"Major" Brands Sealy Optimum?

[phoenix]

Hi Begsel,

I certainly don’t mind you posting Sealy’s marketing information here but I am still waiting for your reply to my earlier question in post #89 in your earlier thread.

If you are part of the industry then disclosure is required to post here … and it seems clear to me that a “regular” consumer wouldn’t have the same “fierce” loyalty to major brands (particularly Sealy) as you clearly do.

So before you post again I need a specific statement from you about your affiliation with the industry.

Phoenix

[DAK]

I live by Madison, Wi. Can you recommend some quality places to get a mattress? Thanks for the ones you mentioned for the Milwaukee writer.

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

The better options I’m aware of in reasonable driving distance of Madison are listed in post #5 here which includes two of the members of this site.

Phoenix

[DAK]

OK, thanks. We plan to go to the Milwaukee area this week and will check out Michaels Furniture in Brookfield. Will keep you informed.

[DAK]

Haven’t been there yet, but discovered a store in Madison called Satara which “green” mattresses made of Dunlop latex. Plan to check them out soon. They have a website if you care to take a look and advise.

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

I’m familiar with http://www.satarahome.com/ and they sell Savvy Rest and Sueno/Suerte latex mattresses (made by Sleeptek)…

Both of these use high quality materials (natural Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay latex in the case of Savvy Rest and natural Dunlop in the case of the Sueno/Suerte) but they are both more costly than other similar mattresses that use the same materials and design.

They are certainly a good option for testing latex mattresses and are good quality but they are not in the best “value range” compared to other options you have in the area (see post #5 here) … although of course each person may have their own personal value equation which is different from the majority of other people.

Forum searches on Sleeptek and on Savvy Rest (you can just click these) will bring up more information about both of them.

Phoenix

[DAK]

We’re certainly not interested in spending more for a comparable mattress we can get cheaper somewhere else. Will check out Satara just to see what they have to say since we’re in Madison a lot. Spoke with Ken Michaels Furniture in Brookfield yesterday and left with info and prices. They have a $49 delivery charge for anything out of a 40 mile radius of downtown Milwaukee and will take 2 weeks to make your mattress. This may be relevant info for potential buyers. Will also check out Gateway for comparison sake.

[DAK]

So, here’s where we’re at: Ken Michaels has a 3 layer 11" Talalay for $2470, made by Milwaukee Mattress
Satara has 3 layer 10" Dunlop Savvy Rest for $2439 amd the Suerte is 2 layers of Dunlop 8" total for $2550

I am inclined to go with Milwaukee Mattress. Any opinions?

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

For me to make a reasonable comparison between them … I would need to know more details about the types of latex and the thickness of the latex in the mattress (or the latex layers) not just the mattress thickness for each of the mattresses you are considering. Knowing more about the details of the quilting and ticking of each mattress would also make a difference (the quilting and ticking materials can be a significant part of the cost of a mattress and its comfort properties as well).

For example the Savvy Rest is available in either 100% natural Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay (one is more costly than the other) and only has 3 x 3" layers of latex in the mattress for a total of 9" (not 10") and has an organic wool/cotton quilting. What type of materials does the one you are quoting contain (I’m assuming it’s the lower cost Dunlop)

The Suerte uses 8" of 100% Natural Dunlop and has a very nice stretch jersey ticking with 2 lbs / sq yd of organic wool in the quilting.

I don’t know the details of the Milwaukee mattress you are looking at.

I also don’t know if these are mattress only prices (nothing else such as a foundation should be included in any mattress value comparisons) or the size you are looking at (which can make a significant difference in the price)

Can you provide a little more information about the specifics?

It seems to me that all of them use good quality materials but all of them (with the possible exception of the Ken Michaels where I don’t know enough details to make any assessment) are not in the “best value” range.

Post #21 here includes some of the members of the site which sell latex mattresses online of various types … some of which are very similar to the ones you are considering and which I would use as a “value reference”. I normally consider a 20% “local premium” as being roughly equivalent value.

