select foam

Phoenix,

Can you give them a little bit longer as a member, like a few more months? I just don’t want them to retaliate against customers and not be able to do a return. I know that’s super lame but… It’s been such a long drawn out process.

Hi pressurepts,

My final decision hasn’t been made yet but there is never a good time to make these types of decisions and if I do decide to wait for a few months to end their membership then there may be even more customers that have ordered from them as well and are experiencing similar issues.

I don’t have any reason to believe that they will “retaliate” but of course if they do it would become public knowledge and generate even more comments on the forum here which would affect a larger percentage of their business that aren’t members here and they were already well aware after our last conversation that they were “on the edge” of losing their membership here.

NOTE ADDED: Because of their ongoing customer service issues and delays their membership has now been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Phoenix

I hope you can bring them along. Perhaps you can have a “time out” on keeping their membership. Give them 30 days to resolve all the outstanding issues. You could put a blurb on their membership that there are outstanding issues and until they are resolved, their membership is on hold. I do think people will read all these posts and avoid them, which is unfortunate… Personally I think they have a great product and need help with customer service. They should have shipping policies in writing. as part of their purchase agreement. I never got anything in writing. Only a Paypal receipt and it says nothing abut the mattress specifics or details of shipping… That is not acceptable for an $1800 purchase. I did use Paypal knowing that I am covered under their protection policy and I would encourage anyone who can’t resolve their problems to go to Paypal and file a claim. But if you don’t have a specific sales agreement, they may not be as helpful as they could be if you have a firm agreement on shipping and specifics of the item ordered…

Hi Nene1957,

That’s certainly one of the options that I’m considering

NOTE ADDED: Because of their ongoing customer service issues and delays their membership has now been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Phoenix

It is a concern that if they are dropped from membership here with negative feedback to boot, that their company could be at risk and our warranties useless… For those of us who bought from them because they were recommended here, it is concerning. I’d ask that you let them know that even one unhappy customer leaves a lot of feedback and that many of the people buying online end up here reading those comments. . And when you file a claim on Paypal, they very seriously pursue sellers and will cancel accounts if enough complaints are deemed appropriate , which also hurts business. If you signed an agreement for a minimal trial period, then I think you are stuck. If you made the wrong mattress choice, then you have to live with it for the minimum number of days. If they are not forthcoming on shipping status, they will not last long. I didn’t mind waiting 3 weeks, but I thought it was going to be 10 days max. I still am happy overall because I love the mattress but I understand those who have not received their purchased items anger and frustration.

The mattress underground is actually acting as their default customer service. These is the only place I’ve gotten any answers…

Hi Nene1957,

The large majority of their business doesn’t come from The Mattress Underground and probably don’t even know this site exists. You would probably be surprised how few people actually do good research into the mattress choices they make. Their membership here wouldn’t either “make” or “break” them.

@presssurepts

Unfortunately this has sometimes been the case with some of the members here that have purchased from them and it’s certainly not something that should be happening.

In any case … and as with any decision of this type … I intend to do what I believe is the right thing to do based on all the many factors that need to be considered. As I mentioned previously … it’s not something that I take lightly.

NOTE ADDED: Because of their ongoing customer service issues and delays their membership has now been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Phoenix

Phoenix,
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my post. Unfortunately, judging by Select Foams actions I believe they could not care less about their membership here and I think it speaks to the company’s integrity and intentions when they won’t let you post to their Facebook page unless they approve of what you are saying and that their reviews section on the Select Foam webpage leads to absolutely nowhere. I will continue to monitor the forum as well as making my daily calls to Select Foam. Good luck to the rest of you!

OK- I finally got the mattress topper delivered. But I’m confused because I thought I was getting a 3 inch topper and I got a 2.5 inch topper. Sigh.
Anyway- It does improve the comfort of the mattress- but i’m annoyed because i have no idea how long the topper will last until it needs to be replaced- and then what if I can’t replace it with something as good?

The feel is improved, but since the mattress is so firm for me and my sensitive body- i feel like I may need even more of a comfort layer. Like another 2 inches of foam plus the 2.5. I’m am ok sleeping on my back with the topper, but not my side. My arms don’t go numb with the topper, but they still feel a little uncomfortable. And I’m still waking up a few times.

