My wife and I are considering a bed purchase and need of some information/advice. For background info, we both have back problems (she has had spine fusions and I am getting close to that point), she is a side sleeper that gets pressure points in her hips and shoulders, I sleep on my back and sides (and occasionally stomach) and generally wake up achy and stiff. We are both thin but very tall (she is 6ā and 140# and I am 6ā6" and 190#). She likes soft beds for her pressure points, and while I had always thought I liked firmer beds for support, I have been finding the firm beds to be less comfortable and therefore have been leaning toward a soft feel that still has support.
Anyway, we seem to have different taste but both like the feel of a latex bed. We were at a mattress store trying out different brands and liked the Pure Latex Bliss āBeautifulā with a PLB topper and, just out of curiosity, inquired about it in a cal king (the size bed we already have). The salesman said that if we liked the PLB Beautiful with a topper, we would probably like the Pure Latex Bliss āWorldās Best Bedāā¦ and they just happened to have one in Cal King on hand that had been ordered accidentally instead of a king, so they would give us a āspecial dealā at $3000 including tax, delivery, and throw in a PLB pillow. My wife immediately fell in love with the bed and wanted it, I felt it was a little soft but still comfortable.
My questions are 1) Is this really a good deal? 2) How soft is this bed relative to others and will it become softer over time (i.e. if I think it may be a little soft now, can I foresee softness being an increasing problem down the road)? 3) Is Pure Latex Bliss a quality brand that I can trust to hold up over time and stand behind their product/warranty if there is a problem? Lastly, 4) are there any considerations that I am overlooking before I dive into a very expensive mattress purchase?
Thank you very much in advance for any help, advice, or insights anyone may be able to provide!
Pressure points are fairly easy to identify if a mattress is too firm in the comfort layers and preventing good circulation (just like when you sleep on a floor itās quite clear where the pressure points are) and spinal alignment issues are also fairly simple to identify (such as lower back issues that come from a mattress where your lumbar is out of its natural alignment leading to the dreaded lower back pain) but overall aches and pains are usually a muscle or joint issue (depending on where the pain is coming from) and can come from a mattress that is either too firm or too soft. If it is too firm you can twist away from the pressure and sleep in less natural positions which can stress and tense the muscles and joints and if it is too soft you can also stretch muscles and ligaments or they will remain tense over the course of the night as the body fights to stay in its neutral alignment. Both are a sign that the body canāt ālet goā and completely relax and recover and let the mattress do the work itās supposed to do.
The key is always to find the right balance between your pressure relief needs and your alignment needs and both too firm and too soft can cause discomfort and pain.
Both the PLB Beautiful with a topper and the PLB Worlds Best Bed are very soft mattresses with very thick soft comfort layers. They could be suitable for side sleepers but they could be quite risky for back or stomach sleepers IMO. I would be very careful with both of these and make sure you had tested them to make sure they provided good alignment in all your sleeping positions.
The āvalueā is good compared to the regular prices for the PLB Worlds Best Bed (or at least the minimum advertised prices) but still not in the best value range for a 12" of latex mattress. I would also question if you needed 12" of latex although to some degree this can be a matter of preference.
Compared to their normal prices ā¦ yes. It would be even better if it included the foundation with 4" of latex but I doubt that this is the case. Compared to some other options you may have (depending on where you are or on your comfort level with an online purchase) not quite as much.
This is the softest mattress they make with the thickest softest comfort layers. All foam materials will get softer over time even though with latex the process is slower. Softer materials will also soften faster than firmer materials because they are mechanically compressed more on a regular basis and like all foams ā¦ soft latex is not as durable as firmer latex. The firmest it will ever be is when it is new and if this is an issue now it will become more of an issue as time goes on.
You can āfixā a mattress that is too firm with a topper but itās much more difficult to āfixā a mattress where the core layers are too soft or where the comfort layers are too thick and soft because it involves removing layers or adjusting deeper layers rather than adding layers.
The durability of a mattress has nothing to do with the brand but with the construction and materials that are in the mattress (and all mattress manufacturers have access to similar materials). PLB is owned by latex international which makes the Talalay latex that is used in many of the mattresses in North America and the quality of the materials is good (latex is a premium material)
I wouldnāt count on any warranty though because foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it is not covered by any warranty and a warranty has little to nothing to do with how long a mattress will last for any particular person (and it is relative to the person and how much foam softening they can tolerate before comfort and/or support becomes unsuitable for them even though it may still be fine for someone else).
