Eight years ago we bought a latex mattress (we have a solid platform) from Natural Bed Company. Recently my wife and I, both in our 60’s, have begun to wake up with neck and back pain. It seems the bed is too firm for us. I don’t know if the top layer latex pad had hardened or just that we need a softer mattress than 8 yrs. ago. We have started looking for options, and I’ve com across 2 contenders - very different in price. One is the Reverie bed (just the mattress) and the other is the Loom and Leaf luxurious mattress by Saatva. Any input would be helpful.The Reverie mattress is 3x as expensive as the L & L , but I know price may not be commensurate with performance.
Has anyone had experience with these 2 mattresses. What other mattresses should I be looking at?
Hi aemarcha,
There is more detailed information about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.
There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can make the types of changes or additions to your mattress that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing or decide whether to replace your mattress completely.
The most common (although not the only) cause for lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft which can allow the heavier parts of your body to sink in more deeply which can lead to sleeping out of alignment.
One of the most common causes for neck pain or other “upper body” symptoms is a pillow issue and your pillow may no longer be keeping your head and neck in good alignment.
Foam layers (including latex) will tend to soften over time rather than harden but the top layers of a mattress will tend to soften more than the deeper layers because they are the most subject to the ongoing compression and deflection from sleeping on a mattress which is what causes the gradual softening or breakdown of foam materials and if this is the case then then you could be sinking in more deeply into the mattress and could be feeling more of the firmness of the layers underneath it so as counter intuitive as it may be … in some cases foam softening can lead to a mattress that feels firmer.
I don’t know if your mattress has individual components that can be replaced but if it does then it’s certainly possible that replacing the top layer may solve back pain issue you are having. There are also some suggestions in post #4 here about a mattress that is too soft or has visible or virtual soft spots that may also be helpful as well.
As you also mentioned … it’s also possible that your individual needs and preferences have changed over time which can lead to a mattress “feeling” firmer as well. If your mattress is still in good condition and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress and all you need is some additional softness and pressure relief then adding a softer topper can be a good solution and there is also more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to that can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of as well.
In any case … if you are no longer sleeping well on a mattress and there are no other obvious causes or or solutions that can resolve your issues then either you would need to replace one or more individual layers inside your mattress or replace the mattress itself.
[quote] We have started looking for options, and I’ve com across 2 contenders - very different in price. One is the Reverie bed (just the mattress) and the other is the Loom and Leaf luxurious mattress by Saatva. Any input would be helpful.The Reverie mattress is 3x as expensive as the L & L , but I know price may not be commensurate with performance.
Has anyone had experience with these 2 mattresses. What other mattresses should I be looking at? [/quote]
These are two very different mattresses that use completely different materials and have very different designs. The Reverie Dream system is a latex mattress with a somewhat unique arrangement of zoned latex cylinders that they use for the support core of the mattress and the Loom and Leaf is a memory foam mattress. There is more about some of the differences between memory foam and latex in post #2 here but in general the choice of materials or the type of mattress you purchase would be a preference choice more than a “better/worse” choice. Since latex is a more durable material than memory foam the Reverie Dream system would likely be the more durable choice but the durability of a mattress is only one part of the “value” of a mattress purchase.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
I doubt that any of the members here have tried both mattresses to compare them but I would also be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).
I would also keep in mind that different people can have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare to each other based on differences in their body type, sleeping positions, mattresses they are used to sleeping on that they are using as a reference point, and their individual preferences and sensitivities that can affect how they “interact” with different mattresses.
While I can’t speak to how any mattress will feel to you in terms of PPP, you can see my comments about the Reverie Dream mattresses and the quality and durability of the materials inside them in posts #2 and #6 here. A forum search on Reverie Dream (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. will bring up more information about it as well. They are also a member of this site although you may be able to find their mattresses at a lower cost at other stores or at a Costco road show than they sell them on their site so their own prices may not be the best available.
There is more information about the quality of the materials in the Loom & Leaf in post #2 here (along with some of the other “simplified choice” mattresses) and a forum search on Loom Leaf (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about it as well
Since the most important part of “value” is how well you will sleep on a mattress … when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, any special considerations you may have, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs or firmness options to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.]
If you aren’t confident that a particular mattress will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then the exchange or return policies can also become a much more important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase as well.
Phoenix
Thanks for your detailed response. My Natural Bed (www.naturalbed.com - heaven and earth model) is layered, and I could change the top layer and see if it makes a difference. When I lie on my side there is no support at he waist. My hips do not compress enough to bring my waist in enough contact with the mattress to get support. That is why I think I need a softer upper layer. Am I right to analyze it that way? I am guessing I need differential support and therefore the attractiveness of the Reverie bed.
I’m 5’10", 235lbs and my wife is 5’2", 108lbs and we are both having the same issue.
Hi aemarcha,
It’s certainly makes sense “in theory” and it’s very possible that adding a softer layer would improve pressure relief and secondary support (which is the type of support that “fills in” the gaps in your sleeping profile) but of course the only way to know for certain will be based on your actual sleeping experience. If your mattress is too firm to provide good pressure relief or secondary support then adding a topper could also be well worth considering.
I certainly wouldn’t focus on whether a mattress uses a “differential” or a “progressive” construction because these are only very general and broad descriptive terms for how a mattress is layered and there is no inherent reason that either one would be better or worse in terms of PPP and either one could certainly make a good choice depending on the specifics of the materials and components and the overall mattress design and layering.
If by “differential” you meant “zoned” then zoning can help with more challenging body types or circumstances but it will always depend on whether the specific zoning pattern is a good “match” for your body type and sleeping style. There is more information about zoning in post #11 here and the posts it links to.
I would always keep in mind that the only way to know for certain whether any mattress will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP with any certainty will be based on your own personal experience.
Phoenix