Pocketed Coil & Latex Mattress

Phoenix,

Thanks for the comments. If I decide to avoid the hassle of getting a new Eco Terra, I’ll probably go to a 3/8" or 1/2" board in lieu of the 1/4". Also understand your comments on comfort. Of course I realize you couldn’t answer those more rhetorical questions on comfort, just thinking out loud. Enjoy the weekend.

Phil

Just wanted to add my two cents since I ended up ordering the medium-firm through Corey that I ultimately ended up ‘returning’ (which I’ll elaborate on briefly). The mattress seems really well built, it was both a little too soft and not support enough for me to keep. The first few nights were miserable but I noticed that coils were landing between slats on my frame and weren’t being supported since there’s nothing beneath them aside from the mattress casing (which also made moving it akin to moving a 120+ pound jello mold). It improved a bit moving it to the floor, but I was still waking up with a lot of lower back pain. My partner couldn’t handle it either, and she’d resorted to sleeping on the couch.

After trying out a few mattresses, I can say that my back is just not a fan of zoned coil systems, although they do sound great.

The return process just involved a lot of back and forth. I was told initially that I could box up the mattress and they would pick it up, but Corey wanted to try to find a local charity to take it, which he was unable to do. In the end, Ecoterra opted to not have the mattress sent back to them and refunded the money and told me I could keep the mattress or otherwise do with it as I pleased. Luckily I did know someone who needed a mattress or I would’ve been stuck with a king mattress that I really didn’t want to keep.

Fwiw-- I’ve since purchased a firm Amorebed and am happy with that decision two weeks in. I went with the firm and requested it with latex layer instead of memory foam (they’d switched to a memory foam for their default but said they were still able to make them with latex). It’s just shy of being hard as a rock which surprised me based on all of the other firm online mattresses I’d tried.

Hi Phil P,

That sounds like a good plan. Have a good weekend as well.

Phoenix

Hi poetailor,

I’m sorry your Eco Terra didn’t work out for you.

How far are your slats apart on your bed? With beds using a polyfoam base, most manufacturers will want 5" or less. The Eco Terra does have the fabric of their mattress encasement under the springs, and there is also a glued non-woven fabric layer on the bottom of the innerspring unit as well.

Just to clarify, the innerspring unit in the Eco Terra is not zoned – it just has perimeter coil edge system. But there is no zoning in the middle of the mattress itself.

I’m glad you were able to get your refund, and it sounds like your friend ended up with a nice free mattress.

Did you order the “firm” version of this bed? The Amore Bed uses pocketed springs like the Eco Terra, but the configuration is different and they are only 4" in profile, so hopefully over time that will meet better with your preferences.

Phoenix

Hi, I wanted to join this conversation and get some advice as I just purchased an eco terra mattress in a medium. I’ve only slept on it a couple of nights, but there seems to be a big difference between sleeping closer to the side vs. the center of the bed. Is that my imagination. I know there are springs along the sides, but it’s a king size bed. It doesn’t seem right that dead center would be the most comfortable. Thanks!

Hi ktndesigns,

My Eco Terra is also a king w/ 3" of Talalay at an ILD of about 24/26 which is probably the softer end of a medium. It’s too soft for me and I was arranging for an exchange to something firmer, ILD around 32 but through some misunderstandings that’s not going to happen. This is not a negative reflection on Eco Terra’s customer service which has been very good.

But to your question, I don’t recall ever trying out the middle of the bed and comparing it to the edge. There’s suppose to be a double row of firmer springs at the edges to give it edge support but at 210 lbs get a a bout a 5" deflection. Our bed had flex slats 3" apart and I put a 1/4" piece of plywood on top in an attempt to even out the flexing and firm up the mattress. It helped some. Since we’ve had it 3 months, it’s developed an slight mound in the middle, or slight sleep indentations, and the tendency during sleep is to roll you toward the edge and then back until you’re centered on your half of the bed. I kind of attributed this to a combination of soft latex and/or thickish mattress pad could be causing some indentation as well. But the indentations look equal and my wife in 110 lbs.

Good luck.

Hi ktndesigns,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

The Eco Terra uses a pocketed spring unit that has slightly firmer and smaller springs along the edge (two rows of 15 gauge steel) that is slightly firmer than the 16 gauge steel springs used in the rest of the innerspring unit. But this isn’t something that is normally perceived as a “big difference” along the edge, but more something that helps to minimize product roll-off along the edge.

