and not everyone does well on or prefers a latex mattress. It would be unusual for anyone that has sold more than just a few of any particular mattresses to have “never had a complaint” no matter what type of materials or which type of mattress it may be. It would be something like jumping off a 20 story building and saying “so far so good” as you are passing the 3rd floor … because it’s just a matter of time. The law of averages always catches up to everyone sooner or later.

I’m going to go ahead and keep testing, but it’s strange and concerning to find that so many people on this site and at whatsthebest-mattress.com describe testing of many combinations of layer ILDs, toppers, covers, zone inserts, etc., over months and even years, and it’s often not clear whether they actually found a good solution in the end.

There are many people that “try too hard” to like latex or try to “force” a latex mattress to work and in many cases the options they have available or that they try may not be the ones that could make the mattress “work” for them. In some cases they were successful and in some cases they weren’t (on both forums) but once you go past a certain point then you can also reach a point of diminishing returns no matter what combinations you may try … especially if you haven’t clearly identified “why” the mattress or layering combinations aren’t working for you. There are also some people who just give up out of frustration even though “in theory” there may be some combination of layers that would have ended up working for them because there are just too many possibilities and small increments of change for them to try them all (not to mention the cost that would be involved).

Do you know if the Nature can be taken apart easily and customized with various ILD configurations? It seems the Nature is basically S/M/XF. I’ve tried it alone and with one or two soft toppers and other experiments. I’m pretty sure my problem is lumbar sag. At this point my back (mid thoracic) is pretty sore and I’m very tired. I’ve done a different experiment each night for weeks. I’m going to take a break and sleep at my mom’s guest room to recover a bit. Next I’ll probably try a thicker pillow and no topper since I have been sleeping with my arm under my usual one and one of your posts indicated that was a sign of too thin a pillow. If that doesn’t work, then maybe a different topper as you suggest. I’ve been testing with 2" and 3" PLB latex toppers.

The PLB layers are glued together but it can be done although it’s difficult and may result in some damage to the latex layers (you can see some suggestions for taking apart glued layers in one of the links in the mattress surgery post here).

A better initial suggestion though would be to take a more slow, gradual, and incremental approach and I would sleep on any new combination for at least a few days (or preferably longer) because if you make changes too quickly then your experience on each combination can be an anomaly and you may not be able to identify a “pattern”" in your experience or accurately assess how your experience changed in comparison to the previous combination. In some cases making changes too quickly in and of itself can cause issues because your body doesn’t have enough time to adjust to each new combination.

I don’t know your weight but the PLB toppers are also very soft (in the range of 14 - 15 ILD) and this low an ILD would usually be more suitable for lighter body weights and they may be too soft for your mattress and your body type and you may do better with a higher ILD.

The first step I would take though (once you take a break for a while to let your body recover from all the "experiments you have tried) would be to sleep on just the mattress for a week or two and see how your experience and symptoms change. How your sleeping experience and symptoms change compared to your previous combination (or combinations) is much more useful information and a better reference point than just deciding on whether a particular combination “works” or not because the changes in your experience and symptoms between different combinations can act as a pointer to help you assess whether you are changing things in the right “direction”.

It may also be worth removing the fire barrier that surrounds the latex layers in your mattress since this may make a difference in how well you sleep on just the mattress alone (the fire barrier is quite thick so removing it may help the latex to contour to your body shape more effectively and can soften up the feel of the mattress) and there isn’t any harm in removing it if you can no longer exchange or return the mattress.

Perhaps time to try a memory foam one? Any particular one you’d recommend?

The choice between memory foam and latex is more of a preference choice rather than a “better/worse” choice. There is more about the pros and cons of memory foam vs latex in post #2 here but the most reliable way to know which material or topper you tend to prefer would be based on your own testing or personal experience. For some people memory foam may make things worse and for some it may make things better depending on the specifics of the memory foam and latex toppers they are comparing and on their own individual needs and preferences.

The first “rule” of mattress (or topper) shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress or a mattress/topper combination and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or topper or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress or mattress/topper combination will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or better yet your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

While it’s not possible to make specific suggestions because of all the many variables involved that are unique to each person and your own experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress/topper combination will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP … there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to that can help you use your sleeping experience along with the other information I linked as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of as well.

Choosing a suitable topper that is a good combination for both you and the mattress you are using it on (different mattresses will affect the choice of topper that works best for a particular person) can be almost as challenging as choosing a mattress that doesn’t need a topper in the first place so the exchange/return policy for a topper you purchase can become a more important part of the “value” of a topper purchase just in case a topper you purchase doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and you need to return it or exchange it for something else that is thicker or thinner or firmer or softer.

Before you start experimenting with different toppers though or start cutting your mattress apart I would work with what is already available to you and if you can provide more specific information about how you sleep on just the mattress by itself and how your “symptoms” change (and you have also confirmed that the foundation you are using isn’t contributing to the issues you are experiencing) then you will be able to use your experience on just the mattress alone as a reference point for comparison to help decide on the next step.

Trying different pillows is also a good idea but as you make mattress changes you may find that you need thinner pillows with softer combinations (because you will sink in more) than with firmer combinations.

Phoenix