Please Help

I’ve been doing research, reading reviews, and shopping at retail mattress stores for over a month now and I can tell you that this has been one of the most awful experiences I’ve ever had. It’s gone further than making me cynical, it’s outright making me paranoid. I have no idea what reviews are engineered and paid for, don’t trust anything any salesman says, am terrified of chemical health issues now, and am convinced no matter what I do I’m going to get ripped off. If any industry needed a regulation overhaul, it’s this one.

Meanwhile my Simmons Beautyrest Vanderbilt, which isn’t even five years old, is warped and breaking my back. And it has a polyurethane foam pillowtop that’s probably giving me cancer.

I’m 280 pounds, more broad-shouldered and muscle-thick than fat, so that isn’t going to change much. I’m single right now and nobody sleeps with me. I’m a side sleeper who sleeps with a pillow between his knees (I often wake up with lower back and shoulder soreness).

All I want is a king-size, medium softness, durable mattress that isn’t going to collapse on me in three years and that won’t cause me pain or give me long-term health issues from chemical dispersants. I live in the St. Louis area. Please, just tell me what mattress to get. If it’s an all natural latex bed that’s going to run me five grand, that’s fine. I just don’t want to get ripped off and physically suffer.

P.S. – I bought two Thomasville 100% Talalay pillows from the Bedroom Store yesterday. The salesman was throwing around 95% pure latex numbers, but he didn’t really know. Of course when I got home, the first thing I noticed on the package was the fine print that said Made in China and the urethane is flammable warning. I don’t see a Certipur or any other certification claim on the packaging and they even smell a little funny.

The Bedroom Store is the outlet chain for Boyd Specialty Sleep who operates under the Thomasville brand, as you probably already know. I read one of your posts where you shared an email chain with Boyd in which they stated everything was safe and certified, but weren’t trying hard to go into much detail about it (if that’s their best on customer service, I’ll pass on their beds). Should I bring these pillows back?

Maybe this all sounds conspiracy theory and mental, but the class action lawsuit in California against Tempurpedic is telling me different. I hope in this post I’ve made it clear that I’ve done some homework, including part of your buying guide. I know the difference between the Talalay and Dunlop processes and understand the importance of layer densities. What I really need is someone to guide me through the deep forest of BS and tell me who in the St. Louis area sells a bed worth buying. You would literally be saving my life, thank you.

Hi tonycerv1,

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful, I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

It sounds like you’ve read the tutorial but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The only reliable way to to assess the “safety” of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification (see post #2 here for more information about some of the more reliable “safety” certifications). If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable “safety” certification then for most people they would certainly be “safe enough” … regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.

While it may be more information than you are looking for … there is also a lot more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, “chemical free”, and “green” mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer “how safe is safe enough for me” and that can help you decide on the type of materials and components you are most comfortable having in your mattress or on the certifications that may be important to you. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

You are probably fortunate to get 5 years out of a major brand mattress. All the major brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (and the major retailers that focus on them as well) along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).

There is also more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges (in the mid 200s or higher) and/or that sleep with a partner that is in a lower weight range and has different needs and preferences

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial … most people in higher weight ranges will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn’t compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than “about an inch or so” of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density … particularly in the upper layers of the mattress.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the St Louis area (subject to making sure that any specific mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier in this reply) are listed in post #6 here and this topic may be helpful as well.

If you are looking at online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may be worth considering.

If you are interested in latex mattresses that are sold online then one of the links is to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online and many of them also sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex (including organic Dunlop latex) that have a wide range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that that would be well worth considering.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

If your pillow is made from latex it would certainly be “safe enough” for most people.

While I certainly wouldn’t be as worried as you are about “chemicals” in your mattress because there are many choices that use certified or safe materials … hopefully the information and links in this reply can help you with how to choose a mattress that meets all your criteria.

Phoenix

I went to Meyer Bedding and my man Scott Fisher there was great. He’s going to make me a nice spring bed for half what I would have paid to the scamsters. And guess what – it actually has two sides like they used to make loool!!

Time will tell if it’s all it’s cracked up to be, but I was thoroughly sold by his family experience in the business and the no BS way he told me how they would make the bed. The old style way they make their box springs is rare these days too. They’ll even haul my old stuff off and give it to local church charities. I feel really good about it, a lot better than I did last night obviously.

If anyone in the St. Louis area, or anyone in general, is lucky enough to read this article, don’t waste your time with big brand/big store mattresses and get ripped off on whatever one-sided, individually wrapped coil nonsense they’re selling you on. Go to a small local shop and have them make you one THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY.

Thank you Mattress Underground!!!

Hi tonycerv1,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

It’s good to see that you connected with a good manufacturer and you certainly made a great quality/value choice. I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

So I’ve had my mattress for two and a half months trying to ‘break it in’ and it’s still way too firm. Nothing like the mattress I laid on in the shop. Pretty bad for a side sleeper and I’m consistently waking up with sore back muscles and even headaches. It’s actually worse than the 5 year old Simmons I had before which was falling apart.

I called the dealer who said they don’t have a return/exchange policy ‘that far out’ and basically told me to get a topper. Part of this is my fault – I should know by now to never get my hopes up about anything anymore. I’m going to go find the cheapest topper I can now, at least I won’t be too invested when that doesn’t work out either.

I’m not mad at you. But I would take Meyer off your list of suggestions for St. Louis. They suck.

Hi tonycrv1,

I’m sorry to hear that the mattress you chose didn’t work out as well as you hoped for but their suggestion to purchase a topper is a good one. You purchased a good quality and durable mattress (unlike most of the mainstream major brand mattresses made in the industry). It’s not all that unusual to choose a mattress that is too firm and needs some fine tuning.