You didn’t mention what your mattress is being placed upon, but I would start by evaluating your bedframe / foundation combination, or your platform bed, and make sure that everything is flat and firm, with no dipping in the center. You can also test out the adequacy of the surface under your mattress by placing your mattress upon the floor and then testing it out to see if you have the same sensation as when it is on your bedframe / foundation or platform bed.

Also, your mattress is only a few days old and there will be some “settling” and loss of false firmness in the product, and being hand-built there can be variations in the joining of the side panel to the top panel and the cut of the top panel, and over time this can even out as well.

I would first investigate everything under the mattress to make sure that isn’t the source of your complaint, and if that checks out then I would see how the product “breaks in” and if this sensation goes away. If it doesn’t, then at that point I would contact Eco Terra directly and receive their advice.

Phoenix

Hi, thank you for your quick response.
We’ve placed the bed on our old king box spring (two twin size pieces). Since it’s a bit old, we did purchase 3/4 inch plywood to increase the support (two pieces placed crosswise to cover the whole frame). It was what eco terra recommended so I figured it would suffice. Thoughts?

I’ll definitely give the mattress some time to settle. Maybe the cushion in the middle will start to spread out.

Hi Phil,

Do the indentations bother you? Seems early for body indentations to be forming already. Do you think it’s a quality issue? Thanks.

Hi Phil P,

Thanks for your comments.

A ¼" piece of plywood might still allow for some sag under the areas where you sleep, so over time you may wish to keep an eye on that. Additionally, the wool used quilted to the cover will compress a bit over time where it is used as the mattress loses some of its “false firmness” (wool can become up to 30% firmer over time). And a mattress pad, depending upon the material and thickness, can contribute substantially to perceptions of “sinking in”.

Phoenix

Kntdesigns,

I’m sorry I used the term indentations even though I used “slight”. As Phoenix says on Jun 8 @ 16:05 it could be the compression of the quilt top and the thick mattress pad. The mound I referred to could be the result of the center support being slightly higher than the outer edges and the 1/4" plywood I’m using is thin enough to flex to create the center mound. In general, I don’t think it’s a quality issue but there’s always the possibility of a bad batch.
We had a bad experience with an all natural latex mattress from Fibex Inc, an Indiana company, where one or 2 of the 3 layers in a 10" bed failed after 6 years and caused a definite “canoeing”. The company did step up and made an monetary adjustment but we donated the bed soon afterwards because it weighed a ton and was a bear to change the sheets.

I hope your Eco Terra works out.

Phil

Phoenix,

By mutual consent, I still have my Eco Terra to do what I wish. I’m contemplating a little DIY and say go to a company like Pittsburg Mattress Co. that’s not to far from me, to see if they can remove the top quilting and replace the existing 3" cushion of 24/26 ILD latex with one with a much firmer layer. The bones of the mattress are good and I might like to try this before I donate the mattress. Have any of your contributors gone through a similar experience or have you run across this approach? After all, this would not be much different than how the Arizona Mattress Co. constructs a mattress per their video. Finishing it off with a zipper in lieu of the bead would be ideal.

Phil

Hi Phil P,

If you find a local manufacturer willing to “take a look” inside of your mattress and see if they are able to customize the product, I think that certainly is an excellent option to pursue. Pittsburgh Mattress Factory should easily be able to undo the chain stitch on the tape edge and then they’d be able to assess the inside layer of your mattress. As long as the latex layer isn’t glued down excessively (which it shouldn’t be), they should easily be able to replace the layer with a higher ILD and then sew everything back up with new welting. The wool quilted to the covering of course would stay in place, as that is a permanent part of the quilt panel. I don’t know if they’ll be able to attach a zipper to what you have, as that might result in the border panel being removed from the mattress as well.

I’ll be interested in your results.

Phoenix

Hi poetailor I have a medium Amore Bed with the memory foam (the new model) and the foam holds too much heat. I have spoken with Amore about having it made with the latex top. How has your experience been with the Talalay latex? What firmness did you get? Amore Beds told me the latex had a strong smell which is one reason they switched to the memory foam. I found that odd since latex is supposed to have a lesser smell/off-gassing. I’d appreciate any feedback to help me with my decision making. If I return this one and get the latex they wont give me another return guarantee. Not sure if I should just move on to another mattress. Thanks!

Hi nico4321,

Whether or not this was truly a reason for their design switch, it would not be a common comment for people to complain about the smell of latex, especially as it compares to memory foam, which tends to have the most complaints about odor.

Phoenix

Nico4321,

We too didn’t like the heat issues of memory foam but understand the gel infused foams are much cooler.