Hi pressurepts,

Thanks for the update … I appreciate it.

I should add that I talked with Matt at Select Foam a few days ago (he was just getting on a plane) and he told me that he would be reviewing some of the comments and issues that have been mentioned on the forum recently and then will call me back to discuss them (and hopefully what they are doing to resolve them) and their membership here further.

NOTE ADDED: Because of their ongoing customer service issues and delays their membership has now been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Phoenix

I hope they get their act together. I opened a Paypal dispute for non-delivery after 9 weeks of first placing my order for a latex foam topper. I have been ordering stuff over the internet for a very long time and this is my first time ever opening a Paypal dispute for a purchase. That’s why I waited so long to do it. I gave them time to make good but they weren’t able to. I usually don’t post my dissatisfaction online, but I want to warn others who might be interested in purchasing from Select Foam.

I have called in many times, they told me that they will call back with an update. They did call back but I never received shipping confirmation. I kept calling back weekly, but to no avail. Now they don’t even answer their customer service line. So a warning to any potential customer, please be aware that this might not be the best company to make your purchases.

Hi Byte,

I appreciate that you posted about your experience as a warning to others that may be considering buying from them as well.

I am still waiting for Matt to return my call (I sent him a followup email today) and when and if he does I will make sure that he is aware of your complaint (along with any others that have been mentioned on the forum that are also waiting for a resolution as well).

I hope you also have the chance to let us know the outcome of your Paypal dispute.

NOTE ADDED: Because of their ongoing customer service issues and delays their membership has now been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Phoenix

I typed another message but i think it got lost.

I had an agreement with select foam to extend my trial period while i tried out the topper over the regalis.
I was away for christmas and after one night after being back the back pain returned. the topper and bed are not right and cause low and upper back pain. I think the 2.5 in topper is just too soft. and the Regalis without it is just too hard. Should I try a different topper?

I’ve been trying to get a hold of Chris for a month… I was told only he could help me. After being ignored for a month i called and talked to Matt- supposedly they are going to call me back on monday with solutions.

I don’t know what to do at this point. Should I try another topper? Something firmer but enough to provide some additional cushion? the regalis on its own is just way too firm and i can’t even fall asleep on it.

Or should I just get a refund? I wonder how long that will take.? I saw the notes about the company not being a member here anymore- wish that would have happened sooner and I would have shopped someplace else. If i do that… recommendations?

I slept totally fine on a temperpedic in DC- i believe it was a rhapsody controur breeze something. It was very conforming. The select foam bed is not conforming at all. it actually just feels like regular foam…
But i don’t want a temperpedic because of all the chemicals they use and off-gassing.

I also slept fine on a very medium, not firm not soft kids bed. 7 in foam on vacation… no low back pain at all. Where can i find a medium memory foam bed that does not have such a rigid core and is not too soft?

I would love to have foam order make me something custom, but their website says that they cannot source base foam right now that does not have added chemical flame retardants. ( and i don’t want to do latex). Other suggestions for something very medium top to bottom? or and least something i could unzip and rearrange to my liking?

Sorry so many questions- but after coming but from work in DC and then vacation again i realized one night on that bed is causing the sore back. I’ve been dealing with this for six months… ugh!

Hi pressurepts,

[quote]I don’t know what to do at this point. Should I try another topper? Something firmer but enough to provide some additional cushion? the regalis on its own is just way too firm and i can’t even fall asleep on it.

Or should I just get a refund? I wonder how long that will take.? I saw the notes about the company not being a member here anymore- wish that would have happened sooner and I would have shopped someplace else. If i do that… recommendations?[/quote]

Unfortunately there is never a “good” time to make these types of decisions and as I mentioned in the sticky topic here about terminating their membership … at some point the elastic stretches too much and “breaks”.

There isn’t much I can add to my comments in this and the other topic about what you “should” do but if you do decide to try a different topper then I would make sure that you have enough time to try it out to make sure that it works for you and to make sure that you would be able to return the mattress and the topper (and have this in writing) if the combination doesn’t work out as well as you hoped for. I would also keep in mind that if a different topper doesn’t work out you may also be in a similar situation where getting a timely refund may be difficult or delayed.