All warranties have exclusions that include how much of a permanent impression there has to be in the mattress with no weight on it before a warranty claim can be made (in the case of PLB itās .75" which is better than most) but in most cases when a foam softens and you feel like you are sleeping in a hole, the foam will still come back close enough to level to be excluded under the warranty. Warranties are only about defects in construction and donāt cover foam softening.
Again ā¦I would make sure you had tested this very carefully for alignment in all your sleeping positions (itās unlikely that this mattress would have any pressure point issues). This article and post #11 here may help with this.
I would also compare it to other similar local latex options (depending on where you live and on what is available in your area) to make sure it is the best local value and also with some of the online choices in post #12 here to make sure that you are comfortable with the price compared to other latex options you have available. In general I would consider that a 20% premium for a local purchase that you can test for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) would be worth a local premium over an online purchase which may have a lower price but where you wouldnāt be able to test it first. Of course each person can decide on any premium they think is worth it based on their own risk tolerance, the options and benefits provided by different manufacturers or retailers, and their personal āvalue equationā.
If everything checks out and if you are completely comfortable with the value and suitability of this mattress and that it isnāt too soft (or likely to get that way very quickly) then it would be āgood but not greatā value and I would certainly consider it if it appeared to be your best option.
Thank you so much for your detailed reply, Phoenix! The bed we will be getting for $3000 (including tax and delivery) is the Cal King PLB Best set with the 4" latex-topped foundation, so I guess it was the softest possible combination that I tried and had concerns with. In light of your reply, I went to another store today that carries the PLB Worldās Best and tried it at length with both the latex-topped foundation that we tested yesterday and with the regular (hard) foundation. It was amazing how much of a difference the foundation made - it felt like a completely different bed! My wife loves the softness with the latex foundation while I find the latex foundation too soft, but it was very comfortable and supportive to me with the hard foundation. The salesman suggested I try to softer latex foundation since it is more expensive, immediately on hand, and he told me the common tendency is to get a bed that ends up being too firm and they would exchange my half for the hard foundation for free (since it is cheaper) if I do not like it. Does this sound like a reasonable idea? Any concerns you think I may be overlooking? Thanks again!
This would certainly increase the value of your purchase but you donāt sleep on āvalueā and no matter what the value of a mattress purchase ā¦ if it doesnāt match your needs and preferences it would have little value to you.
I certainly wouldnāt agree with this and I personally think that the biggest āmistakeā that consumers can make is to get a mattress that is too soft which can feel great in a showroom but not so great when it doesnāt provide the support and alignment that they need in the longer term and they wake up with back aches. You can always adjust a mattress that is too firm but there is little you can do if you buy a mattress that is too soft in the support layers or too thick and soft in the comfort layers.
4" of extra latex can certainly make a difference to some people but I would tend to trust your experience and instincts. If the mattress on a firm non flexing foundation works better for you in a showroom ā¦ it will probably be better in the long term as well. Donāt forget that alignment issues are not as obvious in a showroom but can become a much bigger issue in regular use.
The exchange would seem reasonable to me because as they mentioned the latex foundation is less costly than the solid foundation. My only concern would be that there would be a transition area in the middle of the mattress which would make the two sides different which may be apparent but like a more traditional split layering this could be a worthwhile tradeoff for the benefits of having some degree of customization on each side of the bed.
What works in your favor is your lighter weights and the fact that latex is a more supportive material than other types of foam but even here your weight distribution can make a difference. Iām also tall and relatively lower weight (6ā 5.5" and 195 lbs) and my weight is relatively evenly distributed so I can āget awayā with softer mattresses than someone who had more of their weight in the lower end of their body would do well with. Even here though if I was looking at the setup you were considering (even without the latex base) I would make sure I was as confident as possible that it really did provide good alignment and would spend enough time on the mattress ā¦ fully relaxed in all my sleeping positions ā¦ to improve the odds in my favor. I also donāt spend time on my stomach which would be more risky with this type of sleeping system.
In any case ā¦ your own sleeping experience will end up being the best judge and even though my instincts say that what you have experienced in the showroom is probably correct (that the system is better for you without the latex foundation) ā¦ at least you have an option if you do want to make the exchange. While it would lower the value of your purchase somewhat (unless they were willing to refund the difference if you exchanged) ā¦ it would still be good value IMO for what you would have.