With regard to the latex, there is absolutely no smell or out gassing as far as we were concern on day one or 6 months later, at least with the latex from the Eco Terra or the one from Dream Foam we had for 30 days (really too soft). My wife’s sense of smell is almost like those drug sniffing dogs and if there was a hit of a problem she would have voiced it.

With regard our Eco Terra with 3" of Talalay and the Liggett & Pratt springs we still have it and I still think the 22- 24/26 ILD is to soft for us and our back issues. When I lay on my back I immediately have some strain/discomfort in the L-5 area but that could be from my back issues in general. Beasue of that I sleep most on one side or the other. We recently did a 2 week experiment with sleeping on an old Comfortaire w/ a 2" Talalay insert (I think 'firm ILD" since it weighed about 25 lbs for the queen size) pumped up to a firm level. In general I think we did a little better, not much shoulder and lower back issues but still some. At this point I’m not sure what we’re going to do w/ the Eco Terra king. Bed shopping is a huge hassle, especially the shipping in and shipping out and as far as local stores go for testing, 15 minutes is hardly enough time to make a decision to spend $1200 - $1800 and to know “this is the one”. Comments I’ve seen like “best nights sleep in 20 years” I take w/ a grain of salt unless they’d been sleeping in a castle dungeon. As I believe I’d posted before, I’ve been thinking of opening the bed up and replacing the 3" of latex with something firmer. One gentleman suggested 2" of Dunlop because it’s generally firmer and 1" of very good gel foam top like copper infused for the heat dissipation. Again, a huge huge hassle and it might not be any great improvement. We have to face the fact that our backs are the problem and not the bed. However, I do have a feeling the Liggett & Pratt coil spring are the problem as they’re not firm or stiff enough and/or there maybe should be some combination of latex and foam.

Good luck with your hunt.

Phoenix - Your comments would also be appreciated.

Hi Phil P,

I’m sorry your Eco Terra isn’t working out for you. :frowning: I know it can be difficult when you already have pre-existing back issues to select a mattress.

The Eco Terra uses a pocketed spring unit from Leggett and Platt that has slightly firmer and smaller springs along the edge (two rows of 15 gauge steel) that is slightly firmer than the 16 gauge steel springs used in the rest of the innerspring unit. This is generally considered a strong innerspring unit, but it would be that you don’t prefer the more conforming feel of a pocketed spring unit and your back may respond better to something that is slightly firmer, such a double knotted offset design.

For a queen 2" blended Talalay topper around 25 lbs, that would roughly equate to something in the mid 4 lb density area, which would put the Talalay piece you tested in your experiment in the mid 30 ILD range based upon Talalay Global’s approximate density ratings for their blended Talalay.

You certainly could experiment with a firmer piece of latex in your current mattress, should you decide to go that route. It also may be that you desire not only firmer but a slightly thicker comfort layer, It also could be that you prefer a firmer innerspring unit. Unfortunately, and especially with a preexisting back issue, I can’t diagnose what might be an appropriate route for you. I wish I could!

Phoenix

Hi, I also have a queen Eco Terra mattress that I am finding too soft in Medium. What would your recommendations be for a latex topper to give it more support and a little more firmness? I read on here that it’s harder to make a too-soft mattress more firm (easier to make a too-firm mattress softer.) Thank you.

Would you know how I can make my Eco Terra Medium mattress more firm with more support using a latex topper? Which one would you recommend? Thank you. I realize it’s harder to make a too soft mattress more firm than making a too hard mattress more soft. But I am looking for suggestions in specific latex toppers - brand, type, firmness. Thank you.

Hi jaishreema.

While you can buy a firmer topper and add it to the current matters, it won’t make the mattress more supportive or fix any deep support or alignment issues because the topper will just bend into the softer layers below. Typically, adding a firmer topper to a softer mattress would work only for those that are looking to give their current mattress a crispier feel so that they don’t sink into it as much and don’t need to fix deep support. You can find a bit more about pressure relief and support, about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

It sounds like Eco Terra’s medium firm option may have been a better choice for you and I suggest that you contact the company to see if they would be willing to exchange it for the other comfort option they offer, If the medium-firm option will be too firm it would be much easier to fine-tune and fix it with a topper without compromising alignment. You can read more about their refund policy here

Depending on your needs if you wish to try adding a topper then there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

Another option that I would not recommend would mattress surgery which involves removing and replacing your 3" Talalay comfort layer, or generally other components that are too soft (instead of adding to them) which in most cases can be much more difficult to do.

Phoenix