Of course just as important as the quality and “commodity value” of a mattress is how well it provides you with the PPP that makes it suitable for your specific needs and preferences. Objective and careful testing is one of the most important parts of a mattress purchase to find this out because without being suitable for your body type, sleeping style, and preferences a mattress would have little value for you. There are also many other parts of a mattress purchase that may be an important part of your “personal value equation” which you can see in post #46 here. In the end … the combination of the objective, subjective, and even intangible factors that are most important to you are all part of deciding which one has the best value for you.

Phoenix

[DAK]

I did misread the Savvy Rest description. They said it was a 10" mattress with 3 layers of natural latex. The price quoted above is for the queen size Dunlop. The Milwaukee made mattress is 100% Talaly with a large layer in the middle sandwiched by 2 thinner layers. The cover is made of a flexible/stretching material, but I forgot its name. They said it was “11 inches of latex”. Called it a pressure relief mattress. The price quotes are for a mattress only since it’s going on a platform bed.

The Gateway mattress company in Milton only makes innerspring mattresses, but they said they’re coming out with a new gel model.

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

Talalay is just a manufacturing method so any latex that used this method of production using synthetic or natural rubber would be 100% Talalay. The cover material will also make a difference in terms of “value” as well as feel and performance. I would also consider a two sided to be a “value” bonus not only because it can be more costly to finish a mattress on both sides but because if you regularly flip and rotate the mattress it will extend the life of any mattress regardless of material.

Of course … PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) and the suitability of a mattress for your specific needs and preferences would also be a significant part of your personal value equation and would be an important part of any choice along with any other benefits that come from a specific design (such as the ability to make any fine tuning changes after a purchase) or from dealing with the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with (return or exchange policies, delivery costs, extra value additions to your purchase, or any other benefit that comes from dealing with a particular retailer or manufacturer).

Beloit also sells latex mattresses with some great value if they are within reasonable driving distance for you

Phoenix

[DAK]

The one made by Milwaukee Mattress is flippable. According to the Beloit website, they only make coil mattresses, some with latex or gel. Looks like Ken Michaels is the place.

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

Beloit makes several all latex mattresses which you can see here. As you mentioned … they are a one sided design but certainly have better “value”.

Phoenix

[gentilr]

Hello,

I’ve looked around and don’t seem to be near any smaller mattress manufacturer. Plus I have an exchange privilege with my local Sleep Country on a mattress I just bought but is not comfortable enough.

I am considering the Sealy Optimum Aster here in Canada which has 1 or 2 inches of Opticool gel memory foam on top with 3 inches of high density memory foam under that. The core support has 2 layers of unidentified foam. The specification chart says things like “high density foam to minimize body impressions and optimize durability” etc.

Here are some specs as provided by Sealy:

Sealy®’s High Density Foams range from 1.35lb to 1.8lb delivering a higher standard of comfort, minimizing body impressions, ensuring a longer comfort life.
•The CoreSupport Center is a center-third lumbar support layer that sits directly underneath the high density foam layer for optimum support where you need it most.
•Beneath the CoreSupport Center is our patented OptiCore™ Plus, a firmer section at the bottom of the mattress, which provides a deeper level of support as well as a reinforced PostureLok Edge for a solid seating surface.

QUESTION: Are the definitions of high quality memory foam different in Canada than the US?

Because according to this website 1.5 lb memory foam is cheap and not suitable for a mattress.

QUESTION: If that is the case, then their 1.35lb to 1.8lb densities fall in this range, don’t they?

QUESTION: Since the last posts on this forum about the Optimum, does anyone have any recent info on the quality of materials used?

Here are a few more questions:

I recently bought at Kingsdown Landmark pocket coil bed. Every store I talk to say Kingsdown is a high quality manufacturer. Is this true? (My chiropractor has a 10 year old Kingsdown and is still happy with it.)