If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress then a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief to your sleeping system but the only way to know for certain whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.

There is more information about choosing a topper and a link to the better online sources I’m aware of in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

Because of the uncertainty that can be involved with purchasing a topper where you can’t test the combination in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase and any costs involved just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

If a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP then having a separate topper also has the advantage of being able to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper layers in the mattress (which is very likely because the upper layers of a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time.

They make high quality two sided mattresses and I can’t think of any reason to take a good manufacturer that is highly regarded and has been making mattresses for over 100 years off the list because one of their customers made a mistake and purchased the wrong mattress. If I was to use whether a customer purchased the wrong mattress as a criteria for being on the forum lists then there wouldn’t be any retailers or manufacturers left on any of the lists because every retailer or manufacturer has some customers that don’t make a suitable choice in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and the suitability of a mattress has nothing to do with the quality and durability of the mattress.

Phoenix

I appreciated your last post up until the end there. I shouldn’t have said ‘they suck’, that was belligerent maybe, but I’m pretty burnt out on buyer’s remorse.

Just to clarify – there was no ‘bad choice’ involved here. I specifically told them I wanted one as close as possible to the one I laid on in the showroom, which was much softer than what I actually received. I told them I was a big guy and a side-sleeper and couldn’t handle a firm bed – yet that’s exactly what I got.

Two weeks after the purchase, I called them about it and was told I needed to give it some break in time. Two months after the purchase now, I’m being told they don’t have any type of exchange policy for this and I need to look for a topper on Amazon. He didn’t even ask me who I was on the call this morning – that’s how completely uninterested they were in doing anything about my situation. That’s flat out just bad customer service, regardless of any bedding expertise anyone has or how long anyone’s been in business. From what I understand, Casper would have shipped me a topper for free in similar circumstances, for a much less expensive mattress purchase. I’ll just call them next time.

You can do whatever you want to your own website, but this is a relevant experience to anyone who may be interested in a similar purchase at the same company. It’s also relevant to the company in case they’re interested in improving themselves. So I’m documenting it here in the place that I found them.

I don’t need any reply to this, thank you.

The combination of a firmer innerspring mattress with a latex topper is a very popular and comfortable combination that I use for heavier individuals. I find this combination more durable than building the softer foam into the mattress itself.

Assuming your new mattress used higher-density foams of a higher IFD, and this is a two-sided product, you would only have gone through one rotation on each side of the product so far and the bed itself wouldn’t have begun to reach a “broken-in” state if it is truly using higher-quality componentry.

Instead of investing in the “cheapest toper you can,” consider taking a look at a good plush latex topper for your product. It will provide some nice durable surface comfort for you while you sleep on your side, allow you to be more comfortable while your new mattress breaks-in, and you’ll still have the deep support you need as a larger individual from your mattress. Many people, myself included, prefer the traditional manner of using a quality topper to achieve surface plushness.

Hi tonycerv1,

There are many other forum members that will read this topic over time so I usually reply to posts with an eye to clarifying some of the comments in them so that other members can benefit and learn from the conversation as well.

I think you made a good quality/value choice in terms of the quality and durability of the mattress but this is a very different issue from making a choice that is suitable for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP.

There is also more about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you (and others of course) make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

There are also quite a number of reasons why a mattress may feel different at home than it felt in a store and many of them are listed in post #3 here.

This was good advice because there will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials like latex can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so (and on some occasions even longer).

With a local purchase and for the majority of people … careful testing (using the guidelines in the tutorial) and some good guidance will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be “close enough” so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here).

For those that are making an online choice where they can’t test a mattress before a purchase, have a history of choosing mattresses that are unsuitable for them even if they have tested them, have body types or health considerations that are more challenging and make choosing the most suitable mattress more difficult, or that for whatever reason are more uncertain about whether their choice is “right” for them … then the options you have available after a purchase to fine tune the comfort or support of the mattress or to exchange or return the mattress or individual layers can become a much more important part of each person’s personal value equation. Of course the other side of this is that exchange or return options are built in to the cost of a mattress so they can add to the cost of a mattress and the majority of people who don’t return or exchange a mattress or a layer are the ones who pay for the minority of people who do (see post #3 here and the posts it links to).

While I wasn’t on the call so I can’t make any meaningful comments about what was said or “how” it was said or understood on either side … I do agree that it’s always a good idea in terms of good customer service to be polite and courteous on a phone call with a customer. Even if what they told you was accurate information … sometimes “how” something is said can be just as important as “what” is said.

For some people the exchange or return policy of a manufacturer or retailer you are purchasing from (and any costs involved) can certainly be a more important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase and each person’s personal value equation than it would be for others but this is something that is an important part of your research to find out and make sure you are comfortable with before you make any mattress purchase.

I completely agree that any of the pros and cons that are part of purchasing a mattress that would make a suitable, durable, and good “value” choice based on all the criteria that are important to different people is certainly relevant to others and I always appreciate the comments and feedback of the members here but some of these choices and trade offs aren’t as “black and white” as many consumers believe and different people can have very different criteria that are important to them when they purchase a mattress.

My goal is always to make people aware of “how to choose” so that they can take all the different criteria involved that they may not otherwise be aware of into account when they are deciding on which mattress to purchase and to the degree possible replace hindsight and the possibility of buyers remorse with foresight and research into the pros and cons of all the different factors that can be involved with any mattress purchase before the purchase is actually made.

Phoenix