There are a couple of PLB dealers out in Brooklyn apparenty, but I’m not sure I trust myself to competently conduct that comparison test even if I did make the schlep.
My only other choices at Dixiefoam if I did exchange my mattress would be 6" inch latex mattresses, or different types of mattresses all together. (I guess I could pay more for a custom made thicker latex, but at that point, I would probably be better off trying toppers.)
Are you saying you think the odds are low that any 6" latex mattresses would work for me?
Ironically, my back really doesn’t seem to mind sleeping on my stomach on this mattress, but my hips are killing me from what I’m guessing is my side sleeping. And I don’t think I can recall my hips ever hurting before from any bed I’ve ever slept on. This ia brand new problem area.
Each person is different so there is no way for me to know this. It will work well by itself for some and not as well for others depending on the many combinations of body type, sleeping style, and preferences. The key with a single layer is choosing the type and ILD of the latex that can provide you with the combination of softness on top and support underneath that is the best match for your particular circumstances. The challenge with a single layer is that it can be difficult to find the right balance between the two in a single layer but if you do find a single layer that has the balance between pressure relief and support that you need then there would be no advantage in changing to something else.
With multiple layers then you can design the bottom layers for support and the upper layers for pressure relief independently. You are primarily a stomach sleeper that spends 3/4 of your time on your stomach (although many people’s self assessment of their sleeping positions isn’t accurate according to studies and many stomach sleepers spend much less time than they believe on their stomach) which indicates the need for thinner and firmer comfort layers that are “just enough” to relieve pressure to the degree that is necessary for the time they spend sleeping on their sides. For stomach sleepers that generally need a firmer surface then a single layer has better odds of success than it would for a “typical” side sleeper and if it needs some “extra” softness on top then it’s not difficult to add a topper and build the comfort you need on top of the firmer support core which is providing you with the support/alignment you need.
With a thinner latex mattress it can also be worthwhile looking at a more flexible base underneath it (flexible slats or an active box spring or a system that flexes under pressure) to provide any extra “give” you may need under your pressure points. This can retain a firmer surface (if you need or prefer this) and still provide a little more “give” under your pressure points. There are many manufacturers that sell a combination of box spring and a thinner 6" latex mattress for example which works very well for many people because the box spring add the amount of give they need to compensate for the firmness of the mattress. You already have the support system you need so adding some extra softness either under or over it could both be good options.
This goes to my previous comments that the mattress you have is providing good support for your much more risky stomach sleeping position but it may just need a little bit of extra softness to accommodate your side sleeping which is more prone to pressure points. the thinnest firmest comfort layer that will relieve pressure on your side will have the least risk of maintaining the good support you need on your stomach.
You could well be right about how much time I spend in various positions. I’ve come to realize that I sleep on my side a little more than I thought – or at least, would like to do so in a perfect world. I think discomfort on my side is often how/why i end up on my stomach.
So, here is what we know so far:
1.) I can’t switch bases, since I have an adustable bed. So any sort of box spring/slats solution is out.
My mattress does seem to work well so far for stomach sleeping.
My mattress is not working well for side sleeping since my hips hurt a lot (and all day too!) So I’d like to address that very soon.
Then we look at my realistic/limited options:
Switch to another 6", less firm latex mattress, or another type of matttess all-together. (Dixiefoam does not have a huge selection, nor thicker latex.) And hope that the increased softness of a different 6" mattress would also provide enough support.
Skip the mattress switch and the attendant risks of that, and stick with what I have, and start playing around with toppers.
What I would do would depend on what was available to me to test and how it compared with any other options you may have.
If you can test a mattress or a mattress/topper combination in person and verify with confidence that it fits your needs and preferences in all your sleeping positions (and this may involve spending enough time on the mattress or combination that you could tell with reasonable certainty), then that is the direction I would go because it’s less risky than trying to add a topper that you haven’t tried. If this isn’t possible or there aren’t any specific mattresses (or mattress/topper combinations) that you test in person that appear to work well for you … then I would add a topper based on the guidelines in post #2 here and the posts it links to.
I spoke to Mark a few minutes ago. He suggested I try a 1 or 2" memory foam topper from a place like Bed, Bath, and Beyond or Macy’s that has a good return policy. He said if that doesn’t work, maybe an exchange for a diffferent mattress of his would be worth exploring.
So I think that’s what i shall do!
Any thoughts on any particular toppers at Macy’s or BBB that people like – or that I should avoid? I see Macy’s has a 1.5" sensor gel one that caught my eye.
Mark mentioned there was some sort of blue colored gel one people have told him they like, so maybe this it?
I would use the same guidelines as any mattress material. The density determines the quality and durability of memory foam and I would pay particular attention to the return policy as well because you will be going by trial and error to some degree and a good return policy means the risk is lower if it doesn’t work out for you. It would also help to deal with people who are informed and knowledgeable so that they can provide you with accurate details of how the toppers they sell may compare to others and perhaps provide some good guidance as well.
