Hi Mike7,
I’m not sure why you are insisting on pursuing such an argumentative stance in the forum but this is not the place to push points, “prove” that your own personal opinions are “right” for others" or continue arguing about what you are against or what you don’t like about anyone else’s approach to buying a mattress. The forum is to help you learn how to effectively buy a mattress that YOU consider to be good value.
Value itself has many components and is part of what I call each person’s “personal value equation”. This is the “value” of the complete mattress purchase (not just the mattress) and is unique to each person.
Part of this is the things you can feel (which I call PPP or Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Note the “preferences” part which is subjective and relative to each person. No matter what the value of any other part of a purchase … if a mattress isn’t suitable for you to sleep on then no matter what its quality, price, or value by any other definition it would have little value to you.
Part of this is the things you can’t feel which includes the type and quality/durability of the materials in the mattress the likely durability and useful life of the mattress as a whole, any weak links in the mattress, the “commodity value” of a mattress (such as 6" of latex would have higher “commodity value” than 3" of latex) and the material value of a mattress (such as 4" of 3 lb memory foam would have a lower material value than 4" of 5 lb memory foam).
Part of this is the the options and features that make each mattress unique that may be important to you. Examples of this may be the ability to make custom adjustments to a mattress or the relative value of organic certifications to each person.
Part of this is the “risk” of your purchase. In general online purchases that you can’t test in person would have a higher risk than a mattress you can test for PPP. This would also include any exchange or return policies of the retailer you are buying from.
Part of this is any extras or add ons that are included in your purchase such as a foundation, pillows, delivery, removal of an old mattress, or any other benefits included in the purchase besides just the mattress itself.
Part of this is the “value” of the knowledge, service, and options provided by the manufacturer or retailer where you are buying the mattress that can be one of the most important parts of making the best possible and most informed choice.
Part of this are the intangibles that are part of any purchase that may be important to you. An example of this may be your desire to support manufacturers that are based in a certain country or support a certain business for reasons that are important to you.
If you disagree with someone here (including me) then make your point and move on. Part of an “informed” and useful discussion is to also make your point about what you are “for” rather than only what you are against. Disagreement is part of every forum but pushing a point past certain limits is against the rules of the forum. You don’t need to be “right” … you need to be informed so you can learn how to make a choice that is best for you.
The “value” of a mattress purchase is up to YOU to decide and everything else and all the posts here are meant to help educate you so you can decide on the parts of your own personal value equation that are most important to you.
A lot of the focus of this forum is about the quality and durability and properties of different materials and how to make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses based on all the elements of “value” that may be important to each person. To do this you need to have two materials that you can compare relative to each other or two specific mattresses where you know the details of all the materials in each one so you can make informed choices that match the criteria that are important to YOU.
The mainstream industry in general consists of lower quality/value mattresses that are being sold to uninformed consumers based on marketing stories that have little substance to them and don’t provide the information that allows people to make meaningful comparisons between mattresses. The forum is meant to help people break through the “stories” and make choices based on more meaningful, factual, and researched information. Brand comparisons are not particularly meaningful because they don’t include the specifics of a mattress and the value of a mattress is always relative to other mattresses that are available to you
If you are looking for a “foam free” mattress that is made of innersprings and natural fibers then in addition to the ones that Daniel mentioned there is a list in post #4 here that you may wish to consider but you would need to compare the specifics of each one based on your own personal criteria and things you have learned here to know which one would be the best value for you.
The “material value” or the “commodity value” of a mattress is just one part of value and is one of the things that are mostly blind in the industry and the area of “value” that most people know the least about which is why there is a focus on materials in this forum. If you have one mattress that has 8" of latex with an organic cotton wool quilted cover and another that includes the same amount of the same type of latex with a similar cover and sells for twice the price then the second mattress would not have the same “commodity value” or “material value” as the first one but someone may still decide that the differences in the other parts of “value” make the second mattress better value for them. The different parts of value aren’t mutually exclusive.
The goal of this forum is to learn and share ideas and information so that you can make the best possible purchase by the criteria of your own personal value equation that are most important to you. Learn what there is to learn here, ignore what you don’t personally agree with or find valuable, and then make the thoughtful and informed choices that are best for you.
Phoenix