We have been searching for a new mattress and tried many in sales rooms. We started out looking for a soft innerspring flippable mattress, but then discovered latex mattresses.
We have decided we do want a latex mattress, but the cost is very high. We began researching and looking online for one similar to the Pure Talalay Bliss Beautiful which we really liked in the showroom, but the cost was prohibitive.
I have learned more about latex than I ever thought I would reading online for hours about it. We definitely would like to go that route and I have become more comfortable building the bed online, but I am still struggling with who to purchase it from and what is best for us. I am comfortable with combination of Talalay for the comfort layers and Dunlop for the core after researching, but don’t know the best combo. I see you have several online manufacturers you recommend. Is there a manufacturer who would be better able to advise us in selecting the layers than another? I want comfort and durability and i know our height and weight figure into that equation from what I’ve read. Your help would be appreciated.
For your information, the specs of the Pure Talalay Bliss Beautiful that you are trying to approximate are:
[indent]3" 15 ILD Talalay
3" 24 ILD Talalay
6" 36 ILD Talalay
All blended Talalay from Talalay Global
Cover very flexible. Washable/Removable [/indent]
Attempting to find something that is exactly the same is often a frustrating and futile exercise especially if you are trying to do this on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one.
Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so you would need to carefully asses the design and the specs of each mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials (Talalay in this case, blended) in order to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) This is especially important when you are trying to approximate the mattress you are considering with others that use the same type of materials and components which may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.
In building our own mattress and as you are considering Dunlop for the core layer instead of a Talalay core of the same ILD (which is what TB Beautiful has), I would keep in mind that this change may modify your experience and the feel of the mattress as a whole. Even though the materials themselves may have similar properties they are quite different in feel and firmness (for the same ILD) Dunlop and Talalay aren’t directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here ) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .
The best you will hope for is to find something “in the range”, but realize that only your own careful personal testing or a detailed conversation with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer that has your best interests at heart will reveal whether or not the feel you are looking for is close to what your desires and needs.
This being said you seem to be on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be best resource to help you best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.
At a quick glance below are some of our trusted members here who offer Latex & All Latex component system options or mattress options that you may wish to consider I finding an mattress constructions that can be twitched towards the feel of PTB. All these site members are very familiar with the PTB line and will be able to offer options that are similar to the Beautiful. They use high quality and durable materials and are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to recommend them for your consideration.
Arizona Premium FloBeds has a similar construction to PTB which uses 100% natural Talalay from Vita Talalay. Their top layer is convoluted, so this would conform very well but have a different feel than a solid sheet of latex. Foam Sweet Foam The Beautiful does use blended Talalay and the FSF uses 100% natural Talalay, but it’s unlikely that you’ll feel much of a difference between the two. Sleep EZ Factory having the option to rearrange layers is very attractive to many individuals and does give you more flexibility, Spindle has a customizable option depending on your budget range
I’ll be interested in learning about any decisions that you make.
Thank you so much for all your help. We have done some more looking locally and online. I have chatted online with one of your recommended manufacturers, Arizona Mattress at Mattressnet.com. I am leaning towards using them and doing a DIY mattress.
We checked out an all Dunlop bed at a Maplewood Mattress Company which you also recommended. We are glad we did because it was too firm compared to the Talalay Beautiful Bliss.
The specs were:
2.5 in -18 ILD Dunlop
2 in - 28 ILD Dunlop
6 in - 38 ILD Dunlop
In researching and laying on these two beds, we are considering a 6 in Dunlop core and then 2 - 2 inch 20-24 ILD natural Talalay top layers to make a 10 inch mattress. We then thought we may purchase an additional 3 inch Talalay topper in 19-21 ILD if needed. We are not super picky, but we both definitely prefer soft.
In talking to the Maplewood Mattress, they seemed to believe it was important to keep a firm mattress core. They recommended not using soft for the middle later. In researching online I have read to layer the softest layer on top to firmest layer on the bottom. I did read on Arizona mattresses that the ultra soft blended Talalay ILD 14 was not recommended for over 150 pounds and the Bliss was blended Talalay 15 ILD, so I am thinking we should not go with that soft of a top layer.
We are both side sleepers and getting older so have aches and pains which is why we want a soft mattress for pressure relief. My husband is 6 foot and 225 pounds and I am 5 foot 6 inches and 160 pounds. In your opinion will talalay hold up for us for the top 4 inches in a pure talalay soft 20-24 ILD? I am concerned about the hammock effect since visiting with Maplewood Mattress.
I am planning to call and talk to Arizona mattress after we revisit STL Beds to lay on the Bliss again. We really liked it, but it was the first one we tried.
You’re welcome! If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen). If you are not attempting to duplicate a design that you have already tested, then the next most reliable source of guidance would be a manufacturer who has experience with crating products using the types of materials you are considering.
