I recently purchased the Pure Latex Bliss Eco (natural talalay) and have had some significant issues sleeping on it as it is simply too firm (which I thought would be good as I have some back issues). It also gives me a heat sensation, could this be indicative of a potential allergy or is this something that is normal? Is it perhaps due to the organic cotton cover?
I was thinking of either returning it and buying a softer model (i.e. something with a thicker comfort layer) or using a topper to achieve that. Would a 3 inch topper basically achieve the same thing as buying the next model up in price which is the PLB Sustain? or is there a signficant advantage to buying the thicker mattress instead of the topper.
I donât know what could be causing the heat sensation and most people wouldnât have any temperature issues with this mattress with the wool quilted cotton cover (which is typically very temperature regulating in both directions) but it wouldnât be a normal âsymptomâ of a latex allergy no. It could be from your mattress protector or the sheets and bedding you are using. There is more about tracking down temperature regulation issues in post #2 here.
As far as I know the Eco has 2" of N2 Talalay (between 20 and 24 ILD) on top of a support core that is about 36 ILD and the Sustain has two 2" layers of N1 (between 14 - 19 ILD) on top of the same core so for most people adding a 3" N1 topper would be âsomewhat similarâ although it wouldnât be exactly the same and since these types of comparisons are fairly subjective and can depend on body type, sleeping positions, and individual perceptions, different people may have different opinions about how closely they âmatchâ. The most reliable way to know how they compare or which one would be the best match for you in terms of PPP would be to compare the Eco with the topper and the Sustain in the store so you could use your own perceptions and experience to compare them.
There is also more information in post #2 here which may be helpful when you have a new mattress that is too firm.
The advantage of a separate topper ⌠especially if it is very soft ⌠is that you can replace it without having to replace the entire mattress because the top layers of a sleeping system will tend to soften and break down faster than the firmer support layers and components.
Phoenix,
I was testing several of the PLB mattresses today, including the âSustainâ model, comparing it with 11" and thinner PLB models. In this thread, you suggested that the âSustainâ has two 2â layers of N1, but in post #2 here, you suggest that N1 natural latex from LI has an ILD range of 14-19, the same as you listed for N2, which I assume is a typo. The odd thing is, for me the âSustainâ seemed noticeably firmer than the other PLB mattresses (except for the âpamperâ) even though those other mattresses have significantly less soft top layers.
Now, I know youâve said in multiple threads that people feel mattresses differently and that there are a number of different factors determining how firm a mattress feels. Iâm wondering to what extent this could be due to the lack of of the GL (ActiveFusion) foam in the all-Natural PLB mattresses or if something else is in play here. Obviously, the âSustainâ also has a significantly different cover than the standard PLB offerings.
Yes ⌠it was a typo and should have read 20 - 24 ILD (and Iâve corrected it). Nice catch ⌠and thanks for bringing it to my attention :).
Itâs possible that the information I have about the ILD of the layers is incorrect (although it came from a reliable source so I donât think so) but the type of cover can also have a significant effect on how soft or firm a mattress âfeelsâ (see post #6 here) so this could be playing a significant role if you are comparing the PLB âOrganic collectionâ with the quilted cover and the âUltimate collectionâ with the thinner stretch cover. Other than this ⌠firmness and softness can also be very subjective so sometimes there just isnât an explanation for why a particular person feels one mattress as being softer or firmer than another one when âtheoryâ or specs would indicate otherwise. In these cases personal experience always âtrumpsâ theory.
Thanks for the information. The post you referred to on wool covers was very useful and interesting. In searching for customer reviews of the âSustainâ model Iâm considering for purchase, I came across this site, which purports to have the specifications for all the layers for PLB mattresses. It suggests the layer arrangement is:
[table]
[tr]
[td]Layer Type[/td]
[td]Thickness[/td]
[td]Description[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Comfort[/td]
[td]2"[/td]
[td]All Natural Talalay Latex - 19 ILD Medium Plush[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Comfort[/td]
[td]2"[/td]
[td]All Natural Talalay Latex - 28 ILD Medium Firm[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Support[/td]
[td]6"[/td]
[td]All Natural Talalay Latex - 36 ILD[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Cover[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]400+ gram washable / removable cover w/ ActiveFusion. Organic Cotton w/ wool fire barrier [/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
The specs for the other PLB mattresses on that web site are close but not identical to those specified in post # 2 here.