There are many many of these (most companies color their gel foams blue to imply cooling although there are other colors as well) so I have no idea which one in particular he may have meant.
I think I’ll just take the plunge and grab this particular one from macy’s tonight, or perhaps another one if it strikes my fancy. Macy’s seems to have an excellent return policy. Unfortunately I’m pressed for time in that I can’t spend a couple of days researching, finding experts, or ordering online and waiting for delivery and all that. I really want to get and test a topper asap while I’m still in my window to return my mattress if it comes to that.
Is there a post or a link that says what kind of 1 or 2" memory foam topper might be best, or what density, etc? (I like the idea of trying memory foam, so that’s the material I’d like to go with).
If it seems like a topper might indeed by the key, I can always return and find a better one.
There are some general guidelines for toppers in post #2 here and the posts it links to.
2" would be an “average” choice that provided a “fair bit” of pressure relief with less risk for alignment than a thicker topper.
In general terms … 4 lb memory foam will feel a little softer for most people than 5 lb memory foam although memory foam can be tricky because it changes firmness and response with different temperatures, humidity levels, and time on the mattress and different types of memory foam, even with the same density, can have quite different properties and feel.
So it’s been 3 or so nights with the new 1.5 memory foam topper. It seems to provide a little bit of relief for the hips while sleeping on the side, but still could be better. Haven’t had a great night’s sleep yet. Perhaps the 3" version of this would help even more?
Of course, the topper does seem to make stomach sleeping a bit more uncomfortable, and one would expect that to increase if I got the 3".
Perhaps it’s often not possible to get a set-up that works well for both positions?
If so, perhaps its wiser to making the side position work well, and then use a pillow under my hips while sleeping on the stomach to support my lower back. This has been what I’ve done in the past, and it can help a little.
I would tend to give any new combination as long as possible to be able to better evaluate it and let the materials break in a little to see how they do for pressure relief on your side after you have slept on it a little longer.
Having said that … a thinner comfort layer (memory foam or otherwise) is more typical for stomach sleepers and thicker layers will provide better pressure relief for side sleeping but at the risk of alignment issues for your stomach sleeping.
I tend to prioritize support/alignment over pressure relief/comfort because the risks and effects of sleeping out of alignment are greater than the risks and effects of not having enough pressure relief (which can also be fixed more easily) but a pillow under the pelvis/lower abdomen area is usually a good idea for stomach sleepers (along with a very think pillow under the head and one that can be scrunched up and made thicker when you move to your side). If you are confident that you will put it under your hips/lower abdomen when you change position to your stomach during the course of the night then as you mentioned it would reduce the risk of trying a thicker layer for your side sleeping.
I generally use no pillow at all when I sleep on my stomach.
I’m not positive I’d put the pillow underneath whilst sleeping, though usually discomfort will prompt me to do so, I’ve found.
I’d like to be able to switch almost entirely to side sleeping if possible, since I’ve been told by doctors and PT’s that side sleeping is the best, and that stomach is not good for back or for the neck, which I’ve also had issues with in the past. So I guess that’s why I’m ore focused on making that work and worrying less about the stomach. I figure if I can be very comfortable on my side, I’ll be able to sleep longer that way.
But I do realize that side sleeping has its own risks for the spine, in that the area between hips and shoulders can swag. I’ve certanly felt that at times in the past. So ideally I’d like to fill in that gap too.
As of now, my combo is not feeling great for my hips, and I’m thinking time alone wil not fix that.
Having said all this, I often get sore and achy during the day, from activities or sitting positions or who knows what, and I guess I should realize that suggests that no mattress/topper might ever work miracles for me. If I’m prone to pain and soreness while awake, I’m probably going to be prone to pain and soreness while sleeping, huh?
There is some debate about the 'best" sleeping position between back and side but there is general agreement that stomach sleeping is the most risky.
It may be worth trying a body pillow if you are working towards moving away from stomach sleeping.
Many people find it “comforting” to have something against the front of their body and feel too “open” when they sleep on their back or side and a body pillow can help with this when you are side sleeping (and prevent you from turning onto your stomach as well).
As you mentioned … side sleeping needs thicker comfort layers both to relieve pressure points and to help “fill in” the recessed gap in the waist and prevent the spine from “sagging”. The key is to make sure it is thick/soft enough to relieve pressure on the shoulders and allow them to sink in “just far enough” for the torso to begin bearing the load but not so thick that it allows the pelvis to sink down too far which in turn can “tilt” the pelvis. Pelvic tilt is the main contributor to lumbar alignment and lack of direct support under the recessed lumbar curve is a secondary contributor.
This may be true but it would depend on the root cause of the pain. Either way, while a mattress can’t cure pain that comes from physiological causes, it can at least provide you with the best chance to maintain neutral alignment and spinal decompression which can minimize any additional stresses that can occur while you are sleeping, allow the spine to rehydrate and maintain its flexibility, and provide the best chance for the natural healing processes of the body to function more effectively.
