Q's a/b Talalay latex Toppers

[SFgal]

Hi Phoenix,

GREAT WEBSITE!!! Thank you so much for all the great info here! I wish I had found it BEFORE my well meaning boyfriend went out and surprised me with a new bed… that is much much MUCH too hard for me. (not quite as hard as a floor, but in my opinion, no bed should be this hard). Here are the specs http://www.wholesalesupplies.com/imagespdf/simmons/2012_Westbury%20II%20Plush.pdf

I’m a side sleeper mostly (occasionally a back sleeper) ~150 lbs. My boyfriend is a stomach/side sleeper ~230. We are both 5’8".

We initially got a 3" gel foam topper from Costco (Novaform 3" Gel Memory Foam Mattress Topper) which feels like we are stuck in the mud but it does do a great job of removing the pain I was having from sleeping on the hard mattress. But we aren’t keeping this topper because it smells HORRIBLE and I’m concerned about the toxins. (I am curious a/b your thoughts on this. Does the smell go away? is it dangerous to sleep with these?)

I’m now looking at Talalay latex topper. I’m pretty sure I want one made in the US, again b/c of the toxins issue - I want to make sure we know it’s safe and what’s inside it.

I’m trying to figure out the following:

1. should we get 2" or 3"? One sales person said a soft 2" should be enough and he said that some customers complain that 3" is much too soft. Another sales person from a different store said to get medium firm 3", he said that 2" may not be enough to cushion the pressure points since our mattress is so hard. I’m leaning towards 3" since we currently have that now in memory foam and it seems to do a good job (currently with the 3" memory foam topper, I have no pain in hips, or shoulder which were the problem spots w/ the hard mattress alone. My previous bed gave me lower back pain which I think may have been b/c it was too soft, but I’m not sure a/b this). I’m not sure how memory foam compares to Talalay in terms of recommended # of inches. I know there is a lot of differences between the two materials but I’m wonder if there is a rule of thumb. For example, if you like 3" in of foam, then you should probably stick to 3" in Talalay… Any help you could offer would be appreciated.
2. I’m also wondering what softness to get. The guy who suggested 2" said to get soft (but I don’t think he specified IDL), while the guy who suggested 3" said to get medium (24 IDL) for me and 32 IDL for my boyfriend (and there would be no add’l charge to split the firmness which I thought was great - we’re getting a King size). I’d love to hear your thoughts a/b what you’d recommend for IDL/softness for me and my boyfriend given our size and sleeping preferences?
3. Given my circumstances, what do you recommend - the blended Talalay or 100% all natural? I know you have said in the past that at the lower IDLs, impressions can develop faster whereas the higher IDLs the durability is negligible. But where is the line? Would you consider 19 or 24 low enough IDL to steer me towards a blended topper? I am a little worried a/b getting the blended b/c I want to make sure that I get something that isn’t toxic. I reread your website last night and saw a couple places where you said synthetic latex made via Talalay method is not toxic and should be fine - that it is tested to the same standards (oeko-Tex standard 100 class 1). Can you please just triple confirm that you don’t think there are any carcinogens or toxic fumes in the blended/hybrid Talalay? Sorry to ask, I just wonder b/c I thought I read that synthetic latex is sometimes made with petrochemicals or something that is not healthy (maybe that is only outside the US?). I know you’ve written that if someone is interested in a super all natural lifestyle, and they don’t mind paying more, then go ahead and get NR. I don’t want to pay more if there isn’t a clear health benefit. If there is a health benefit, then I’m happy to pay more. I definitely don’t want toxic things in my house but I am looking for value so I don’t want to spend extra money just to be green.
4. I’m having a hard time distinguishing between 100% all natural Talalay vs. blended/hybrid. I’m finding that most sellers don’t specify. For example, this one from Brooklyn Bedding http://www.brooklynbedding.com/mattress-toppers/latex-toppers/3-inch-talalay-latex-topper describes their product this way “It is processed with natural, biodegradable ingredients derived from renewable resources and water-based raw materials: natural latex, air, and water. This clean and green approach carries through to our end products: Talalay latex contains no toxic chemicals and is considered the healthiest material to sleep on.” This led me to believe it’s 100% all natural Talalay. Nowhere did it say it was a blend/hybrid. But when I specifically asked, I was told it’s made from 60% synthetic, 40% natural latex. Worse still, some other sellers don’t seem to know the answer when I ask if it’s a blend or 100% natural, or don’t inspire confidence that they really know the answer when they do reply. Any suggestions for how I can find out for sure if it’s blended vs. 100% all natural latex?