The problem with the Kingsdown is that I chose a model that has great support but not enough comfort layers to hug my body. So I can exchange it for an Optimum instead, which is the closest to my desired comfort and support and only $1100 versus other coil mattresses which are over $2000.

I see an interesting suggestion on here which has me thinking of using a mattress topper on the Kingsdown instead of taking a risk on the unknown and possibly low quality Optimum. Which mattress toppers are normally the highest recommended?

thank you!

Robert

[phoenix]

Hi gentilr,

The only way to know the quality and value of a mattress is to know the details of all the materials that are inside it. this is the only way to make meaningful assessments or comparisons between different mattresses. Unfortunately most of the larger manfacturers refuse to provide this information to consumers and use “marketing information” to replace “quality information” instead.

Sealy®’s High Density Foams range from 1.35lb to 1.8lb delivering a higher standard of comfort, minimizing body impressions, ensuring a longer comfort life.

This is a good example of what I mean. While this is more than most people would normally be able to find out, it is meaninless information because it is too generic and there is a substantial difference between 1.35 lb polyfoam (low quality) and 1.85 lb polyfoam (in the lower end of the higher quality polyfoam range). The layer thicknesses of each and how they are layered would make a substantial difference in the durability of the mattress but in most cases you won’t be able to find out the specifics and without this there is no way to identify any weak links in a mattress.

Providing a range like this is like saying “there is some good foam in the mattress and some foam that is not so good but we’re not going to tell you how much of any of it or how it is put together”. The weak link of most mattresses is the upper layers which are the most subject to mechanical forces that cause the upper layers to break down or soften faster than the deeper layers which are less subject to mechanical forces.

QUESTION: Are the definitions of high quality memory foam different in Canada than the US?

No … you can make the same comparisons with memory foam (or other types of foam) no matter where in the world it is made. the “definition” of high quality though will depend on who is selling the foam and what they would like you to believe. The polymer density of memory foam or polyfoam (before any filler is added) is the single biggest factor in their relative durability. You can read more about some of the many factors involved in the durability of a mattress in post #4 here and the other posts it links to.

Because according to this website 1.5 lb memory foam is cheap and not suitable for a mattress.

QUESTION: If that is the case, then their 1.35lb to 1.8lb densities fall in this range, don’t they?

Memory foam and polyfoam come in different density ranges and they are not comparable to each other. memory foam comes in densities ranging from about 1.5 lbs to about 8 lbs and I would be very cautious about using memory foam in density ranges under 4 lbs in layers more than about an inch thick. Poly foam comes in density ranges from under 1 lb to over 3 lbs and I would be very cautious about using densities under about 1.8 lbs (depending on the design and construction of the mattress and its budget range) in layers under about an inch thick as well. The mattresses section of the site has more information about materials used in the comfort layers section and the support cores section.

QUESTION: Since the last posts on this forum about the Optimum, does anyone have any recent info on the quality of materials used?

The information is still current as far as I’m aware but of course this type of information that comes from “alternative” sources and takes a great deal of research or some inside information (because they don’t disclose it even to their retailers) is not a substitute for information from the manufacturer themselves which they just don’t provide. This is part of the reason I wouldn’t consider them in the first place unless someone is comfortable making a blind purchase where there is no way to know the quality or value of what you are buying.

I recently bought at Kingsdown Landmark pocket coil bed. Every store I talk to say Kingsdown is a high quality manufacturer. Is this true? (My chiropractor has a 10 year old Kingsdown and is still happy with it.)

You certainly won’t find agreement from “everyone” … just the people that sell it who particularly like the margins that they provide. Anyone who tries to tell you that a mattress is high quality and can’t validate by providing you with information that validates it is just “selling you” rather than “educating you” and in effect you are just buying a story forthe sake of their profit. If they don’t know what is in the mattresses they are selling (which they won’t) then “quality” or “value” is just a meaningless word that they are hoping someone will believe “just because they said so”.

I see an interesting suggestion on here which has me thinking of using a mattress topper on the Kingsdown instead of taking a risk on the unknown and possibly low quality Optimum. Which mattress toppers are normally the highest recommended?

