Please recommend me some good retailers in Orange County, CA

[Mike949]

Hi Yenal,

Thank you for following up on your purchase experience. I’m not surprised that you had a bad experience at Ergo CC in Irvine. Although we haven’t visited that store, just knowing where it’s located there on Michelson & Jamboree at Park Place, where retail space is a premium, means they’re going to be pushing very pricey products. I’m glad to hear you walked out the door when the rep didn’t bother listening to you at all with respect to your mattress budget - he sounds like another ex used car salesman.

It sounds like you had a great experience at America’s Mattress in Orange. I did see them listed on the PLB list of retailers, although the AM website doesn’t list the PLB brand at all (same as Ergo).

We’re going to continue looking at other retailers that sell high quality latex mattresses, including others that sell PLB. I’m hoping we can find a good solution within the next week or so.

Cheers,

Mike

[phoenix]

Hi Mike949,

It’s hard to imagine any part of the fabric becoming semi-liquid being a good thing (even if only at a molecular level). It seems to me that would introduce humidity, and even if there’s a mattress pad and sheets between our skin and the mattress fabric containing the phase change gel, I don’t see how that extra humidity would be a good thing.

I’m not a materials scientist so this is a laymans understanding but phase change materials that are used in bedding are “micro-encapsulated” which allows for thermal conductivity and still allows the phase change to occur. This means that the phase change from liquid to solid is inside an enclosure and any “liquidity” remains inside the enclosure. There are quite a few good articles online about them but the wiki article and this article are both good explanations and go into a fair bit of detail. In the case of bedding the phase change is liquid/solid but other phase change materials that are used in other applications can also be liquid/gas (such as in the case of evaporation from a liquid to a gas which releases and disperses heat).

You also talk about ventilation, “breathability”, the wicking away of moisture, temperature, and microclimates in that above referenced posting. Can you be more specific about what you’ve seen & heard that works well for the full package including padding/protector, and other bedding components? I know wool is a great material for breathability, but if you have any specific info on what you’ve seen work well for the various bedding components, that would be helpful.

For good ventilation and temperature control you need something that can wick moisture from the skin and store it away from the body so it can disperse into the atmosphere. Wool (and other “hair” type fibers) is very good at this because it can hold up to 30% of it’s weight in moisture and remain dry on the outside of the fiber. It can then slowly release the moisture into the atmosphere. Wool also has the additional benefit of being water resistant so that if something spills on it then it won’t go right through and will be absorbed up to the limits of the wool to store the liquid. In certain weights and levels of densification … it is also an effective fire barrier.

In general … cotton and other plant fibers are good wicking materials but don’t store as much moisture before they feel wet while wool or other types of “hair” are good storage materials that can absorb moisture and stay dry against the skin.

Breathable foams also allow some storage of moisture and their open cell nature allows more of this moisture to evaporate rather than being trapped.

So as a general guideline, breathable foams or components in the comfort layers, natural fibers or breathable foams in the quilting layers, wicking fabrics that are natural or “semi-synthetic” (like bamboo and other rayon types) in the ticking, stretch cotton or wool in a mattress protector, cotton, bamboo, or linen in sheets and bedding can all be very effective.

Of course this is just the “short” version and there is as much to learn about different fabrics as there is about mattress materials and there are some people I know that are much more knowledgeable about all of this this than I am and could talk about the technical specs of various fibers and fabrics all day long. At some point I may convince them to write some articles for the site.

It’s interesting too because at one point I was a long distance cyclist and would bicycle a hundred miles a day or so when I was touring and various different types of fabric layering was an important part of thermal regulation and staying dry. In general we used cotton next to the skin for wicking and wool cycling clothing outside the cotton to absorb the moisture and stay dry. The layers were designed to be able to add or remove a layer at a time and the properties of each layer (wicking or absorbing) were important for overall comfort in the face of ongoing exercise, perspiration and evaporation. Silk is another material that is highly breathable, can absorb about 30% of its weight in moisture without feeling wet, and is a great temperature regulator (in both directions) just like wool.

So hopefully this “short version” will give you some good guidelines for what to look for in the “layers” of your sleeping system for the “coolest” sleep possible.

I’m going to continue looking at various latex mattresses, but right now anything that uses Talalay GL is way ahead of the game in my book. Please let me know if you’re aware of other manufacturers/retailers selling mattresses that use T-GL. I’m already researching it a bit using the Latex Intl website, but I’m guessing you may have some inside information on it.

Talalay GL isn’t widely used yet outside of the PLB or at least the new names aren’t but you will more often find descriptions from various manufacturers that say “Celsion” which is Talalay GL fast response and you will also find NuForm which is Talalay GL slow response without the phase change materials.