THANK YOU!!!

[phoenix]

Hi SFgal,

We initially got a 3" gel foam topper from Costco (Novaform 3" Gel Memory Foam Mattress Topper) which feels like we are stuck in the mud but it does do a great job of removing the pain I was having from sleeping on the hard mattress. But we aren’t keeping this topper because it smells HORRIBLE and I’m concerned about the toxins. (I am curious a/b your thoughts on this. Does the smell go away? is it dangerous to sleep with these?)

If the topper is CertiPur certified (and Sleep Innovations which makes the Novaform is certified*) then most people wouldn’t consider it dangerous or unsafe no. There are also some people who have different opinions about memory foam and would avoid all memory foam completely. Some people also avoid polyfoam because they prefer not to sleep on anything made with chemicals no matter who says they are safe. Some people are more sensitive than others and there may be some toppers which are worse than others but in general if a materials has been tested for offgassinc and harmful substances then most people would consider it safe. I have personally had some issues with a Novaform topper that you can read about in post #2 here. The smell normally goes away fairly quickly (in a few days) but this is not always the case. I haven’t had any issues on other memory foam materials and I have also slept on another Novaform topper that didn’t produce the same “symptoms”.

ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 link|Archived Footprint: certipur.us/pages/for-industry/find-a-foam-supplier/sleep-innovations/

There are too many unknowns, preferences, and variables involved to use “theory” to choose a topper but the topper guidelines in post #2 here and the posts it links to can help you use your actual sleeping experience on the mattress as a guideline for your choice.

Given my circumstances, what do you recommend - the blended Talalay or 100% all natural? I know you have said in the past that at the lower IDLs, impressions can develop faster whereas the higher IDLs the durability is negligible. But where is the line? Would you consider 19 or 24 low enough IDL to steer me towards a blended topper?

I don’t think anyone knows for certain and it may also depend on the manufacturer of the Talalay. Radium has told me that their softer 100% natural Talalay uses a special curing past and it is as durable as their blend while Latex International says that their 100% natural is less durable than the blended. If I had to guess in the absence of any specific testing results that compares them for durability I would guess the meeting point would be somewhere in the mid 20’s. Don’t forget though that all latex is more durable than other materials so this is just a comparison between different types of latex.

Can you please just triple confirm that you don’t think there are any carcinogens or toxic fumes in the blended/hybrid Talalay? Sorry to ask, I just wonder b/c I thought I read that synthetic latex is sometimes made with petrochemicals or something that is not healthy (maybe that is only outside the US?).

All the latex that you are likely to encounter has been tested and certified for offgassing and harmful substances (whether it was made in the Us or elsewhere) so if someone is telling you that it somehow isn’t “safe” or “healthy” I would ask them to validate what they are saying and ask them why they believe that the stringent testing standards that are used by OekoTex or other similar testing criteria isn’t proof enough of safety for them. Some people equate “petrochemicals” to being “unsafe” and I wonder if they ever wear any synthetic clothing or what is in their furniture at home. I wonder if they ever use plastic wrap to wrap their food. These type of broad generalizations are usually very misleading and not very helpful. If you are in any doubt you can just ask for the testing certifications of the latex you are considering.

4. I’m having a hard time distinguishing between 100% all natural Talalay vs. blended/hybrid. I’m finding that most sellers don’t specify.

Any good manufacturer will tell you the type and blend of latex in their product if you call and ask them (and I always would) and Brooklyn Bedding is certainly one of these.

Any suggestions for how I can find out for sure if it’s blended vs. 100% all natural latex?

The only way to know for certain is to deal with reliable suppliers that will give you accurate information. You won’t be able to tell based on how it looks.

Phoenix