Sometimes risks are worth taking if you still have options available if they donāt quite work out
If Phoenix will allow me to I would like to put my 2 cents worth in since I am also a Latex Bliss dealer and a latex mattress manufacturer. Since the Bliss designs do NOT allow you to change out the inside latex layers I think the better idea would be to go with a much thinner design and add their topper to the system. The Bliss 3" fast recovery Acitve Fusion topper runs in the 14 to 16 ILd range - extremely soft - and that is the same material used on the top of the Beautiful and I believe the Worldās Best as well. The problem is, as Phoenix pointed out, if the topper softens up (and it will) over time then where do you go? By having the topper separate you can always buy another one later on down the road keeping the firmer base core design in tact. Iām a side sleeper myself and have this topper on my bed. When my wife had stomach surgery and had to sleep with our adjustable bed fully elevated I threw the topper on the floor and slept like a baby for over 3 weeks. At your weights itās doubtful either one of you will even penetrate very far through the top 3" making the base layer or layers not that important. The Pamper model is firmer and only 8", add to it the 3" topper I mentioned and I think you will not only save money but also have an overall better performing bed. If you get the firm foundation on your side and the latex foundation on her side she will get that slightly softer feel she is looking for. Just one option of many.
Thank you, both of you, for your advice. My wife and I tried out a number of PLB mattresses and the only ones that both of us found soft enough was the Beautiful and the Best. The Beautiful seemed to only be an option with a topper for my wife to not have any pressure points, which is why the salesman suggested the Best. I was fine with the Beautiful but found the Best a little soft with the latex foundation, but it seems to be great with the solid foundation for me and great for my wife with the latex foundation. I didnāt know much about these beds and had a bunch of questions, but I think the Best is going to be a good option for us and, as Phoenix pointed out, I have some options I can exercise to make it firmer or softer (I understand the core will still be soft, but itās the only thing that my wife seems comfortable on). It felt really good for the time I spent on it today, and it seems to be a good deal (I understand there is a difference between a good deal and good valueā¦ all inclusive, it is still $3000!) but we havenāt found any better options for us and this seems to work well. Only time will tell, but I think weāre going to dive in and hope for the best. Thank you once again!
Iām curious to know how you and your wife are liking your PLB mattress setup eight months later. I have a PLB Worldās Best on the latex foundation with a three inch topper being delivered this weekend (I set out just to buy the topper - eek!) and would love to know what your experience has been.
My wife and I live in San Antonio and we just tried out some Pure Latex Bliss beds today- we settled on the āNatureā model with a 3" topper and the price we were given was 2499 delivered and one pillow. Some questions we have:
Are there better value mattresses around us that we should give a look or is PLB just as good as others?
Is this a great price or can we get it cheaper somewhere else?
The āvalueā of a mattress purchase depends on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you and on the specifics of the mattress you are comparing (in terms of PPP as well as the materials and design and the other options or benefits that go with the purchase). There are certainly other mattresses that contain 9" of Talalay latex (the same as the nature) that you may prefer either for price reasons or because the design is more flexible or itās a better āmatchā for you in terms of PPP but woud also depend on whether you are only comfortable looking locally, what else is available to you, or whether you are including an online purchase as a possibility
Some of the options and possibilities Iām aware of in the San Antonio area Iām aware of that also make or sell latex mattresses that you may wish to compare to the Nature/topper combination are listed in post #2 here.
There is also a list of some online PLB dealers in post #32 here that you may want to talk to to make some value comparisons or do some price matching with the Nature and topper.
The list of some of the better online retailers and manufacturers that also offer latex mattresses with different designs and options that may also be worth considering or comparing with the Nature (based on your personal value equation) are listed in post #21 here.
Phoenix
PS: I switched your post to a new thread that was more specific to your question
Thanks for your help. The value Iām most concerned about is price and comfort. We like the comfort of that bed but we also loved the comfort of a Renewal Refined iComfort. Is there a similar mattress to the latex one for a cheaper price? Iām worried a bit about purchasing a bed without laying on it first, but is latex the same no matter what? Is there a better company to go with instead if PLB?
Have you read the tutorial post here? It has most of the basic information, steps, and guidelines that will answer most of your questions.
Post #6 here has more about the different types of latex. The Nature you are looking at probably uses blended talalay latex (there is also a 100% natural version but these are much less common and have a 10 year warranty instead of a 20 year warranty). Latex also comes in a wide range of firmness/softness levels from very soft to very firm.
That would depend on what you mean by similar. There would be similar mattresses in the sense that it had the same amount and type of latex (9" of blended talalay) and there would be similar toppers as well (with 3" of blended Talalay) but the softness/firmness of each of the latex layers or the topper may be different and they would also have different covers so it may be a better or worse āmatchā for you in terms of PPP and they could be very different from each other in terms of how they feel even though the type and quality of the materials are the same. You would need to either test the mattress in person if it was local to see if it was similar (or better) in terms of PPP or choose a mattress based on a more detailed conversation on the phone if you are looking at an online purchase. I donāt keep track of prices at individual stores or online retailers (that would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with) so you would need to look for similar mattresses locally or online and then compare the prices to the Nature (making sure that any comparisons are for the same size and āmattress onlyā prices so you are making apples to apples comparisons).
