Pure Latex Bliss "Romance" failing after 2 years

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi,
Phoenix your site is amazing - obviously you are a fantastic resource.

I just found the site and have read for several days to research our next mattress. , and now need to post to get your feedback on our current mattress which is a 10" PLB “romance” which I understand is the manufacturer’s “Nature”. We purchased this at Mattress X-Press with the Nature’s Image “havana” king box foundation.

About us: my husband is 6’1" 280 pounds (heavy guy with a big beer belly) and I am 5’8" 160 pounds with pear shape. We are in our 60’s. We both sleep mostly on our sides, and sometimes on our backs.

My husband can sleep on anything, but we bought this mattress in Dec 2011 when I started having hip pain on our 11 year old innerspring (the last few years with plywood under it). I had to talk him into the latex but after showing him all my research (not on TMU) I convinced him to purchase mattress and foundation for $2500, which he considered outrageous. But I told him it’s probably the last bed we would need to buy. Ha.

Now I really feel dumb because after only 2 years this mattress is causing me hip pain, and my butt feels like it is sinking too far into the foam. There are obvious indentations on both sides, and the middle is higher and more firm, but only one of us can sleep in the middle so that’s not an option :frowning: We have turned it over, which has not helped. Unfortunately I just read today that we should have rotated it 90 degrees regularly. The next step is to pull it off the foundation and check that, and perhaps sleep on the mattress on the floor for a few nights.

I hope that there is something we can do before we purchase another mattress, as my research on this site leads me to consider another latex. Needless to say, this would be a very hard sell to my husband. He wants to go back to an innerspring for less than $1000.

the PLB contact told me about the 3/4" “rule” for replacement, it appears to me the indentation is just under that, but I can have the store come out to check. So if it’s just under 3/4" I guess I let my husband sleep on it to get it down to 3/4" while I sleep in the guest room? :S

From an earlier post it appears this mattress is:
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric
Latex BLISS Milliken’s Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
2" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
1" Natural Talalay Latex 28 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD
1" Support Stabilization Base

Rather than replacing the entire mattress, perhaps we could ask PLB to give/sell us the top 1-2 layers with higher ILD? Or buy them elsewhere? If we do get a new mattress it looks like Bamboo Bliss might work but it’s higher cost than (my husband) wants to spend.

I would appreciate any advice. thanks in advance

2

Hi laraby,

I recently posted the following to another poster who was having similar problems to yours and that I had also experienced. I think women must have centers of gravity that are heavier in the hip area than most men, thus the sinking in too far. So I have copied and pasted the following info for you as well. Maybe it will be of some help. I am sleeping wonderfully since I made this change, and it saved me lots of money and the stress of trying to make exchanges, or in your case, buying a new bed. Of course, this will only work if you can get into your mattress cover between layers, or if you have a topper:

I had a similar problem to yours with my new bed, a 100% natural Talalay mattress with a blended Talalay topper of ILD 19 over the top. I felt like my hips sunk in too far, and I woke with lower back aching and some shoulder aching, too. I tried swapping layers around with no improvement and finally went back to my original configuration with a very inexpensive and easy fix. I’m now sleeping great and waking with no pain. You might want to give this a try before giving up and exchanging beds. This is what I did. I bought a couple of yoga mats from Walmart. They were both 68" long, 24" wide, and one was 3mm thick, the other 5mm thick. I put the 5mm mat crosswise on the bed under the topper between it and the mattress in the area of my hips. I put the 3mm mat crosswise under the topper under my shoulder area. I put the two mats all the way across the king size bed, but it could be cut to size if your husband doesn’t want it on his side. My husband hasn’t noticed it, but he can sleep on anything. When I had slept on this for a few weeks and was sure this was my solution, I taped the two mats together so they wouldn’t shift around. I used a decorative duck tape for that. The two mats together cost about $20. You might not need both mats, but I found that when I didn’t use the thinner one under my shoulders, I woke up with some shoulder-upper back aching. Anyway, good luck with your bed, and I hope this might be of some help in making your too-soft bed just right.

Some additional info here: Our configuration from top to bottom is 19ILD rejuvenite (blended talalay) topper over a mattress from Arizona Premium consisting of joma wool quilted on zippered mattress cover, 28ILD 3" comfort layer, and a 6" split core of 28ILD (my side) and 32ILD (his side) in an Eastern King size.

Since buying my yoga mats, I have noticed them for sale elsewhere as well. TJ Maxx has a good price on them (similar price to Walmart) plus they have a bigger selection. I noticed they had one that was 1/4 inch thick which would be good if you needed even more firmness than I did. Target sells them too, but they are about double the price (a name brand).

gtwflorida

3

Hi, thanks for idea but we don’t have a topper.