I am confident that the specs for the PLB Ultimate line in the post you linked are all correct.
Iâm not quite as confident in the specs of the Organic line although the specs you listed would be specs for blended Talalay not 100% natural Talalay so they arenât likely to be correct either.
The specs I listed for the Eco are most likely correct based on their firmness rating.
The specs you listed for the Sustain are closer to the specs of the Nature except with the top layer of fast response Talalay (which doesnât come in 19 ILD) replaced with their regular blended Talalay (which does come in 19 ILD). It also includes the descriptions of two different covers and the organic cover seems to have been âtacked onâ to the description as an afterthought. They arenât likely to be correct.
The specs you listed for the Sustain are closer to the specs of the Nature except with the top layer of fast response Talalay (which doesnât come in 19 ILD) replaced with their regular blended Talalay (which does come in 19 ILD). It also includes the descriptions of two different covers and the organic cover seems to have been âtacked onâ to the description as an afterthought. They arenât likely to be correct.
Phoenix[/quote]
Phoenix, I think youâre correct, as usual
I found another website that I think provides a few more clues about the âSusrtainâ. This page claims that the âSustainâ uses the âsecond-firmest all-natural talalay latex core used in the Pure Latex Bliss lineupâ. Since Latex International shows only two all-natural cores, N4 and N5, Iâm guessing this is referring to the N4, with an ILD between 30 and 35 (The âEcoâ seems to use N5). The same page claims the top comfort layer is 2" of âmedium-plushâ talalay. Iâm guessing thatâs an N2 layer. The next layer is specified as âmedium-firmâ, which Iâm guessing is N3, although N4 could also fall in that range. If Iâm correct, this might be another reason the mattress seems firmer than the âNatureâ and âNutritionâ models. Of course this is speculation, and this new web site could be as wrong as the other, but the details seem a little bit closer to the actual mattress.
I hadnât noticed initially that LI and PLB only warrant the Organic Collection for 10 years instead of 20 for the Ultimate Collection. Ten years doesnât seem like that much for such an expensive mattress. I know youâve said that blended Latex wears slightly better than 100% natural latex, but a 2x difference seems like a lot.
The exact combination of layers is academic because I did like the feel of the mattress when I tested it. And although I know youâve recommended against paying too much attention to reviews, Iâm a bit concerned about the lack of either positive or negative reviews for the âOrganic Collectionâ and the potential lack of longevity of the materials.
Warranties arenât an indication of the useful life of a mattress and I donât think that the blended would last twice as long. 20 year mattress warranties are more about marketing than anything else and in most cases people would end up replacing their mattress well before the end of a 20 year warranty period. A warranty only covers manufacturing defects (which usually show up very early in the life of a mattress) and not the gradual loss of comfort and support over time which is the most likely reason that people will end up replacing their mattress and after a decade or so the weakest link in the useful life of a mattress is very likely to be the changing needs and preferences of the person sleeping on it even if the mattress itself is still in good condition.
The âheat sensationâ could be several things, but some things that worked well for us are: more wool between you and the latex - people are different and we all have varying systems - the âheatâ may be a need for circulation. More wool could also provide that little extra cushion - rare does anyone point out that latex can and does often have a âpush backâ effect. Use a thick cotton cover - if the mattress you bought is the same that I tries (I do believe it is) there is little between sheet and latex.
It could even be as simple as a position change that has occured - new beds often shift us without our knowledge and the body must adjust.
Whether you use a wool puddle pad and a cotton encasement, or thicker wool layer - of all the things you will need is for air to get to your body while sleeping. Talalay is more porous than Dunlop - but it is still rubber - it took some time to get it all sorted out. The human body is amazing, but it can dumbfound sometimes - both of us ended up with a small version of a body pillow, that fixed the problem in the end.
Are you sleeping under natural bed linens? Any sort of poly will trap heat, moisture especially with a latex mattress.