As far as other memory foam options … I believe that you are in the Bay area and if this is the case then the better options or possibilities that I’m aware of in your area that you can test in person before a purchase (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here. If you are still primarily focused on memory foam then a trip to Nest Bedding may be worthwhile since they have both memory foam mattresses and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids.

If you are still considering other online memory foam options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) which would also be well worth considering.

I would also keep in mind that there are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other memory foam mattresses that they are familiar with such as Tempurpedic) than anyone else.

Phoenix

Ok- I’ll probably check out naturally organic sleep- since they are close to me. And also nest bedding.

Ill keep you posted on the refund.

Hi pressurepts,

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback after your trips to Nest Bedding and Organic Sleep … and of course your refund as well.

Phoenix

UPdate:

A good choice to remove Select Foam from the forum. I finally talked to a new customer service person there (that was actually in sales not returns) that said I needed to do a charge back to the credit card. She told me that since she’d been there she had never seen them do an actual return as stated in their procedure. She also told me after a foam problem and delay with beds last year- hundreds of people just did charge-backs to there credit cards.
So fishy. I ended up getting refunded from the credit card company after submitting a lot of paperwork- but they were super great and helpful (the credit card company). I had saved all of my email correspondence with select foam and printed it out and faxed it in. But, I’m sure the credit card is still working to recover their side of the money.

Good Riddance.

But- I’m still left without a comfortable sleeping surface.

Went to nest bedding- great selection and helpful staff. I was interested in the medium memory foam.
However, since it had the soft poly-foam on top, i don’t think its going to work for my lower back. it feel like my lower back was either to low or too high when i tested it. But the the firm model was definitely going to be too firm if i rolled over onto my side.

I wish i could find a memory foam bed that has a medium not squishy top, but not such a firm core. For comparison, I liked the Tempur contour rhapsody luxe. Obviously that bed is a rip-off. But i can’t seem to find a memory foam on top that feels like this foam. I slept well on this model for a week in a hotel not that long ago.

Also went to naturally organic sleep. tested out some of the magniflex beds. i don’t know much about those though. I didn’t have much time, but will go back here for more testing of some of the latex beds. Guy there was very nice and helpful.

What do you guys think of the box and ship mattresses? ( like leesa and casper?) do any of those stand out? I"m wondering if the leesa might work since the top foam is a little firmer (20-26 ild i believe).

Hi pressurepts,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and “warning” about Select Foam. It’s great to see that your credit card chargeback was successful!

That’s a short question but with a much longer answer :slight_smile:

ILD/IFD is only one of several specs that makes one material feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here) and the ILD or IFD of different materials or even different types of the same material often aren’t directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here). The ILD or IFD of a single layer also isn’t particularly meaningful because every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will have an effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component in the mattress and on the mattress “as a whole” and putting too much focus on ILD/IFD alone or any other single specification (especially if it’s only a single layer) will most often be more misleading than helpful.

The ILD/IFD of memory foam can also change with temperature, humidity, and the length of time that the memory foam is continuously compressed (memory foam tends to get softer over the course of the night) and ILD/IFD testing with memory foam also produces different results than ILD/IFD testing on more resilient materials so the ILD/IFD of memory foam can be particularly misleading if you are comparing it to other types of foam.

Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is firm for one can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here).

Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components and their specs and different layering combinations and mattress designs and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you … I would tend to avoid using complex specs to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you may not fully understand or only based on a single spec for a single layer that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe it is then the most common outcome is “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”.

I would always keep in mind that no matter how many specs you know about a mattress or how much you try and “analyze” specs to try and predict how a mattress will feel … the only way to really know how any mattress will feel to you will be based on your own personal testing or your actual sleeping experience.

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because most consumers have little knowledge about mattresses and mattress materials or how to assess the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress and any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews in general certainly won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

You can see some general comments about what I call “simplified choice mattresses” in general in post #1 here and you can see some more specific comments about Leesa and Casper along with many of the other “simplified choice” online mattresses in post #2 here in the same topic. A forum search on “Leesa” and on Casper (you can just click the links) will also bring up many more posts with comments and feedback about them as well.

