Hi guys,
Can you compare the build of these three mattresses? All hybrid mattresses. Tomorrow is the cheaper one, Sapira is the most expensive one. But I’m not sure I have the knowledge to compare their layers.
Found the mattress specs of each:
https://www.kayasleep.com/our-story/
How would each feel?
Thank you!
And if you can also say something about Zinus Green Tea, super cheap and a hybrid!
Hi JJ85,
I provided you links in my previous reply about learning of the componentry within a mattress. The steps aren’t too difficult. To help you out a bit, I’ll list here in more complete detail my suggestions for selecting a mattress.
The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
You can perform a forum search on any of the brands you mentioned and see where there were discussed previously here on the forum.
The Sapira mattress uses pocketed springs. The spring unit has a 1" layer of 1.8 lb 32 ILD polyfoam on the top and bottom of it, and then above that is 1.5" Of 4 lb 9 ILD memory foam and 1.5" of 3.65 lb 20 ILD Avena " high performance" polyfoam . For most individuals there would be no “Red flags” with these materials, but I would issue a “slight caution” for those of a higher BMI for the 4 lb memory foam.
The Kaya Sleep is another of the newer “boxed bed” mattresses and hasn’t been discussed previously here on the forum. It uses pocketed springs, on top of which is 1" 2 lb polyfoam, 2" 4lb memory foam, and 1" 5 lb “high performance” polyfoam. For most individuals there would be no “Red flags” with these materials, but I would issue a “slight caution” for those of a higher BMI for the 4 lb memory foam.
Tomorrow Sleep two different comfort offerings:
Medium firm
1" 3.5lb Memory Foam Layer
1/2" 2.5lb Air Cooled Comfort foam layer with Gel (not sure if this is memory foam or poly foam)
1.5" Dynamic Response Foam Layer (I believe 2.6 lb)
6" coils at the bottom for additional support."
Medium soft
1" 4.8 lb Viscoelastic (memory foam)
2" 2.5 lb foam layer with Gel (not sure if this is polyfoam or memory foam)
6" Series coil
6" x 3" Foam rails with Side Ventilation
1" thin base foam layer which the coils rest upon
The Medium Firm uses a total of 3" of comfort materials, with the memory foam being a bit lower than what I would normally recommend (3.5 lb vs. 4 lb) . The Medium Soft uses a higher density memory foam, and the polyfoam layer beneath that uses a better density of foam.
There are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. Which is a long-winded way to say that unfortunately I can’t predict how one of these mattresses might feel to you, and that can only be determined through your own personal testing.
Phoenix
Hi JJ85,
You may perform a forum search on Zinus (just click on the link). They’ve been discussed quite a bit here on the forum, and some of the concerns I would have about their products and being shipped and compressed from China for such a long time.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix. I understand about the Zinus.
If you had to compare the Sapira/Tomorrow (medium-firm)/Kaya how would you rank their quality of build, or is it quite similar and I should mainly look at price? Is the quality of coil unit similar?
Hi JJ85,
I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t have familiarity with the “quality of the build” or assembly of each of these mattresses.
There’s not complete information about the spring unit of the Tomorrow Sleep mattress, but the spring unit isn’t usually the “weak link” of any mattress, so I would advise to focus upon the comfort material as I’ve outlined in each of my previous replies to you.
Phoenix
How does the Kaya specs above compare to the new Brooklyn Bedding Aurora for higher BMI?
Firm: 3.5lb 12ILD Titan FlexFoam with Phase change material
1" layer of Visco memory foam under the Titan Flex layer
3.5lb 36ILD TitanFlex foam Pocketed coils with quantum edge support All 3 comfort levels use the Knit stretch cover with the cooling component.
The memory foam layer has a 2.5lb density
Medium: 3.5 lb 12 ILD Titan flex foam with Phase Change material
Same memory foam layer
3.5 lb 18ILD TitanFlex foam Pocketed coils with quantum edge support
Hi Ari,
I’m still waiting for complete confirmation of all of the specifications on the Aurora from Brooklyn Bedding (as I have some specific questions) – Mario has been slow in getting back to me - but I know it is crazy there this time of year.
