Saatva mattress

[phoenix]

Hi tspnyc,

There really isn’t too much I can add to the comments in my previous reply which already answered most of your questions. These comments In particular …

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local or online lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

If you are only considering online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that would be worth considering.

If you are also interested in local options then if you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

You also basically say the Saatva is overall a good mattress for a decent price despite:

“slightly higher amount of lower and medium quality foams in the upper layers of the mattress than I would normally suggest (2” or more is where I would become a little cautious)"

And when it comes to Winkbeds you say:

“My only caution here is that they use 2” of 1.5 lb polyfoam in the top layers of the mattress… (which is) “on the edge” of the guidelines that I would normally suggest which is “no more than about an inch or so of lower quality and less durable materials in the upper layers of the mattress” so I would add a “slight” caution here relative to durability."

I wouldn’t consider them to be “good” quality/value mattresses because both of them have lower quality materials or “weak links” that don’t meet the minimum quality/durability guidelines that I would normally suggest. While they do use better quality and more durable materials than most of the major brand mattresses which is why I often mention they are “better than average” … the major brands are a very low bar to use as a comparison or reference point and neither one of them are mattresses that I would normally suggest considering.

You also say of the Saatva:

“There are also many innerspring/microcoil (pocket coil) mattresses that are significantly under the $2500 that they claim would be a comparable mattress including some that are made by the same manufacturer that makes Saatva. Some of these use more costly offset coils or pocket coils or other materials in their mattresses along with microcoils with higher coil counts and/or specialty foams (such as latex or memory foam) in their comfort layers or wool in the quilting and sell for well under $1500 .”

What are these “many other” mattresses? Can you name one or three as examples that people can go checkout for themselves?

Most of these would be local mattresses that are sold by local retailers or manufacturers that you would need to identify in your own specific area based on your own local research. They would be sold primarily by local factory direct manufacturers or some of the better retailers in different areas of the country that are transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses so you could make meaningful quality/value comparisons between the mattresses they sell and the Saatva and Winkbed mattresses. Finding them in your own specific area based on the criteria I’ve suggested would be your part of the research you would need to do for yourself.

As an example … if you were in the Beloit, WI area there are some innerspring mattresses here that use microcoils in the comfort layers that don’t use any lower quality materials or have any weak links that are made by one of the members of this site.

But the mattresses they put on their chart are exactly the mattresses the retail stores guide people to. They are Saatva and Winkbeds’ direct competition, other than the other on-line-only sellers, few of which are coil mattress sellers.

I don’t consider the mattresses on their chart to be their direct competition (outside of marketing narratives). Their direct competition would be good quality/value mattresses in a similar or even slightly higher budget range that don’t have the same “weak links” not major brand mattresses that are in much higher budget ranges. They are comparing themselves to mattresses that I would also consider to be significantly overpriced (and they have also overstated the prices) and that I also wouldn’t consider even at much lower prices because of the quality of the materials and components they use. I don’t consider major brand mattresses (or any mattress that has a weak link) to be real competition for any “good” quality/value mattress.

But WHICH ones?

The optional online step includes links to 4 different lists of online options and the list of the members here that sell mattresses online include several that sell innerspring mattresses that would be worth considering. While I normally don’t look through the lists for specific mattresses for the members here since they can easily do so themselves (I would have no time remaining to answer posts and do the other ongoing research and activities that are involved in running the site if I did all the work for all the members here) I will make an exception in this reply. They include …

Latex Mattresses On Sale - Latex Mattress Toppers - Phoenix, AZ

www.baybed.com/

The Best Natural Mattress | Natural Escape from My Green Mattress

The link to the list of latex/innerspring mattresses that I included in my last reply would also include mattresses that would be worth considering.

In general terms most of the online “simplified choice” mattresses or online “bed in a box” mattresses are foam mattresses and you would probably find many more good quality/value innerspring mattresses that are available locally that would be worth considering and that meet the quality/durability guidelines I’ve linked than you would online. Part of the reason for this is that many innerspring mattresses are more difficult to compress and/or ship economically.

There are a few pocket coil mattresses that have been launched more recently that I haven’t included in the simplified choice list yet that may also be worth considering. They include …

https://www.aviyamattress.com/ See my comments in post #25 here.

Luma sleep (closed business as of 2023) Their basic mattress includes 1.5" of blended Talalay latex on top of a pocket coil innerspring with a 1" layer of high density polyfoam as a stabilizing layer under the pocket coils. It’s available in two different firmness levels. They also sell their Latex Hybrid Slumber System which includes the basic Luma mattress with an additional 3" Talalay latex topper in your choice of 3 different firmness levels.
NOTE: these specs are different from their original design which originally included a base mattress with a 1" layer of memory foam on top of the coils with the additional topper and which was only available as a mattress/topper combination.

https://cravemattress.com/collections/shop/products/12-luxury-plush-innerspring?variant=13990436484 This includes a 1.5" convoluted latex top layer over a 1.5" memory foam middle layer on top of an 8" pocket coil with a 1" polyfoam bottom layer. I would want to know the density of the 1.5" memory foam layer under the latex. ADDED: I contacted them to find out the specifics of the materials and components in their mattress and they told me that the 1.5" memory foam layer is only 2.5 lb density which is much lower quality/density than the durability guidelines I would normally suggest for memory foam and I would consider it to be a weak link in this mattress in terms of the durability and useful life of the mattress.

https://voilamattress.com/ They don’t list the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses so I wouldn’t consider this one unless they can provide you with the information here so you can confirm there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress. They are also made in China and there is always some additional risk and uncertainty involved in buying a mattress that is made in China or other imported mattresses that may be subject to longer periods of compression during shipping and storage that can sometimes affect the durability and useful life of the mattress (see post #6 here).

https://suissly.com/ 2 of their 4 firmness options include a pocket coil with different types of foam layers on top of the pocket coil. These include what they call California Dream foam (which would be what I call a high performance polyfoam), memory foam, and organic dunlop latex. The orgainc latex is a very high quality and durable material but I would want to know the density of the high performance polyfoam and the memory foam to make sure they meet the minimum durability guidelines before considering them.

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else (including me) would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.

Phoenix