Question About Progressive Bed

Hi,

First off, thank you so much for putting together this forum. It has been very helpful during our search for a new mattress.

My wife and I recently bought a zoned king size bed from Fox Mattress. It consists of three zones on either side with a foam support layer. We got a 2’’ gel foam comfort layer on one side, and a 2’’ latext comfort layer on the other side. I have some back issues and thought I would want the extra support from the latex.

After about a month of having the bed, we have decided to exchange it. Though my back doesn’t hurt in the morning, I have trouble getting comfortable at night without being able to sink into the bed at all. My wife is “ok” with her side, but thinks it could be more comfortable.

We went back to Fox and are pursuing an exchange for a bed with the following construction:

  • Foam-encased construction
  • 6 inches traditional 12.5 gauge innerspring on the bottom
  • 3 inches 5 lb density Talalay latex above the innerspring
  • 3 inches 4 lb density gel infused memory foam above the latex
  • The ticking is made of a material that is supposedly designed to help divert air to the periphery of the mattress

This bed was very comfortable in the store, creating the sinking in feeling we were looking for. With the strong support in the middle and deep layer, I did not get the impression spinal alignment and support would be sacrificed for the softness of the comfort layer. At least it wasn’t in the store.

As an aside, when we went back to the store, we did also look at a latex over innerspring bed, an all latex bed, and a progressive construction of memory foam over latex over foam. The latex beds were too firm, and the progressive bed was not quite as soft as the bed we are currently planning to exchange for.

Our order for this exchange is being placed on Monday. I was just hoping to confirm that the above construction sounds good to you, as your website says progressive construction can be quite difficult to get right. My main concern is if you would think that spinal alignment could be an issue with how soft the top layer of the bed is. We only get one exchange, and though the bed was comfortable when we went back to the store, we thought checking here couldn’t hurt.

Thanks so much!

Hi floridamattress,

There is more about the most common “symptoms” that people may experience on a mattress in post #2 here but I would be very cautious here. The objective of every mattress is that it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP which stands for Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences and I would prioritize them in that order. Based on your description (and correct me if I’m wrong) it sounds like you aren’t experiencing any “symptoms” and that the reason you are looking to exchange your mattress would be “comfort” issues which are very subjective and based on preferences. If your current mattress is keeping you in good alignment and provides good pressure relief then I would be cautious that the mattress you are exchanging for will do the same thing so that you don’t end up exchanging more subjective “comfort” or “preference” issues for posture/alignment or pressure relief issues.

Unfortunately I can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress and I don’t know anything about your body type, sleeping positions, history, or any of the other factors that may play a role in which mattress is best for you and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone (including me) to be able to predict whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). While I’m happy to help with questions about the quality of the materials … only your own careful and objective testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) or personal experience can tell you whether a mattress is a good match for you. There is also more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress in post #13 here.

When you are buying a mattress locally I wouldn’t pay any attention to whether a mattress is progressive or differential or any other “design theory”, or “comfort specs” and I would focus strictly on what your body is telling you with careful testing. Once you have confirmed that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP to the best of your ability then the only specs you need to know are about the type and quality of the materials inside the mattress (and Fox Mattress uses high quality materials relative to their budget range in all their mattresses). I would let your body tell you which mattress is the best match for you in terms of PPP and then you can use your mind and the quality specs of the materials in the mattress can tell you about the quality and durability of the materials.

I can certainly confirm that all the materials and components in this mattress are good quality and there are no weak links in the mattress. In terms of PPP though … while the staff at Fox Mattress can certainly provide you with some good help and guidance … you are the only one that can know whether any mattress is a good match for you so I would make sure that if this is your only exchange that you spend some good “testing time” on the mattress you are considering.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix! I appreciate the prompt reply and you sharing your concerns. We had some of the same ones.

I do have some mild soreness in the morning with the new bed, but its not as bad as it was on my old bed. My main “symptoms” are that it is hard to get comfortable and fall asleep at night, and that I am not waking up feeling well rested.