I would look at some of the options you have available locally to see what they carry so you can compare them with the Nature and whether they should be included as one of your āfinalistsā. The online list I linked in the last reply also includes several manufacturers that sell latex mattresses and toppers that use blended Talalay latex as well (some may be less than the Nature with a topper depending on the size you are looking at but again you would need to compare the prices). Some of these offer ākitā mattresses with individual latex layers and zip covers that can be re-arranged or exchanged after a purchase so you can customize the mattress after a purchase if your initial choice doesnāt work well for you. Some of them also have a very good return policy. They will also provide you with some good guidance on the phone about which of their mattresses are most likely to be suitable for you āon averageā but of course each person would need to decide for themselves if an online purchase is something they would be comfortable considering with or without the ability to customize the layers or return the mattress. This is all part of the tradeoffs that are part of each personās personal value equation.
PLB is a good quality mattress and is generally ābetter than averageā value compared to most mainstream choices but may not be in the ābest valueā range compared to some of the other latex mattresses you have available to you either locally or online.
[quote=āMatchmeeā post=28044]My wife and I live in San Antonio and we just tried out some Pure Latex Bliss beds today- we settled on the āNatureā model with a 3" topper and the price we were given was 2499 delivered and one pillow. Some questions we have:
Are there better value mattresses around us that we should give a look or is PLB just as good as others?
Is this a great price or can we get it cheaper somewhere else?
Thanks so much![/quote]
Iām assuming the price is for a queen size. If that price includes the foundation then itās a very good price. Is that price with the sales tax added?
We purchased a queen size PLB Nature mattress and foundation from the Mattress Expert a few months ago for $2400., no sales tax, free delivery. I see from his website that he has increased his prices. The Mattress Expert
For a price comparison give Cgmattress a call. post #58.
Yeah the price is for Queen. We went to a different local guy on Wednesday and he offered us 2200 for a 4" foam- 6" talalay- 3" quilt top with no frame or spring (just the mattress).
I was looking online and was curious about whether this was a bed worth paying for:
This bed seems like it is very much the same kind of bed as Iāve been looking at, but for much cheaper- correct? I understand Phoenix that you are saying that different priorities equal different values but I am coming from a perspective of looking for a very comfortable bed for as little as I can spend and will give me comfort for a long time. I also want to be able to trust the place/people I am buying from so that I donāt end up getting swindled or anything.
Both SleepEz and Arizona Premium mattress are members of this site which means that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry.
Which one is a better or worse choice for you though depends on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you and on whether one mattress is a better āmatchā for you than another in terms of PPP. The advantage of some of the mattresses offered by SleepEz and Arizona Premium is that you can customize the mattress after a purchase by re-arranging or exchanging layers if you need to fine tune the mattress (although the one you linked from APM doesnāt have this option).
I would want to know the specifics of the foam and quilt top and the type of latex in the mattress before considering this to make sure there are no lower quality materials that could be a weak link in the mattress.
One part of āvalueā of course and making apples to apples comparisons depends on comparing the actual materials in a mattress and how much of each material each mattress uses (the Nutrition and a topper has 12" of latex, the SleepEz and the Arizona Premium each have 8"). Differences in the cover and the type of latex would also play a role (wool quilting is a more costly cover than a stretch knit cover for example). The Pure Latex Bliss uses blended Talalay latex from top to bottom and both SleepEz and Arizona Premium make mattresses that use the same materials and type of latex as well as other types of latex (including 100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay. The SleepEz you linked uses 100% natural Dunlop in the support core with a 2" layer of 100% natural Talalay in the comfort layer and has 3 layers that can be customized while the Arizona Premium mattress you linked uses 100% natural Talalay in both layers but canāt be customized after a purchase. All of these are high quality materials but they also have different costs and a different type of feel and performance. You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here and post #7 here has more about the difference in āfeelā between Dunlop and Talalay. Your own testing is the best way to know which one you prefer. When you are comparing an online choice with a local mattress that you have tested in person for PPP then the risk of an online purchase and the ability to customize the mattress after a purchase may be an important part of your purchase decision if you arenāt confident that a particular design is a good match for you.
Once you are down to final choices between mattresses where there are no clear winners and where none of them have any āweak linksā or low quality materials then the choice between them is really a matter of preference and which one you believe is the best match for your personal value equation.
You certainly have 3 good options to choose between