This can be a good idea when you have few other choices but it is important t make sure that there is as little as possible low quality foam in the upper layers of the mattress that you would be using the topper on. Post #2 here has more information and suggestions to other forum members that were in a similar difficult situation and somewhat “between a rock and a hard place” because they had to exchange a mattress for another one and there were no good quality/value options available to them.

Don’t forget that you can’t “feel” the quality of foam in a showroom and both high and low quality materials can feel similar of the same in a showroom but quality/density does determine how long a material will continue to feel and perform closer to how it was when it was new and how quickly it will soften and break down.

If you do decide to exchange for a firm mattress with minimal questionable materials in the upper layers … then post #2 here and the posts it links to can help you make the most suitable and least risky choice.

Phoenix

[DAK]

Just to let you know, we went with the 100% latex mattress at Michael’s Furniture in Brookfield. It’s been about 3 weeks now and we are very happy with it. They were good to deal with. Knew what they were talking about and were not pushy.

[phoenix]

Hi DAK,

Thanks for the feedback!

I think you made a good choice and when I talked with Mike there (the owner) some time ago I was certainly impressed with their knowledge and transparency and the quality and value of their mattresses. Your mattress also has the “value bonus” of being two sided.

Congratulations on your new mattress

Phoenix

[thomas2929]

Hello…
Your help, responses are great and im hoping you can help me out as well/
I wanted to ask you what , how you felt about costcos sleep science 10 memory foam mattress. It currently sells for $749- cal king
I had previously purchased a novaform GEL memory foam mattress from them and it didnt hold up. Started to sag within months and it was to soft to begin with… I was at local outlet mattress store today and i laid on the seally optimum destiny. Felt good, firm but as noted in others posts cant find much info , specs… I have been sleeping on my futon for over a month because i dont want to make the wrong choice again, and for it my back is killing me:(

I do love costcos return policy but am not afraid to look elsewhere…
I live in San Luis Obispo Ca

Any advice would be greatly appreciated…

Thomas

[phoenix]

Hi thomas2929,

I wanted to ask you what , how you felt about costcos sleep science 10 memory foam mattress. It currently sells for $749- cal king

You can read a little more of my thoughts about buying from Costco in post #4 here and more about sleep Science in post #2 here.

A mattress is only as good as the quality of its construction and materials and they don’t list the quality of the memory foam or the polyfoam layers. Without this there is no way to make a meaningful assessment of a mattress. If you look at the old Southbay site here though you will see that the Emma uses 3" of 3 lb memory foam and 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam underneath that which would both be too low quality/density for me to consider. They are also not CertiPur certified which is one of the criteria I use for all Chinese memory foam mattresses so they don’t meet the guidelines I use in terms of CertiPur and foam quality so I would tend to avoid them.

Some of the better options I’m aware of in the San Luis Obispo area are listed in post #2 here and some of the better online memory foam options I know of are listed in post #12 here.

Just in case you haven’t read it … post #1 here is always the best place to start your mattress research.

Phoenix

[SENCMom]

Hi Phoenix, Thanks for all the information you provide to help us become better informed consumers. I also had zeroed in on the Sealy Optimum Destiny, but have become very reluctant after reading your posts. I have a herniated L5-S1 disc, and have been having so much low back pain that I can’t stay in the bed more than 6 hours. I found that while on vacation, sleeping on a “not so great” innerspring mattress, I was able to sleep 8 hours and wake up with no stiffness or discomfort. That trip confirmed my suspicion that my mattress (11 year old Sealy Reflexion latex) was exacerbating my back pain. I need a thin mattress (not more than 10 inches) that offers good firm support, but is comfortable for side sleeping. Do you know of any maufacturers that still make high quality thin innerspring mattresses? The one I bought 30 years ago was great, and lasted almost 20 years. I would love to find something like that again, but they are all too thick for my high bed. I live in Southeastern NC.
Thanks!