In the store, we did lay on the mattress for about 15-20 minutes several times, and my back didn’t tense up at all. Should someone feel some degree of discomfort within that amount of time if a mattress would be likely to cause them problems?

I understand it is impossible to predict something as subjective as comfort for another individual. I probably wasnt clear in my question regarding construction. Maybe rephrasing to something more objective might be better…In your experience, do you think that type of construction would have enough deeper support in the middle and bottom layers to maintain alignment despite a soft top layer?

Thanks again!

Hi floridamattress,

I’m not sure where your soreness is so it’s difficult to know what it may be pointing to. The post I linked earlier though has more information that can help you “connect” any symptoms you may be experiencing with their most likely (although not necessarily the only) causes.

This would make sense because it sounds like your current mattress is keeping you in relatively good alignment (or at least none of the comments you make seem to indicate lower back issues which is the most common “alignment” issues so your testing was probably fairly “accurate” when it comes to alignment). While spending 15 - 20 minutes on a mattress and testing specifically for posture and alignment, pressure relief, and “comfort” in all your sleeping positions and knowing what to test for will generally be “close enough” for most people that only minor fine tuning is needed if it isn’t quite right (such as a mattress pad or in some cases a topper of some kind) … nothing is perfect so for those that have a more narrow range of support or alignment that is most suitable for them (they are closer to what I call the “princess and the pea” end of the range than the “I can sleep on anything” end of the range) then the goal would be to get as close as possible to recreating and predicting their sleeping experience as much as possible. “Comfort” and pressure relief issues are usually easier to assess in a store than alignment issues because in general comfort and pressure relief are what most people tend to notice when they first lie on a mattress or first go to sleep at night and alignment issues are what most people tend to notice more when they wake up in the morning so they can be a little more challenging to discern. The best approach to test for alignment is a combination of visual and experiential cues.

There is really no way for me to know this because there are just too many variables and unknowns. For some people with certain body types, weight distributions, sleeping positions, and physiologies it would certainly be a suitable choice and for others it may not be. It all depends on whether the primary support, secondary support, pressure relief, and “comfort” fits your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences (there is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here). There are so many variables that there really isn’t any way to know based on specs.

If I was to know more about the specific “symptoms” you are experiencing on your current mattress, more about your body type, weight, and weight distribution, more about your sleeping positions, more about your sleeping history, more about any issues you may be prone to or tend to experience when you sleep, and more about the specific materials inside your current mattress and the mattress you are considering (including many of the “comfort specs” that I don’t know), and if I was familiar with all the specific materials, … then I would have at least some frame of reference that I could use to “guess” at the types of changes that may be helpful (thicker here, softer here, firmer there etc) but I don’t have any personal experience with either mattress (which is where their knowledge and experience would be much more helpful) and I don’t have nearly enough information about you, the specifics of the mattress you currently are sleeping on, or the mattress you are considering to even guess.

I wish I could (and there are many people in the industry that would love to have a “formula” of some kind that could predict these types of “theoretical” questions based on the specs of different people and materials) … but unfortunately this kind of formula just doesn’t exist so it always comes down to either your own personal testing or experience or when you can’t test a mattress in person then the “best judgement” of a manufacturer or retailer that can use the “averages” of customers that seem to be similar to you to help you choose a mattress that would have the highest chance of success … for those that “fit” inside the averages.

Phoenix

You are right; there definitely is a lot that goes into all of this. I think we’ve put almost as much time into the mattress purchase as we did when we bought our last car.

