Entirely possible they could have lied.
Last night sleeping at 90 degrees was still much too soft. It was still sitting on the slat frame, so tonight it will go on the floor.
Hi Nat,
It looks to me like they were telling the truth and that the latex was subjected to continuous compression and temperature and has degraded to some degree. This is similar to a test they use to simulate long term wear where a material is subjected to heat and continuous compression for longer periods of time which simulates the effects of aging over a period of years in a much shorter period of time.
Phoenix
Hi sdmark,
That kind of weight … and the heat from the water (if it was warm) would probably be enough to do some damage to any foam material … including latex.
Phoenix
I’ve never owned a waterbed, and really underestimated the wear and tear on the Natura’s components. Hopefully my error will keep someone from the same mistake!
I’ve tried some other configurations since my last post: I removed the latex topper component and put it on my coil. I replaced the foam & wool topper onto the polyfoam base and tried that too. Nothing is perfect yet but I’m not quite done experimenting.
Hi Nat,
It will be interesting to see which configuration turns out to be the best for you after your experimentation and whether it’s close enough to consider tweaking it with any additional layers.
Phoenix
An update: we were sleeping with Natura’s super-soft latex and nice wool topper on our coil, but I was waking up with sore shoulders (my husband seemed fine). I switched the latex layer out for some cheap polyfoam from a cot, and I like that much better… but since it’s just small cot mattress, our queen sized bed is lop-sided.
A local shop was advertising Pure Latex Bliss mattress at 50% off on the radio. It’s the only all-latex mattress available to try in a 2 hour radius (I didn’t even know about it!). We spend roughly an hour in “daylight pyjamas” trying their Pamper, Beautiful and Nature mattress, with various combinations of hard box spring or proprietary latexBASE split box springs, then either a 2 or 3 topper (fast or soft).
The consensus was: the 12" latex Beautiful mattress (Queen on special at 1799 Cdn) with a 2" “fast response” topper (499 Cdn) on their regular box spring was the best for us both. The specs on the Beautiful can be found here.
The alignment wasn’t as great as the Green Sleep Dolchezza for me, although I may be idealizing that visit. It’s a 7 hour drive to the Dolchezza, and about twice the price/outside my budget.
I had plans to order online from SleepEZ or Mattresses.net despite the long return drive to the border because we could customize our sides and return layers for adaptable comfort. But without trying them first, I have to use specs to guesstimate my best fit (somewhere between the Talalay of the PLB Beautiful and the Dunlop SMF Green Sleep Dolchezza). Also, the Canadian dollar has tanked since I first wrote this thread, and the price difference isn’t that much now. Locally I would have to pay tax and deal with a pretty crummy exchange policy (“anything else in the store!” …except most of what they have is overpriced coil, memory foam and Natura…), but I could TRY it first. Dilemma.
Is the 1799 price tag worth the crummy exchange policy of my local brick & mortar store?
(or would I be better off buying slabs from Arizona and picking up at the border?)
Should I try to re-create the Dolchezza? Are the specs somewhere?
First of all, I applaud your DIY efforts!
I know most of this discussion has been about the latex of your mattress and not the wool, but if you want to renew your wool topper, you can. The woolen mill that cards my wool will reloft your wool batting and even take it apart from that quilted case it is in. They will clean the wool, add more wool in to replace what was lost in the cleaning process and recard it. Then they will sew it up in a new case.
St. Peter Woolen Mill does all my custom work and I would highly recommend them if this is a project you want to tackle. They can even work with fabric of your choosing or their standard unbleached muslin. Their website is difficult, but you always get the owner on the phone. http://www.woolenmill.com/sections/Wool_Processing.php
Hi Nat,
Thanks for the update … I appreciate it.
[quote]Is the 1799 price tag worth the crummy exchange policy of my local brick & mortar store?
(or would I be better off buying slabs from Arizona and picking up at the border?)
Should I try to re-create the Dolchezza? Are the specs somewhere? [/quote]
This would really be a matter of “best judgement”, your confidence in your testing on the Beautiful (and the likelihood that you will need an exchange) and the importance to you of having good exchange options. In terms of whether you would be better off ordering the layers separately along with a stretch knit cover similar to the Beautiful it would depend on whether you were able to buy the same layers in the same ILD and a very similar cover and how the final cost of doing so compared to the Beautiful.