Like any online mattress you won’t be able to make side by side comparisons with other mattresses in “real time” to assess how they compare for you but they all have a very good return policy that lets you test them in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk and if they aren’t at least a “good enough” match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP then you can return them for a refund.

I would be cautious with the Leesa because the 2" of 3 lb memory foam in the Leesa is a lower quality/density material than the minimums I would generally suggest in the guidelines here and I would consider it to be a potential weak link in the mattress (although the 2" of Avena polyfoam above the memory foam would improve the durability of the memory foam somewhat compared to having the same lower density memory foam in the top layer of the mattress).

While there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the Casper relative to more average weight ranges (less than the mid 200’s or so) … for most of the members here they probably wouldn’t be the best quality/value choice compared to some of the other simplified choice mattresses that are available.

Outside of the list of the simplified choice mattresses and the local list I linked in one of my earlier replies … the mattress shopping tutorial also includes several other links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses (including memory foam mattresses) in a wide range of budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may also be well worth considering. The online memory foam list also includes a range of memory foam mattresses that may be worth considering and several of them make memory foam mattresses that are designed to be reasonable approximations of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses (including the Rhapsody Luxe).

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with such as the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe) than anyone else.

Phoenix

thanks for all of the info.

I wasn’t aware of some of those options. I think I’ve narrowed it down to bear versus zotto versus addable.
But a little unsure about zotto since it seems to have the first 4 inches of pretty soft materials.

Also not sure about some of the high performace poly foams that provide “bounce.” if these are like latex, i may not like it. latex overall seemed to not go over well with me. medium soft latex topper gave tight muscle points in shoulders and neck that went away w./o the topper… do these foams push back like latex? bear lists a high performance foam that bounces.

I also feel like i’m on information overload. But I want to get it right this time since it was such a debacle last time w select foam.

I’m even debating just ordering some medium density foam and trying to make due with the spring bed that causes pressure points. I’m actually sleeping on the that right now with an egg crate from foam order. but the egg crate is quite hot and a little bit soft. Was thinking of getting something slightly firmer and a nice cooling cover for it. not sure if this plan might be easier to hone in on whats right for me.

Hi pressurepts,

[quote]I wasn’t aware of some of those options. I think I’ve narrowed it down to bear versus zotto versus addable.
But a little unsure about zotto since it seems to have the first 4 inches of pretty soft materials.[/quote]

While I can’t speak to how any mattress will feel for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, or PPP … all three of these mattresses are using good quality materials and there would be no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them relative to your weight range.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Because your own personal experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP … the options you have available after a purchase to “fine tune” the mattress or to exchange or return the mattress (and any costs involved) can also be a more important part of the “value” of an online purchase just in case (and in spite of the “best judgement” of everyone involved) the choice you make doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

There are many versions of high performance polyfoam made by many foam manufacturers. While most of them are high quality materials … some of them can be closer to the properties of memory foam (lower resilience) and some are closer to latex (higher resilience) but in general latex will be more resilient than any of them so they would have less “bounce” than latex.

Having said that … the properties of all the layers and components in a mattress will have an effect on all the other layers and components and the feel and performance of a mattress “as a whole” so one mattress that contains a highly resilient material but also includes other less resilient materials (or where the higher resilience materials are thinner or deeper in the mattress) may have less “bounce” than a mattress that only includes more highly resilient materials (or where the higher resilience materials are thicker or closer to the top of the mattress).

Again … I would keep your expectations realistic and always keep in mind that when you are making an online purchase that the only way to know for certain whether a mattress you purchase that you can’t test in person first will be a suitable choice in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own actual experience once you sleep on it.

If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress and it is still in relatively new condition then a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief to your sleeping system but the only way to know whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.

If there are soft spots or sagging in your mattress then a topper generally wouldn’t be a suitable choice because the topper will just tend to “bend into” the soft spots or sagging areas in the mattress and the benefits of a topper may be limited or temporary.

There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. A good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

If a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of "comfort and PPP then it also has the advantage of being able to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (which is very likely because the upper layers of a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it as well.

Phoenix