One of our members also sells Talalay GL toppers here.

SleepLikeABear also sells Celsion in all available firmness levels and in different thicknesses.

Another one of our members uses NuForm in one of their mattresses here.

Google searches on Celsion or Nuform will bring up more hits than google searches on talalay GL.

Phoenix

[Mike949]

Thanks Phoenix. You’ve provided me with the information I was looking for regarding Talalay GL, and a good primer on the “keep cool” bedding materials aspect I was asking about. I also appreciate your explanation regarding the use of phase change material in fabric, how it’s “micro-encapsulated”, and the links you provided to additional info on the subject - it’s all very helpful. We really liked the PLB mattress sets that use the fast response T-GL (Celsion), more so than any of the slow response stuff. Everything about those mattresses felt great - except the price. I’m hoping that I can find something similar in “cool comfort” and support that’s much more affordable - hopefully far less than $5K out the door for mattress, foundation, and frame.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Mike

[Mike949]

Hey Yenal - Do you have any updates? I’m assuming you’ve taken delivery of your new PLB Beautiful that you purchased from AM in Orange. How was the delivery experience? How has the mattress been working out for you and your wife so far?

I ask because I’m still trying to decide where to purchase from. I visited AM last weekend, and spoke with Heather. She and her husband have a very nice showroom, and she was very helpful. Their prices are also pretty aggressive, in line with what you experienced.

Please let us know about your experience with delivery, setup, and the overall experience with your new PLB when you get a chance.

Thank you!

Mike

[Mike949]

We finally did the deed today and purchased a Pure Latex Bliss ActiveFusion Beautiful Cal King (mattress only) from Paul Niederer of Cost Plus Mattress in La Verne, CA (http://costplusmattress.com). We got it for well under $3K, and it should be delivered in about a week. We visited Paul at Cost Plus for the first time a little over a week ago, and were impressed with his old fashioned way of doing business, his knowledge of mattresses, his industry experience, and the quality of his products. Nevertheless, we continued to shop around so that we could make the most informed decision possible, which led us to purchasing from Paul today.

We needed only the PLB mattress since (after some investigation) it turns out that our Stearns & Foster box set is very well constructed, consisting of a multi-layer steel grid (heavy duty bars and wire) on top of several wood beams (looks like 2x6). The only odd thing about the box set is that they’re 83 inches long instead of the standard 84 inches for a Cal King. I doubt that having the PLB mattress hang over the end of the box spring by an inch (or each end half an inch if we center it) will hurt the mattress. Our existing metal frame is the heavy duty type, so that can stay as well.

We decided to make the drive to La Verne (again) and purchase from Paul (Cost Plus Mattress) for several reasons:

…Paul is 100% focused on customer satisfaction, honesty, and doing business the old fashioned way.

…He’s been in the mattress business for 25+ years.

…It’s a family business (I met his nephew at the store today).

…He’s all about educating the consumer about mattresses, comfort, and support, making sure you get a durable, high quality product that fits your needs, without the hype or pressure selling.

…His prices are extremely reasonable (you’ll see what I mean), especially when compared to the prices seen in the large chain stores.

…He offers a 100% Money Back Guarantee (it’s in plain view on the website). I also have it in writing on the invoice. Paul says that if we don’t get anything out of it, he doesn’t want anything out of it. He really does business the old fashioned way.

…Paul is a veteran that served our country in both Desert Storm and Desert Shield.

…You can learn more about Cost Plus, Paul, and his background at the following URLs:

…http://costplusmattress.com

…SOMETHING TO SLEEP ON: It’s Not the Name of the Mattress, But What Goes Into the Name That Counts

By the way, Paul didn’t ask (or even hint) for me to write a review for him. I’m doing it because I think he deserves it, and because more people should know where they can go to get a quality mattress from an honest, knowledgeable, family run business, at a very reasonable price.

I hope this helps someone else looking for a good mattress in Southern California.

Cheers,

Mike

[phoenix]

Hi Mike 949,

Congratulations on your new mattress

Thanks also for such an in depth and detailed review. I also had a great conversation with Paul at Cost Plus and there is no doubt he is knowledgeable and focused on educating rather than “selling” his customers which is great to see. Besides the PLB latex lineup … he also carries Stress-O-Pedic and Kingdom mattresses which are both smaller regional brands with better than average value.

It was interesting as well because he comes from a family with a “history” of manufacturing mattresses and he told me he would like to one day go into making his own and he clearly has the knowledge to do a good job if he ever goes in this direction.

It’s typical that box springs are a little narrower and shorter than the standard mattress sizes so they can easily fit inside a metal frame or bed.

It’s great to see someone who does good research and ends up with a quality mattress that fits all the parts of their “value equation”!

Phoenix