Purple 4 too firm! Alternatives or DIY specifics?

[phoenix]

Hello DuckytheLoon.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! I am happy to hear you’ve found the forum and other resources on the site useful thus far!
You have not infringed any forum rules, just that sometimes iThe phone icon is just showing us that there’s a new post needing an answer.

I’ve got a dilemma here. Shopping for mattresses in a pandemic goes without saying, but it’s only part of the issue.

Shopping during a covid restriction presents quite a number of challenges on its own, without having to consider other special factors! Hopefully, we can help you with your mattress shopping journey!

I have a connective tissue disease called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), and this basically means that my tendons and ligaments are lax and don’t do a decent job holding me together. I have arthritis all throughout my spine, especially my neck, and my nerves can get pinched there. The effect while sleeping is that my spine can neither support itself well nor resist pressure. So…even more so than the average side-sleeper, I need a mattress that allows me to sink in so that I have no pressure points, yet keeps my spine supported and aligned.

Thanks for sharing all the info about EDS and what it entails for you (not an easy challenge), but it’s good to see that you are taking a due diligence approach to moving forward with your next mattress. I can see why your condition makes it more difficult than the norm to achieve neutral alignment of the spine and joints, and why you would have a lower rate of tolerance to any slight misalignments then most… so it would be especially important to make sure that the comfort layers are soft and thick enough to provide good pressure relief but not so thick that the heavier parts of your body are too far away from the support layers of your mattress that they sink down too far and put you out of good or neutral alignment. I can see from your post that you are well aware of the need to find a good balance between the conflicting needs of good pressure relief (which requires enough softness and thickness in the comfort layers) and good support/alignment (which requires a firm enough support layer and a comfort layer that isn’t too soft and thick).

We have been sleeping on a Purple Hybrid Premier 4 since July 15th. Purple had a lot of recommendations from other EDS sufferers, and buckling column gel looked very promising indeed. (Tempur-Pedic and Sleep Number were also highly recommended). We liked the feel of the Purple when trying it out in person. However, it didn’t take long at home to become apparent that it is actually not soft enough for us.

I’m sorry to hear the Purple Hybrid hasn’t been a good fit. It looks like you haven’t had the mattress very long – hopefully, it’s still under warranty/the sleep nights trial test so that you can return it.
That is one of the tricky things about reviews and recommendations. What works wonderfully for one person may be a disaster for another, even with similarities in weight/height/needs and even the same chronic medical conditions. There are far too many interrelated variables that come into play especially for someone on the more sensitive side. One of the common “downsides” to buckling column gels is that they all come with different “collapse” thresholds and the firmer ones (usually the hexagonal shaped versions) may be too firm for some people. It sounds like this may be the case for you.

My shoulder cannot sink in far enough and the surface actually feels resistant to the point that it can impinge my circulation in my arm. I’ve started having trouble with my shoulder joints and nerve pinching again. It seems that those parts of my body don’t weigh enough to sink in. My husband also finds that his hips sink down more than his shoulders sink in and he doesn’t feel his lower back is supported. The mattress also appears to be unevenly soft across its surface.

You’re not alone when it comes to shoulder/arm circulation pains and pinching problems that occur when sleeping on a Purple mattress. Another lightweight side sleeper also reported pressure in their shoulders on the same Purple mattress. This is a bit like tossing the coin as it is hard to know for sure if you are on the threshold of buckling gel collapsing under heavier and less contact surface of various body areas….which I am guessing is where the feeling of unevenness comes from.

We live in Georgia, but there aren’t many local options for field-testing materials…just Mattress Firm, pretty much. Due to the pandemic, we haven’t been traveling. We might have to take another chance with a mattress just because of the times. In store, we did try a couple of Intellibeds (husband said they “felt weird”), several Tempur-Pedics (we liked the softest LuxeAdapt best, and it’s softer than the Purple we have), and some S-brand hybrids with memory foam tops (ok to good, but we’re concerned with durability).

In times like these (if you’re unable to do mattress testing), the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using. When choosing something online, it’s even more important to deal with an experienced, knowledgeable retailer/manufacturer who takes into consideration your specific circumstances and helps you find something that they honestly think will serve you well.