4

Hi laraby,

While latex is the most durable of all the foam materials … all foam materials will soften and impress to some degree over time and softer layers will be more prone to this than firmer layers. With higher weight ranges it’s usually a good idea to choose a mattress with firmer layers because the layers in your mattress are already on the soft side for your husband’s weight and any foam softening can put you outside of the “range” where a mattress provides the comfort and support you need more quickly even though the latex itself hasn’t reached the end of its useful life and would still be fine for someone with a different body type or sleeping position (see post #2 here).

For those who are only comfortable with softer layers it can be a good idea to add them as a topper over a firmer mattress or to choose a component mattress where the individual layers are replaceable so that if the softer layers soften sooner than the others they can be replaced without having to replace the entire mattress.

There are some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful for a mattress that has developed soft spots or “virtual impressions”.

Zoning can also be useful for body types where the weight is more concentrated in certain parts of the body and there are some zoning suggestions (similar to gtwflorida’s suggestioins) in post #11 here but to do this inside the mattress layers (vs under the mattress) you would need to do mattress surgery and I would only consider this as a last option if there are no other options available to you because the layers in your mattress are glued and you would need to remove them very carefully with a sharp knife or utility blade which would void any warranty coverage that you have.

I doubt that PLB will custom build a mattress with a different design than their regular models for a warranty exchange and I think it’s much more likely that they would exchange it for one of their regular models.

Phoenix

5

Should we really be rotating latex mattresses regularly? It seems like rotating wouldn’t make much difference - you’d have to rotate 180 degrees, and you’d end up sleeping in the same spots.

I could see that flipping the various layers over might help spread out the wear, if you have a layered mattress.

6

Hi eek,

The materials in a mattress will soften, compress, or break down faster under the heavier or more weight concentrated areas of the body than under the lighter or more recessed areas of the body so I think it’s a good idea to rotate or flip (for a two sided mattress) a mattress on a regular basis to even out the wear and softening as much as possible yes.

You can see the suggestions I would follow here.

Phoenix

7

It seems we just purchased a mattress with too soft top layers and will have to try to get a replacement from PLB. I do like a firm bed, and wish I had understood more than “latex=good” when we bought the PLB Romance. I did speak with someone at PLB before purchasing and discussed my husband’s weight etc. The Mattress X-Press salesman was not knowledgeable about latex.
Mattress surgery doesn’t sound like a good option. Does it make sense to follow gtwflorida’s advice and purchase a topper and yoga mats to put under it?
I’d welcome your suggestions for the next mattress. Am I correct that latex is our best bet, not memory foam? If latex, what ILD should I be looking for in the top layers? Or perhaps we should consider an innerspring with a latex topper that we can replace easily considering my husband’s weight and my sensitivity?

thanks again for your help

8

Hi laraby,

This would be a preference choice but either way I would either focus on higher density memory foam (5 lbs or higher) or firmer latex. Latex would have the edge in terms of durability.

Again this would be a preference choice but regardless regardless of what type of support system you choose or prefer I would make sure that it was durable enough and suitable for your husband’s weight and your body type which in the case of innersprings would mean more steel and/or lower gauge wire (you can read more about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here). If you use a firmer support core or “base mattress” than you are comfortable with by itself then you can add a topper as a replaceable comfort layer so if it softens more quickly than the rest of the mattress it can be easily replaced without replacing the whole mattress. The “ideal” would be to test them both together so you don’t have to guess which thickness and ILD topper would work best with your mattress. A component mattresses with a zip cover where you can remove and replace each layer individually would also have a similar advantage. A latex support core would likely have the edge in durability over most innersprings although the support core of a mattress isn’t usually the weak link of a mattress.

I wouldn’t focus on ILD alone because it will depend on the design of the mattress as a whole and your own preferences as well. ILD isn’t the only thing that affects the softness of the comfort layers or the mattress. The thickness of the layers and the mattress itself will also play a role along with ILD. The goal is “just enough” thickness and softness in the comfort layers to relieve pressure in all your sleeping positions. As a very rough guideline I would probably look for something with comfort layers in the range of about 32 or so and then add a topper if this wasn’t soft enough for you but again this would depend on the thickness of the layers and on your own personal testing because thicker layers “act” softer than thinner layers (see post #14 here). It will also depend on the firmness of the deeper layers in the mattress as well which will also have some effect on how soft the layers above them feel.

There are also some mattresses that have a “split” layering where each side can be individually customized for a couple with different needs and preferences (see the first part of post #2 here) but PLB doesn’t offer this option.

Every layer and component in a mattress or sleeping system will have some effect on every other layer to different degrees so it can be somewhat misleading to have a preconceived idea about one particular spec (such as ILD) when there are other parts of the mattress design that will also have an effect on how suitable a mattress is for each or both of you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Phoenix