Just for clarity, I don’t make recommendations for stores unless they are a vetted member here of the site. Maplewood Mattress is not a site member here, but they should be familiar with Dunlop latex.
We are glad we did because it was too firm compared to the Talalay Beautiful Bliss.
The specs were:
2.5 in -18 ILD Dunlop
2 in - 28 ILD Dunlop
6 in - 38 ILD Dunlop
Yes, I would expect this to feel firmer than the Beautiful. Not only are you using higher ILD latex layers than in the Beautiful, you are using Dunlop, which as I mentioned in my previous reply, Dunlop will “firm up faster” than Talalay.
If you are considering the 38 ILD Dunlop core, this would end up being a bit firmer than the 36 ILD Talalay core used in the Beautiful. Using 4" of N2 Talalay is quite soft, and overall would be less padding material in the upper layers than the Beautiful (that has 6") and softer than the 24 ILD that the Beautiful uses, as the 3" of 24 ILD Talalay in the Beautiful is blended and overall is in a bit of a higher ILD range than the N2. In this combination you may feel a bit more of an “abrupt” transition from the 4" of N2 to the 38 ILD Dunlop core. If you added another 3" of 20 ILD Talalay on top of that, this would be 7" of quite plush latex on top of the Dunlop core, and you could have a legitimate concern of too much plush material, especially for someone like your husband.
Their concern seems to dovetail with my previous comments. I think the construction you are referring to is progressive (see this article).
Many manufacturers have this same concern, so an upper layer in your situation of N2 Talalay or 19 ILD or higher would most likely be a good “softest” choice.
Unfortunately, I can’t predict what would feel best to you or how you might to a certain combination, as there are far too many personal variables involved. 4" of N2 Talalay is quite soft, but not as plush as a 15 ILD Talalay or N1. If you desire a more progressive design, something like 2" layers of 28/24/19 (or 24/24/19) ILD latex on top of the 38 ILD Dunlop core could be an option or if you do like the 4" of N2 but the transition to the Dunlop core was too abrupt, you could place a 2" layer of 2 ILD Talalay on top of the core as a transition layer. All of this is pure speculation, as only your own personal testing will be able to determine what might work best for you.
Your idea of calling Arizona Premium is also a good idea, as they are very experienced with DIY designs and they can provide some commentary on the configurations you’re considering.
We have done some more mattress testing. We revisited the Talalay Bliss Beautiful and after laying on it again decided it was not the mattress for us.
We then looked at a Savvy Rest and after trying multiple combinations and laying on them for 15 to 20 minutes each, we came up with a split combination for a king size mattress. With the difference in our weights that seems to be the best idea.
The Savvy Rest is 9 inches plus about an inch for the cover. We were comfortable on the 9 inch, but prefer 12 inches starting with the 6 in core and then 2-3 inch comfort layers instead of the 3-3 inch layers they use.
We have checked your trusted manufacturers and decided to go with Arizona Mattress and their DIY assembly in a King mattress encasement. We decided on: Side 1: 6 in medium Dunlop, 3 in medium natural talalay, 3 in soft natural talalay. Side 2: 6 in firm Dunlop, 3 in medium natural talalay, 3 in medium natural talalay. I think we are going to do all king xl latex so if we need to change out a layer on one side or the other more easily if our needs change. I am holding off on my order until I hear your advise.
My question is do you think the extra 3 inches in the core will make a difference in the feel?
We were also told on a platform bed with a solid wood base we need a coconut husk bed mat to absorb moisture. It was the first we had heard of this. Is it necessary? Could we drill holes in the plywood for ventilation as an alternative? Is a slat system better? We live in Missouri. Our climate is humid in the summer, but our AC is always during hot, humid weather. In the winter our house is so dry we have a evaporatove humidifier with hygrometer to maintain proper humidity levels.
Besides the fact that you will be mixing latex foam from different sources and one company’s “medium” can be different from another’s (you didn’t list the layers you tried in the Savvy Rest Serenity), you will also be adding an extra 3" of material, and as all of the layers of foam work together to provide comfort, you will notice a difference in feel. Also, the type of covering used between the product you tested and the product you are building will create a difference in feel.
If you desire more latex in a mattress (as you seem to indicate) the Unity pillowtop from Savvy Rest uses the Serenity mattress along with a 3" topper, so this would total 12" overall of latex, if you are desiring to test such a configuration. Changes made deep down in a mattress will tend to not be quite as noticeable as changes made in the uppermost layers that are closest to your skin.
A coir bed rug is a good idea for any mattress placed upon a solid surface, especially in humid environments. It is not there to absorb moisture, but to provide air circulation around the mattress. Drilling holes in the plywood deck generally wouldn’t provide as much air circulation as a slatted platform bed or a coir bed rug.