In general, the least transparent and least helpful manufacturers are likely to be bigger name brands who are likely to tell what they think you want to hear vs what you would need to know to make an informed purchase. In most cases, the end goal is the sale – not your comfort. That’s not to say these brands can’t or won’t work for you(at least for a while), but it is something to take into account when considering a purchase online.
Given you’ve had only limited experience with sleeping on latex, I’d first make sure you like the feel of it.… Latex is a great option to consider as a comfort/support layer and it is roughly equivalent to the memory foam pressure relief properties. Memory foam can be an excellent choice for pressure relief and it has some unusual qualities which lead to both its strengths and its weaknesses. If you’re considering staying with some sort of memory foam product, there are some guidelines for purchasing memory foam in post #10 here. There are some other memory foam brand options in post #12 here
As you’ve already noted from your experience with your pillow, latex has this natural ability to form a pressure-relieving “cradle” without totally collapsing. It’s possible the “firmness” you’re experiencing with your pillow is a layer thickness issue. Perhaps a softer ILD of latex in the pillow would meet your needs a little better. Latex can range from very soft to very firm, and makes customizing a mattress to fit your needs much easier!

You and your husband both have lower BMIs and similar sleep profiles which should make finding a mattress that meets both of your personal preferences and needs easier, especially as you both prefer a similar mattress feel.

You mentioned that you both have a tendency to overheat, and I’m sure you’ve done your research on this already and probably read that one of the weaknesses of memory foam is that it sleeps hot– I’ll go ahead and mention the mattress protector you choose along with your sheets and other bedding and what you wear when you sleep will also have a significant effect on temperature regulation because they can either add to the insulating effect or to the ventilating and moisture-wicking effect of your mattress. You can see more about the effect of different mattress protectors in post #89 here. Bedding made from natural fibers or viscose materials (like latex) will also tend to be cooler than synthetic fibers and linen sheets along with silk are probably the coolest of all the natural fibers for those where sleeping temperature is a main priority. There is more about sheets and bedding in post #7 here. In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make “enough” of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress.

Your $3,500 budget is generous enough and I’m sure you’ll have no problems finding something high quality and durable below that price point without “sacrificing comfort and durability” and you also have some very good purchasing criteria as far as I can see. If you like the feel of latex you will not need to sacrifice the “cooling” effect you desire.

• Are there any mattresses that you think would fit the bill that would be absolutely worth ordering?
Or–
• Are there specific combinations of components (and sources for these, if possible) that would be a great bet in terms of a DIY mattress?
For instance, I am attracted to the idea of a thick, durable memory foam comfort layer over a Talalay transitional layer over a firmer latex (Dunlop?) base. I don’t know if this is an odd combination. A good pocket coil base would also be fine…would it ventilate more or just let dust mites in? If this would work, what would my ideal thicknesses be? 4" memory foam? 4" Talalay? (and how firm?) How firm and which latex for the base? I understand that over 5 lb per square foot density memory foam is ideal and would seek this out.
Basically, can anyone suggest what we should do?

With a few exceptions you have well-defined mattress purchasing criteria, but you still need to do a bit more leg work. After you considered some of the things, I pointed in this long post then you will be in a position to narrow things and even possibly have a few finalists. At this stage, your field of search is still too wide and anyone trying to chime in and help may send you on a tangent. You are a step ahead than most that you are well aware now that generally, nobody can recommend a specific mattress, as they cannot speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only ones that can feel what you feel on a mattress.

I venture to say that memory foam may not be your best fit, as it sleeps hotter than all other mattress foams, and offers less support than latex foam. If you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading our articles on the pros and cons of memory foam.

I’d also recommend that along with the suggested reading you browse the mattresses offered by our Trusted Members, all of whom I think very highly of and consider to be among the best in the industry. Each one of them will be open and transparent about their mattresses as they’ll take into account your specific needs especially as it comes to the support you need with regards to EDS.

If you’d like a “build your own” option under supervision, then I’d suggest you take a look at Sleep EZ’s organic latex mattress which lets you customize it right on their website. They also have a [URL=http://forum.mattressunderground.com/c/talk-to-the-experts/apm] dedicated forum where they’d gladly work with you to ensure suitability for any of their products (you’ll find many of our members have dedicated forums – definitely feel free to ask them questions!)

Arizona Premium allows you to choose your preferred firmness on their queen Naturalux mattress, and also offers DIY components. They are an excellent resource should you need specific fine-tuning and can answer all your questions in their forum here. Other great resources for DIY components and questions are DIY Natural Bedding, as well as Latex Mattress Factory (customization or DIY components and a
dedicated forum) and Memory Foam Comfort…who also has a
dedicated forum.

Others off the top of my head who will work with you for a custom option or let you build one on their website are:
• Shovlin Mattress Factory
• Sleeping Organic
• Texas Mattress Makers

I have given you quite a lot of information here, so let me know if anything needs clarification. And, of course, definitely keep us posted on your mattress shopping journey!

Phoenix