To answer some of your questions, we are both mostly side sleepers but I move around a fair bit during the night and my wife often transitions to her back once asleep. I am about 6’ 190 lbs, and my wife is about 5’4 120 lbs. We are both pretty much normal build, without a majority of weight unevenly distributed to any one body portion. Historically most of my back issues have been mid to lower. I do have some degree of that on the current mattress, though not nearly as bad as my old bed. Historically, I have had trouble sleeping on very hard surfaces (such as futons), or on surfaces that were soft but maintained poor alignment (i.e. our old bed). I had occasionally had some shoulder issues when waking up, but I think that was pillow issues as those have improved with a pillow change. I do often fall asleep with my arm under the pillow. Once I am asleep, I am a pretty heavy sleeper and don’t wake up easily. Getting to sleep on a hard surface can be difficult for me (which is one of the current issues I am having) My wife does best on a soft bed, and she is a light sleeper who is very sensitive to movement.

Our old bed was a pillowtop spring queen bed from Sleepy’s that I bought in grad school and that we got about 8 years out of (probably kept it a year or two longer than I should have). Our current bed (that we are planning to exchange in for) is a zoned bed that has is foam encased, with 6 foam zones total (3 on either side), and a split topper (latex on my side, gel infused memory foam on my wife’s). (http://foxmattress.com/introducing-new-cube-it-bed/) . My wife has soft foam on her side in the head and mid-sections, I have soft foam at the head, medium firm (2/4 level (originally started with a 3/4 level)) in the mid-section, and we both have firm foam (3/4 level) at the feet. It is a good quality bed (and the people at the store have been great to work with so far), and according to online reviews, it works well for a lot of people. It just unfortunately isn’t exactly what we are looking for.

At this point, we are planning to move forward with the exchange, but we still thought the above information could be useful in case anyone browsing the forums finds themselves in a similar situation. We definitely will post after we have the new bed for a while with some feedback.

Thanks again for all of your help and your dedication towards helping so many of us find a good night’s sleep!

Hi floridamattress,

That’s probably a good thing because a mattress and how well you sleep can have a much more significant effect on how you feel and your overall well being than a car … although most people don’t think of it in quite those terms :slight_smile:

They weren’t so much questions as the reasons why I wouldn’t be the best source of guidance when you have a more local source that you can talk with in person that is much more knowledgeable about their mattresses than I am (I have never tried any of their mattresses so I don’t know how they would even feel for me and it would be almost impossible for me to know how they may feel for someone else without some frame of reference). They will be much more familiar with their mattresses and the options they have available that have helped other customers that were in a similar situation and faced similar issues to you over their many years of experience with their mattresses than anyone else.

If it was possible to somehow provide all the specifics of all the layers and materials in your mattress and a more detailed account of all your specific “symptoms” that were “enough” for me to identify a probable cause behind what you are experiencing then I could probably make some suggestions about some potential changes that would be worth trying (if they are available) that would have a reasonable chance of helping (or at least could provide more information about the effects of certain changes that could “point to” the most likely cause) but trying to “diagnose” sleeping issues or symptoms on a mattress that I’m not familiar with without much more specific information about you and your mattress (and probably a much more detailed conversation on the phone) would be almost impossible and would be somewhat similar to a doctor trying to “diagnose” a medical condition on a forum with very limited information and only more generic descriptions of symptoms that can could come from many different causes and without being able to talk with them and examine them in person or do any testing that can help identify the most likely cause for the “symptoms” they are experiencing.

Even if this was possible … you already have the best source of guidance possible available to you which is a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer that makes your mattress and their help in combination with your own testing and experience and the information you can provide them about your sleeping experience will give you the best possible chance of making the type of changes or exchange that will have the highest possible chance of success.

Each person is unique and what works for one person may not work as well for someone else even if they appear to be similar but I would certainly be interested in the outcome of any changes or exchanges you end up making and how they work for you because if nothing else it can help others to understand the challenges that can be involved in choosing the most suitable mattress (or the most suitable exchange or adjustment) and the most effective approach to dealing with situations where your initial choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

In many cases … my “best advice” is to help to connect people with the “best source of advice” rather than provide it myself :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your next “update” and finding out what you decide to do and of course your feedback about the results of any changes or exchanges that you decide to make.

Phoenix