The exchange process with the Dolcezza would be more flexible and have more options after a purchase. The price of the Beautiful is certainly good (assuming that it’s new and not a comfort exchange or a warranty return and still has the original manufacturers warranty). You can see the design specs of the Dolcezza here but they are not specific about the density and of course they provide options for the layers so their “comfort specs” will vary with the specific choice that their customers make. Density or ILD numbers may also not be accurate or specific so it may be difficult to “approximate” another mattress unless you know for sure that the layers you are trying to approximate are the same as the ones you are considering purchasing. You can read about one retailer’s ILD “guesses” about the Greensleep layers in post #15 here and Greensleep’s comments about them. Even if you are provided with density specs (which is normally a more reliable way to compare Dunlop) they may not be correct in some cases (see post #2 here). Trying to match one mattress to another would require good confidence that you know all the specs of the mattress you are trying to approximate that the type of latex, the thickness of each layer, and the ILD or density of each layer along with the specifics of the cover are very close (see post #9 here about matching one mattress to another).
At the end of the day the most important part of the “value” of a purchase and what you will remember the most is the quality of your sleep over the years and the length of time you were able to sleep on it and although the initial price of a mattress will always be an important factor … it may not be as important a part of each person’s personal value equation as their confidence that a mattress is a good match in terms of PPP or the options they have after a purchase if it isn’t. All of this would be part of each person’s final choice once they have eliminated the worst options and are choosing between good and good.
I also agree with diynaturalbedding’s comments about St Peter’s Woolen mill and I also found them very helpful and informative (see post #3 here).
Phoenix
For what it’s worth, I own a Green Sleep (similar to the dolcezza but not identical). A few notes
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I’m trying to match the green sleep latex to be even semi close to a new purchase I’m making, and even with owning one it’s a challenge. I’ve calculated the density of the green sleep latex I own (which is 100% NR Dunlop latex) and my calculated amounts do not well coorelate with other vendors and are measurably outside what I’d have expected. Once I get another vendors latex (probably coco latex) I can comment on this better. I’m reluctant to say more since the variance is significant and really does need to be independently verified. Also, it’s semi academic, since density/ild is largely a comfort spec.
-
the green sleep latex is lightly zoned (basically bigger /more pincore holes to soften) with slightly firmer middle/hip region latex.
-
the green sleep mattress case is very high quality and significantly impacts the feel of the mattress, even more so with the dolcezza. It has about half an inch of quilted compressed wool inside it, and with the dolcezza a semi integrated soft latex later / topper.
-
the green sleep mattresses are often/ usually showcased on a green sleep foundarion. The s-200 in particular has a bit of give as a slat based foundarion, and if you don’t use it will firm up the mattress a bit. The s-300 is more rigid I found, but also has a suspension effect.
Ah, thanks everyone.
diynaturalbedding: I’m in Canada so sending things to MN to re-card would be tricky, plus my “topper” ripped from the Natura is both wool and polyfoam.
dn: The zoning in the Green Sleep you mentioned would explain why my hip alignment was superior on the Dolchezza compared to all other mattresses so far. Not a good sign for my ability to DIY a version though. Pity.
phoenix: thanks for reminding me I’m picking between good and good.
I’ll go back to the store and re-try the PLB, making sure to ask whether they are selling off brand new mattresses or warranty returns.
You can get zoned dunlop latex pretty easily. There’s 3, 5, even 7 zone that I’ve seen. I don’t know about zoned talalay although I’m inclined to say it’s harder to find or isn’t made that way. You can, if you are creative, do your own zoning similar to how FloBeds does it. Finding a cover, on the other hand, seems much harder (and don’t underestimate the price for a quality cover).
Oh yes… The s-200 and s-300 bases are zoned too, firmer in hip area. So that also contributes!
Hi Nat,
You’ve probably seen this but just in case you haven’t post #21 here has a list of some of the better retailers or manufacturers that ship across Canada that may also be useful to you.
Phoenix
Hi Nat, I didn’t realize you were in Canada. I am too.
I buy most of my beddings and got my green sleep mattresses from tmasc.ca, who I have had absolutely wonderful experiences with and recommend to everyone I know. Their product and knowledge is top knotch. The also happened to specialize in Green Sleep. That said, tmasc doesn’t really do a lot of DIY construction. Tmasc is a member here 
For DIY stuff, I’ve enjoyed sleepys.ca out of Kelowna (although they do full beds, mattresses, and furniture too). Their owner, Geoff, is a very knowledgeable person, and their prices have been very competitive. I especially like their passion for beds, knowledge, and that they use higher quality materials. They were one of the only to have a non-chinese-import 100% organic cotton 4-way stretch knit topper cover, with the good material on all sides, by example (topper covers often have a cheap material on the bottom side making it so you can’t flip the topper).