Assuming what you’ve received (I’m guessing via chat) is correct, the Firm would be:
1.5" 3.5 lb 12 ILD TitanFlex high performance polyfoam
2" 3.5 lb 36 ILD TitanFlex high performance polyfoam
1" 2.5 lb memory foam
Quantum Edge pocketed spring unit
And the Medium would be:
1.5" 3.5 lb 12 ILD TitanFlex high performance polyfoam
2" 3.5 lb 18 ILD TitanFlex high performance polyfoam
1" 2.5 lb memory foam
Quantum Edge pocketed spring unit
Based on these specifications, there’s more of the high performance polyfoam in the upper layers, which should have good body conformation but be a bit more supportive than the arrangement in the Kaya. The 2.5 lb memory foam would be below what I normally like to see, but is deeper in the mattress and in the “inch or so” range for minimum amounts like this, so for most individuals it should perform well. Even in the firm version, this mattress should have good conformation, but in a higher BMI range with the more point elastic materials, the 2.5 lb memory foam and the pocketed spring unit, I’d probably list this as a “slight caution” for those in a higher BMI range. But I need to completely confirm these specifications.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix. What would be considered a firmer coil gauge? Just as an example the Kaya says their coils are 15 gauge. What would that be considered?
Also are any of these quantum pocket spring coils firm enough for higher BMIs?
Hi Ari,
[quote]What would be considered a firmer coil gauge? Just as an example the Kaya says their coils are 15 gauge. What would that be considered?
Also are any of these quantum pocket spring coils firm enough for higher BMIs?[/quote]
This lower the gauge number, the thicker the spring. The thickest tend to be in the 12.5 – 13 gauge range and are more common with Bonnell and knotted offset springs. Pocketed springs are more common in the higher gauges (14-16 or so), and they tend to be more point elastic and smaller in diameter (and a wider range of diameters) to allow this. There’s more detail about this in this article.
There certainly are many quality pocketed innerspring units, and many can work well for those of a higher BMI, but you have to remember that all of the layers of a mattress work together, and as pocketed spring units allow for more travel, it is important that for higher BMIS they be combined with thicker and more durable materials, and you need to be cautious of using too much comfort material that is too soft and very point elastic.
There are multiple factors that figure into the strength of an innerspring unit, including items such as gauge of steel, spring diameter, number of turns, pre-compression (in a pocketed spring), tempering, number of springs, method of joining, zoning, nesting, metal composition, coil shape, knotted or open-ended, and so on.
Many manufacturers are quite cautious with a pocket coil with very high BMIs. Pocket coils and latex, memory foams and high performance polyfoams can be a great combination but you would need very strong coils and I think that the consensus with most manufacturers I’ve talked with is that pocket coils that would work well for “most people” may not be the best choice for higher weights. You’d want to check with the manufacturer for their recommendation, as many are not complete with the specifications of their innerspring units (like Kaya). The manufacturers will know more about the specifics of the pocket coils and their gauge and suitability for you. If you did go in this direction I would want to make sure that the pocket coils were very strong.
Phoenix
Phoenix, I just discovered the Brooklyn Hybrid as well in a YouTube review. I tried finding out more about Brooklyn and I see they are a member of the site so you obviously like them which is great to know when making a choice. Still, from reading the guides on the site and other reviews it’s clear density of foams is an important factor. Sapira & Kaya both have higher density of foams than the Brooklyn Hybrid and they’re both actually cheaper (even more now with the Black Friday discounts), the tomorrow is even cheaper than all of them. If the coil unit is similar, it seems quite clear.
Wouldn’t they (Sapira/Kaya/Tomorrow) be a much better choice if we’re only evaluating a build? Memory foam density as well as top layer densities are clearly higher.
Do you think there’s any other online hybrid (that comes in a box) to look at or would these cover most?
Thank you so much Phoenix
Pocket coils are so popular now and feel like no other spring bed I ever laid on , I did not like the feel of the one I tried, very soft, bouncy not supportive
Hi JJ85,
I can’t speak to what other reviews and sites you’re visiting say about a certain product, but I would disagree with your assessment. Overall, in the uppermost layers (the ones subject to the most mechanical stress), there is more high-density high performance polyfoam (4" of 3.5 lb assuming the information from Ari is correct – I haven’t confirmed that yet directly with BB) in the Aurora. Even with the small amount (1") of the 2. 5 lb memory foam as a top layer to the spring unit (being deeper within the product and not as thick would be less cause for concern), objectively there would be more higher-quality material in the uppermost layers in the Aurora. But as I’ve listed previously there are some good quality materials in the other mattresses you listed as well.
No, I wouldn’t agree with that at all (see my previous information). Your posts seem to be taking a more promotional turn as opposed to someone actually looking to learn about selecting a mattress, as it doesn’t seem you’re taking the time to read through the information I’ve previously supplied and linked to in multiple responses. Or perhaps you’re simply not interested in learning how to choose and analyze a mattress but instead want someone to tell you what to purchase, which is not the point of this forum. The goal of this site is to give people enough information to better understand all the factors and tradeoffs that can go into buying a mattress and are the most important parts of your personal value equation.
