Questions about foam mattress pads (semi-diy mattress)

[phoenix]

Hi aehome,

As suspected, the 3" topper was awful and way too soft. I ended up trying a 2" 5lb Sensus memory foam topper from absolutecomfort, since I’ve already returned a topper with them and the process was very straight forward. Since I ordered one morning out of desperation, I failed to call first to confirm the firmness- I assumed a higher density meant more firm, which was of course a rookie mistake. It’s an improvement, but still too soft- I tried under the latex and over the latex; over is slightly better but I’m still waking up with middle-back pain, so I don’t think I’m supported enough.

The firmness of memory foam (ILD) depends a lot on several factors including temperature, humidity, and time of compression as well as the individual perceptions of each person (people feel firmness in different ways and memory foam can feel firm when you move into areas that haven’t softened or with faster movements and soft if you have been lying down in the same position for a while). Sensus is firmer than other memory foams but everything changes depending on the conditions of use and on all the other factors involved and the other layers of the mattress.

The thing is, I’m worried that what makes them so comfortable is the low quality pillow top materials- it seems like the way to get that springy-yet-soft pillowtop feel that I like is through low-quality polyfoam combined with some kind of synthetic stuffing. Obviously there’s a reason that this is the first part of the mattress to go for the S brands!

There are two types of polyfoam specs. Once of these is quality specs (which is primarily density) and the other is comfort specs which is about the specs that contributes to how it feels. The two are not really related and any quality of polyfoam can have softer and firmer versions and different layering combinations that will affect what you feel. in other words you can’t feel the quality of the foam you are lying on … only the comfort specs and how the design interacts with you. When you test mattresses where the specs aren’t disclosed all you can really know is that some combination of polyfoam (or any other materials that are in the mix) work for you to whatever degree but there is no way to use your experience as a model for a mattress because you won’t know any of the specifics of the materials either in terms of quality or in terms of comfort. The reason that they use lower density materials is because they are much less costly not because of how they contribute to the feel of the mattress. Higher quaity polyfoam in a similar or equivalent combination would feel very similar.

I’ve been looking at the recommended manufacturers on here, and haven’t really seen a separate pillow top style pad that you can buy in my price range. As far as mattresses go, if I buy a new one it can’t be innerspring (won’t make it onto my second floor), and it seems like most of the foam bed manufacturers are for people who wouldn’t want a barrier between the foam and them (they want to feel the latex or memory foam that they’re paying for, which makes sense).

If you are referring to a polyfoam topper or layer (similar to what would be in some pillowtop mattresses) then the topper post I linked to earlier has a link to several online foam sources that sell polyfoam. (post #4 here). You won’t often find a polyfoam comfort layer over latex (unless it’s just a thinner layer in the quilting or mixed in the comfort layers) because it would defeat much of the purpose of a latex mattress. Some of the larger manufacturers do this such as the Stearns & Foster Luxury Latex mattresses which are sold as being a “latex mattress” but you are sleeping on several inches of cheap polyfoam which generally softens and breaks down long before the latex comfort layers (typically in around the 3-5 year mark and often sooner).

I guess my question is, am I missing a (recommended) online site that has foam beds with pillowtops? Or is there a quality mattress pad that resembles the feel of one? The closest I could find was a talalay/wool topper from Magicsleeper.com, but at $600 I might as well invest in a new mattress! Would a soft hd or hr polyfoam give a similar feel? I suspect a straight wool topper won’t be the same either (although I am considering it).

To approximate the “feel” of a pillowtop you would need to know the specs of the materials that were used in the specific pillowtop you tested and ir you were buying a different material than what was in the pillowtop you would also have to “translate” from one material to another because the specs aren’t consistent between materials. Unfortunately if you can’t find out the details of the pillowtop you tried the there would be no way to even guess at what might approximate it … especially if you are using another material.

I just feel like I need a cushy/springy barrier against the foam; I’m learning that sleeping right up against both latex and memory foam aren’t allowing me to sink in evenly (my butt sinks lower than my shoulders every time…)

I would avoid the tendency to categorize all latex or all memory foam or all polyfoam in a single blanket assessment. There are different types as well as softer and firmer and thicker and thinner versions of memory foam, latex, and polyfoam and it’s usually the design and the firmness options and layer combinations that create alignment not the material itself.

When you are designing your own mattress then there can be a great deal of trial and error involved before you get to a design that fits your needs and preferences. Even manufacturers will tell you that trial and error is a big part of the design process in trying to get to the design goals they have in mind and they will often replace and change out layers many times before they are satisfied with the overall feel and performance of the mattress and how all the layers interact. There could be many people of your height and weight and sleeping style for example that did well on the layers you have already tried and yet for others it doesn’t work as well. It makes sense though that if 2" was still too soft that a thinner layer may be the next step. I would also keep in mind that many people of your weight may find the Dunlop latex you are using a little too firm so you may want to consider a softer material on top rather than underneath the latex.

On a slightly unrelated topic, is there that much of a difference between springs and hd/hr foam (I keep forgetting which one is higher density) in terms of feel/support if I’m not a heavy person and won’t be right up against them anyway? Assuming I go for quality materials, of course.

Yes … springs have a different response curve than polyfoam and there are also different types of springs that are very different from each other (again there isn’t a single description that would apply to all springs or all polyfoam because there is a huge variety of different types of both). It would also depend on the specifics of the layers above the support core (either springs or polyfoam) and if there were thicker layers on top of either springs or polyfoam then the difference between springs and polyfoam would be less noticeable because the comfort layers would isolate you from either. As you also mentioned lighter people will feel less of the deeper layers of a mattress but if you were to “bounce” on the mattress or with larger movements then the difference between springs and polyfoam would be much more noticeable because springs are more … springy.

HD (high density) polyfoam is normally fine for the base layer of a mattress and there isn’t really a need to use the higher quality HR which would generally be more appropriate for a comfort layer. HR polyfoam is more resilient and elastic and HD tends to be less resilient and “stiffer”. HD (high density) polyfoam is generally in the 1.5 to 2.5 lb range. HR (high resilience) polyfoam is at least 2.5 lbs density, has a compression modulus of 2.4 or higher, and a resilience of 60% and has some of the more desirable qualities of latex although it’s still not as durable.

Phoenix