It was funny - I’d called all over in the USA and Canada, and everyone was telling me about their cheap or free topper covers, which really disappointed me. I couldn’t find a high quality 100% organic cotton stretch knit anywhere. I called Sleepys.ca and inquired about their topper covers without mentioning what kind I was looking for, and Geoff was apologetic, saying all he offered was a 100% organic cotton stretch knit with fabric made in Canada, or one like that but with wool…he apologized because most people calling wanted it free with a topper, or cheap like other online dealers, and his was a bit more expensive. …anyhow, I was sold from then on, and yes I did buy one and getting an identical full mattress case.
The Sleepys.ca website isn’t useful for DIY, you need to call or email them if interested. That said, I’ve been paying about $100/inch of latex for a twinxl (twinxl being half a king) for blended talalay or organic dunlop from them.
After reading all the links for an online purchase, we decided to buy from our local brick & mortar store. My husband couldn’t handle the thought of experimenting with online purchases, especially if it involved long drives or expensive shipping - he is really sick of me researching and debating this mattress purchase! So the compromise was to find the best PPP for us from the Pure Latex Bliss models at the store.
The reps weren’t knowledgeable at all so I wouldn’t particularly recommend the place. Upon returning to try the 3 PLB models (paying closer attention to alignments this time, straight edge in hand) we ended up with the 10" Nature for $1299 CDN plus two PLB pillows thrown in for free. The Beautiful model was cushiest but the straight edge showed us our best alignments were with the Nature + topper. I’m hoping to re-use the 2" Talalay topper from the Natura to save the $500 and only upgrade toppers if needed.
No regrets two hours post-purchase, and pick-up is planned for tomorrow evening. Marriage saved! We could get an exchange if it turns out terribly, and store credit for other furniture I guess (if we didn’t want a coil). Will update here when the dust settles.
Hi Nat,
If you were able to buy a new Nature for $1299 with two free pillows then you certainly did really well in terms of quality and value … and congratulations on your new mattress
I think you did some very good research and it appears some good testing as well (with your straight edge) so it seems to me you made a great choice in spite of dealing with salespeople who were probably less knowledgeable than you.
I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.
That’s the best news of all!!!
Phoenix
One month+ after the new mattress was implemented, and I thought I’d post an update. The configurations we tried:
- Our new PLB Nature on our old box spring, sitting in the sleigh bed frame. Unfortunately it was sagging PLUS giving me lumbar pain. We slept 1.5 weeks to make sure, but finally I caved after another sore morning.
- PLB Nature directly on the slated platform base I bought for the Natura. Lumbar pain and should pain for me every morning. I gave it a week just in case. I was also starting to worry, and started researching zoning.
- My husband actually convinced me to try a softer base before adding zoned pieces on top. So we threw the PLB on top of our old coil mattress directly on the floor. No pain on in my lower back, no pain in my shoulders, extreme comfort for me. This has been the case for 2.5 weeks. I look forward to going to bed every evening and sleeping very well.
Now he is retrofitting the sleigh bed with plywood so we can move off the floor. We have sacrificed the complete lack of motion transfer that I loved in the latex for a pain-free (and inexpensive) option of using our old coil base. One day we may upgrade to a proper base (open to suggestions), but until my bank balance recovers this will work just fine. I’m hoping to resell the platform and maybe even the king sized latex topper to recoup some of my initial investment in the King that didn’t work.
Thanks again!
Hi Nat,
Thanks for the update.
Your solution is certainly "creative"and unusual to say the least but the bottom line is that it works and results are always more important than anything else
Some of the other options that would provide some “give” under your mattress include a box spring with springs (may local manufacturers still make them) or a base with flexible slats (some of which can be zoned under certain parts of the body) but they would likely have less flex than your mattress so I’m not sure how they would compare to using your mattress.
Pure Latex Bliss also has a foundation that has 4" of latex on top of it that would add some extra softness and thickness under your mattress.
You could also try some “relatively” soft polyfoam under your mattress in between the mattress and the plywood but this also wouldn’t be an exact “match” compared to your innerspring mattress either (but at least it’s not a costly option to try).
Phoenix
One year out, and we are still sleeping beautifully on the unusual PLB-on-coil set-up.
No soreness to report, and blessedly all memories of our horrid sleeping issues had been forgotten until I re-read this thread.
Good sleep is worth the hassle and money.
Thanks Phoenix & members.
Hi Nat,
Thanks for the update … and it’s great to hear that things worked out so well for you
Phoenix