Question - Switching from iSeries Insight to iSeries Initiative Plush/Firm - American Mattress

Greeings all-

I’ve been following these forums for a year with avid interest and appreciate everyone’e expertise.

Here’s my issue. Last year, I bought an iComfort Genius Queen Mattress. It was my first “grown up adult professional” bed purchase. It ended up being way too firm so I downgraded three months later (via my Sleep Comfort Guarantee) to an iComfort Insight mattress, which I’ve had for the past 11 months. I’ve still had tons of pain subsequently – stiff upper back between the shoulder blades, stiff shoulders, head/neck/migraine pain, and even lower back/pelvis pain. I’m a 30 year old male, 5’10, 185 lbs side and back sleeper (alternating). I’ve spent tons of money on self care/chiropractic/acupuncture/physical therapy, you name it, the past year. I can’t take it anymore and need to make a change!

A bit more background: I read all of the forums on mattress toppers and decided to try this Extra Plush double-thick Fitted Topper as a first stop-gap measure: Amazon.com. It seemed to cool the mattress down a bit and offer nominal support, but my joints still really hurt, and I’m starting to realize that a total memory foam mattress just might not be for me. I think because most of my weight is in my mid-section, I sink down in ways that screw up my alignment and my shoulders are perpetually sore from the firmness of the memory foam mattress that I currently have (iComfort Insight). Toppers are difficult to return (even with generous return policies) and so I don’t want to do any more experimentation with toppers…although I’m curious if a 2-3" memory foam topper on my memory foam mattress might work…?

I know that going with a big box mattress store was a huge mistake, but now that I’m stuck with this mattress, the only option American Mattress (in Chicago, IL) is offering me is an exchange for $970 (the price of my original mattress alone) after I pay a $300 fine (basically some sort of new “sleep guarantee” charge). American Mattress stores only sell Serta and Tempur pedic. Within the Serta models, there are plain coil mattress, hybrid foam/coil mattresses, and fancier versions of iComfort.

The ones that are relatively in my price range are the iSeries Initiative Plush or Firm Queen Mattresses. Here’s a link: http://www.americanmattress.com/serta-isr-initiative-plush.html Here are the components/measurements…

Initiative Firm
1" PillowSoft Foam = 1.2 pcf; 17.5 lbs iLD
1" Support Foam = 1.3 pcf; 50 lbs iLD
1" Cool Action Dual Effects Gel Memory
Foam = 3.6 pcf; 6-10 lb iLD

Initiative Plush
2 ½" PillowSoft Foam = 1.2 pcf; 17.5 lb iLD
1" Cool Action Dual Effects Gel Memory
Foam = 3.6 pcf; 6-10 lb iLD

Most of their foams are High Density (1.8 pcf or higher) and High Resiliency (2.5 pcf or higher)

Phoenix and others, please advise me on what to do given the various limitations I’ve mentioned here (needing to stick with American Mattress, concerned about memory foam, realizing that firmer mattresses breakdown less quickly but might be harder on a side sleeper’s shoulder, etc).

Thank you very much for your time!

Hi rkk5000,

A softer foam topper would likely be a better choice than a synthetic fiber topper on a memory foam mattress. A fiber topper will only provide some cushioning under the pressure points of the body but it will provide very little primary support (under the heavier parts of the body) or secondary support (under the more recessed parts of the body such as the waist or the small of the back) and won’t redistribute weight along the body surface as well as a foam material. There is more about primary and secondary support in post #4 here. A topper can also affect the amount of body heat that reaches the memory foam which and can affect how it contours to your body which can make the memory foam underneath it feel firmer.

Your insight mattress also isn’t a “total memory foam mattress” and only has 2.75" of gel memory foam in the comfort layers and then has a 1.5 lb polyfoam support core underneath this. Memory foam is only used for comfort or transition layers but is too soft to be used as a support layer.

Unfortunately you are in a difficult position and somewhat stuck in between a “rock and a hard place” when you need to exchange a major brand mattress for another one when none of the mattress carried by the store you are limited to would be a particularly good choice.

There are many other forum members that have been in a similar position and the information in post #2 here includes some “strategies” than can help you make the best out of a difficult position.

There is also more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase (or exchange) in post #13 here but the most important factor is always how well a mattress matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP and the most reliable way to know this is your own personal testing or sleeping experience on either a mattress or a mattress/topper combination (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

The quality/durability of the materials and components in a mattress is number two and I can certainly help you assess this so you can identify any possible weak links in a mattress and make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. Post #4 here also has some guidelines for foam quality and density and that can help identify any weak links in a mattress.

Assuming that the specs include all the materials and are correct … the top 2" of this mattress uses low quality materials that by themselves would be “on the edge” of being a weak link in the mattress (more than “about an inch or so” of lower density materials). The memory foam underneath it is also slightly lower than the minimum density for memory foam that I would normally suggest (4 lbs) although it’s only just outside the range. Overall this would be a somewhat risky choice in terms of durability because there are 3" of lower density materials in the top layers of the mattress.

This one would be worse because it has 2.5" of low quality/density foam in the top layer which is also softer and this would be an obvious weak link even without the 3.6 lb gel memory foam underneath it which is also “on the edge”. This mattress would be even more risky in terms of durability than the first one you listed.