I actually have a body pillow that I’ve used sometimes, and do like it. Also have some big pillows that work fairly well for that as well. Don’t always feel the need for either one though.
I also once tried a McKenzie recommended roll around my waist to prevent sagging while side sleeping, but didn’t work that well.
There’s this TV commerical for iComfort I see sometimes, and they have this graphic of someone sleeping on their side and the mattress perfectly filling in that gap and I think “yes, that’s the ticket!”
I rarely sleep on my back, and don’t love it, so really it’s between stomach and side for me.
At least one cause of my pain is arthritis and stenosis and disc type issues. But could be others I’m unsure about. Still working on figuring this all out. And not loving that I have now I have some hip soreness from sleeping where there was none before!
I sort of doubt a different mattress would work much better for me – at least of what would be available from dixiefoam to choose from, which is either softer latex or their own softish memory foam. At least, I’m not hopeful enough about that possibility to go through the hassle of switching. Plus if I end up with something worse, or too soft, I guess I’m worse off than now, right?
Nor do I think this topper alone will do the trick. Maybe a thicker one is worth trying, or a different type?
(Also, can feather beds help in this cause? I suspect they probably don’t help much, but I sure did like the way it felt on that hotel bed in Puerto Rico. Can they be used on top of a memory foam or other topper as some sensory icing on the cake, or is that asking for trouble?)
All foam will do this to differing degrees in the right thickness and firmness which is the reason that different sleeping positions and different body types need different designs.
Again … this is the “conflict” between the needs of side sleeping and the needs of stomach sleeping (or other sleeping positions). The balance between pressure relief, primary support (which “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far), and secondary support (related to pressure relief and which “fills in” the gaps in the sleeping profile and which also helps to maintain the natural curvature of the spine) for different body types and sleeping positions is the basic idea behind all mattress theory and design.
Yes … you can always “correct” a mattress that is too firm but it’s much more difficult to “correct” a mattress that is too soft because you would need to remove and replace layers rather than just adding to them.
Thicker soft layers on top (either in the mattress or as a topper) will provide more “room” for your shoulders to sink deeper into the mattress and relieve pressure yes … but with more risk for alignment in your stomach sleeping position.
The key is “just enough” to accommodate your pressure relief needs for side sleeping so you can minimize the risk to good support and alignment when you sleep on your stomach.
Feather beds are more for “surface feel” and for some degree “point specific” pressure relief because they have little resilience and don’t distribute weight over a wide area (only around pressure points). they certainly don’t help with support for the recessed curves of the body because they are too soft and compress too easily to bear any weight or hold anything up.
How about laying a featherbed on top of a memory foam or other type of topper? Would that provide a nice surface feel while allowing the topper to do the real work, or is that gilding the lily in possibly harmful ways?
In any case, it seems like my best option mattress-wise is to stick with the firm mattress I have and try and work from there.
I may try a 3" memory topper next. Again, I’m focused primarily on coming up with a healthy and comfortable surface for side sleeping, as I hope to get away from stomach sleeping entirely and/or could use a pillow under the hips for added support. I’ll happily go with a mattress/topper that doesn’t work for the stomach if it DOES work well for the side.
I don’t know if it would be “nice” or “not nice” because this would depend on the preferences of the person. It would reduce the amount of heat reaching the foam which in turn would reduce (or slow down) the softening of the memory foam in response to heat which would change its feel and performance though.
You could also consider a slightly smaller increment of change (say 2" or 2.5"). You could also use higher density memory foam in thicker layers to “compensate” for the slightly greater thickness because they which also tend to be more “supportive” although they generally take a little longer to soften with heat than lower density foams.
Of course you also have the choice of polyfoam or latex toppers as well if you prefer fast response materials and a shredded latex topper could also be a good option because it allows the more pointy parts to sink in a little more deeply which maintaining support and resistance under the heavier parts.
Are their particular brands of shredded latex topper or foam that that are top quality? I’m not talking about general recommendations for reliable retailers, but specific model names and styles? As in “the top ranked shredded latex is the ABC topper by Acme, and the best memory foam topper is the Apex 2000 by Ronko” etc.
I wouldn’t know how to “rank” a shredded latex topper. All three of them are very different. Two of them have organic cotton covers, (if that’s what you mean by quality) and one of them has non organic cotton.
One of them has a zip cover that allows you to change the amount of shredded latex in each section to create softer and firmer sections and the other two are non customizable.
They each have different particle sizes which may affect the amount of displacement under your shoulders and the resilience of the topper latex (smaller particles won’t be as springy as larger particles and won’t displace as much).
They each have different amounts of latex in them, are different thicknesses, as well as different prices
A forum search on each of them will bring up more feedback about all three which may help you decide which one would be most suitable for your own criteria if you decide to go in this direction.