I don’t keep track of all of the online mattresses that contain springs, but there are certainly more than the four you’ve mentioned, which anyone can discover with a quick online search. Just from the site members selling online (which would be the ones I keep track of most closely), some options using pocketed springs and foam would include:
Arizona Premium Mattress Company
Flexus Comfort
Luma Sleep
My Green Mattress
Nest Bedding
Urban Natural Home Furnishings
Phoenix
Hi Ari,
Just like there are so many different types of mattresses, there are of course many different variations of pocket springs, and don’t forget that all of the layers of a mattress work together for comfort. It may be that you don’t prefer the more “contouring” aspect of a pocketed spring unit, as something that was “bouncy” and was providing good “pushback” (resiliency) actually sounds like something that would have a decent support characteristic, versus something that was “unsupportive” and just “flattened out” and didn’t feel like it was “returning” much energy at all. There’s of course much subjectivity involved, and as I’ve mentioned before, some manufacturers, especially for very high BMI individuals, recommend going away from a pocketed spring unit. But it’s not a blanket statement - just noting some of the advice given out there.
Phoenix
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix, me [18 BMI] and my wife [22BMI] are looking at either getting the KAYA or the Brentwood Home Ojai and our weight total (together) is 254lbs.
Which mattress has better specs, the Ojai or the KAYA?
Specifications for KAYA:
Cover – Seamless, ThermoGel Infused Cover
Top layer – Responsive HD Foam, 1’’ 5-PCF (Pounds Per Cubic Foot)[/li]
2nd layer – Memory Foam, 2’’ 4-PCF.
3rd layer – Transition Foam, 1’’ 2-PCF
Pocketed Coils Base Layer: 6’’ 1,000+ premium-grade steel pocketed coils, laying on top of a 1’’ 1.8-PCF stabilizing foam layer.
Brentwood Home Ojai specs:
Tencel Stretch Knit Cover (hand-tufted)
New Zealand Wool
1 ounce per square foot of OEKO-TEX® Standard 100 certified naturally crimped wool.
Wool Volume: 1.2 ouces/sq ft.
1.5-Inch Flo Foam
CertiPUR-US Certified Flo Foam
Density: 4lb/ft3, ILD: 12
1.5-Inch Gel Memory Foam
Density: 4lb/ft3, ILD: 10
1-Inch Natural Latex
All natural and free of synthetic ingredients. Our latex made with the Dunlop process.
Density: 4.0lb/ft3
8-inch Individually Wrapped Base Coils
Quantum Edge Combi-Zone base coils are strategically positioned to provide support to the hips, back, and shoulders. Reinforced coils around the perimeter keep the edges rigid and supportive.
Queen Coil Count: 1130
The coil unit is zoned in 4 sections, with 14 gauge coils in the head and foot portion of the mattress and 17 gauge in the middle, and edge coils that are 16 gauge.
For the KAYA, should I be concerned about the 1.8lb PCF stabilizing foam layer beneath the pocket coils? Also, are there any other layers I should be worried about?
[b]For the Brentwood Ojai, I also noticed there is no mention of a base layer above or below the coils however the coil count is higher.
What are your thoughts?[/b]
Hi freddie89.
There is never a simple answer or a “formula” to determine if a mattress that has “better” specs would be suitable for you to sleep on because the specs in of themselves will not tell you too much how well you will sleep on either of the two mattresses unless you use an “all inclusive” way to assess your sleeping needs in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) Both mattresses come in one firmness choice and regardless of the specs the only way to know which one would be “best” for you (regardless of whether it would be “best” for someone else) will be based on your own careful testing and personal experience as well as your history with past mattresses.
There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the specs of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
The 11" Kaya Sleep mattress has been on the market for about a year now and is one of the new entries of the one size fits all type of mattress introduced in November 2017. For normal weight ranges, this mattress this mattress would meet the durability guidelines for your BMI, but I’d place a slight caution for those of higher BMI weight ranges because of the second layer of memory foam which is 2" of 4 lbs/ft3 density. The role of the base HD Poly layer under the pocket coil would have the benefit of stabilization and giving an evenly supportive surface for the coils to sit on top and provides a protective bottom surface that makes the mattress compatible with most types of foundation designs. The 1.8 lbs/ft3 would not be of concern given that the layer is the furthest away from sleep surface.
The 12" Ojai Mattress with the top two layers using 3" at 4 lbs/ft3of memory foam would meet the durability guidelines for your normal BMI range if you like the feel of memory foam, but again it would be outside of the foam density recommendations for higher BMI ranges but. The mattress is hand tufted which also gives it more sturdiness to the entire construction.
Both mattresses are described as medium comfort choice but ultimately it would come down to the feel and type of material you like and how suitable it is for both of you in terms of comfort/support and other parts of your personal value equation.
Phoenix