You may be misreading the specs or confusing memory foam specs with polyfoam specs but there is no 1.8 lb or higher polyfoam in either of these mattresses and there is also no HR polyfoam in them either (you won’t generally find either of these materials in the comfort layers of the major brands).

Your Insight mattress uses higher quality comfort layers than both of these mattresses (2.75" of @ 4 lb gel memory foam). If there are no mattresses there that are less risky or use thinner layers of lower quality materials in the comfort layers then I would still consider adding a topper to your current mattress to provide the additional pressure relief that you need because even though it can involve some trial and error or the need to return a topper if you make a mistake … by choosing a supplier with a good return or exchange policy you would probably end up with a better mattress/topper combination than choosing a mattress there that would be both suitable for you and used durable materials with no obvious weak links … and it would probably end up being less costly as well.

I know you mentioned that you’ve read them … just in case you haven’t or have read some other topper posts … if you do decide to use a topper then post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to has more information and sources that can help you make the most suitable and least risky topper choice.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

Thank you for this prompt and comprehensive response. I will re-consult your posts on foam toppers. I’ve heard mixed things about adding a memory foam topper to an iComfort memory foam mattress, but I trust your advice. What do you think about this option? It’s 4 lbs and 3inches of foam…Does it match your specifications? Lots of Amazon reviews:

Queen Size 3 Inch Thick, 4 Pound Density Visco Elastic Memory Foam Mattress Pad Bed Topper. Made in the USA

Amazon.com

Thanks again!

One more quick question – isn’t it possible that adding a 2-3" memory foam topper will further put my pelvis out of alignment when sleeping? I’ve been somewhat perplexed with your feedback to others on this issue, Phoenix, and wonder what you’d say directly to me – given the fact that I am a back/side sleeper experiencing both lower and upper back pain.

Hi rkk5000,

As you can see in post #13 here … I don’t pay much attention to mattress reviews … or topper reviews (either good or bad) because one person’s “too firm” can be another person’s “too soft” and specifics of the mattress under a topper will also have a significant effect on how it feels.

There are too many variables and unknowns for me to know how well a topper will work for you on your mattress (outside of the generic topper guidelines that are based on your own experience) because I can’t feel what you feel and I don’t have any personal experience on this topper in combination with a mattress that is similar to yours and different memory foams can have very different properties even if they are the same density (see post #9 here and post #8 here).

In terms of quality/density though a 4 lb memory foam is inside the guidelines for the quality/density range that I would consider.

As I mentioned previously … knowing the details of their return or exchange policies would likely become one of the most important parts of a topper purchase if you need to do some trial and error and aren’t certain that a specific topper will work well for you in combination with your mattress.

It’s possible yes but again it’s not possible to “diagnose” the reason for someone’s specific pain or discomfort on a specific mattress with any certainty because there are too many unknowns and variables involved (particularly if there are pre-existing conditions that aren’t connected to a mattress) and it would be much like a doctor trying to diagnose back issues on a forum without being able to see or examine a patient. Having said that … post #2 here and the posts it links to has much more information about the most common symptoms on a mattress and some of the reasons that can cause them (to the degree that they are related to the mattress) that can help with the “detective work” that may be necessary to identify the specific source or sources of any symptoms you are experiencing.

With a mattress that is too firm (and your mattress is on the firmer end of the scale which is part of the reason that I’m suspecting it may be too firm) it’s quite possible that you are “twisting” away from pressure points and some of your back issues are related to rotational alignment issues (twisting of the back and spine) and not just from horizontal alignment issues.

It can take some trial and error to “fix” a complex set of symptoms and there could be multiple causes for many symptoms as well so it may not all be from a single cause (pillow issues for example can play a role in upper body symptoms) but the most effective way to identify the types of changes that are most likely to succeed is to use your own experiences as a reference point and “pointer” by contrasting and comparing how your symptoms and experiences change on a mattress/topper combination compared to the mattress by itself. The changes between two sleeping systems (which symptoms improve and which get worse) can act as a reference point and can help “point the way” to any further changes (thicker or thinner toppers or firmer or softer toppers) that may be necessary or that have a higher chance of success when you can’t test a specific combination in person before you purchase a topper.

Phoenix

Thanks again, Phoenix. This all very helpful. I’ve been poring over your previous posts and all the hyperlinked posts you suggested. I wonder, given my circumstances, would you recommend a 2" 5 lb memory foam mattress topper or a 2 or 3" 4 lb memory foam mattress topper? I am 5’10/185 lbs and wondering about the difference between 2 or 3" (I don’t want to sink too much and am a side sleeper) and the diff btw 4 lbs and 5 lbs in density (somewhere I saw you note that 5 lbs was best for people over 200 lbs, but now I can’t seem to find that anywhere). Please and thank you!

Hi rkk5000,

As I’ve mentioned earlier … there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to know what would work best for you based on a formula, specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) so I don’t make specific recommendations (outside of the more general suggestions in the posts I linked) … especially when I don’t have any specific reference points of mattress/topper combinations that you have tried and how they worked for you.

In most (but not all) cases … 5 lb memory foam will tend to be firmer than 4 lb memory foam but there is more information about memory foam density and topper thicknesses in post #8 here which is one of the links in the post I mentioned earlier. In terms of durability … the foam density guidelines here also suggest being cautious and reducing or minimizing memory foam under 5 lb density once you are in the low 200 lb range or higher.

Phoenix