I was sleeping on a mattress with a 6" air bladder for the support layer. The comfort layer was split, one side being 3" 19-ILD latex/3lb memory foam and the other side being 3" 44-ILD Dunlop. The firm side helps me sleep better overall but results in terrible shoulder pain. I don’t sleep well on the soft side and still have shoulder pain.
Instead of trying to mix and match further, I went with a standard mattress, the Tuft and Needle. I like the firmness. But I sink in too much for my needs. I have a disability and need strong edge support as well the ability to push off the mattress for turning while sleeping. The last thing I want is to sink in and dig myself out of a hole. This is the effect that I had with the T&N mattress, which is odd because it feels pretty firm otherwise. I put the two toppers on top of the T&N mattress and noticed a big improvement. I sleep better and toss and turn less on the firm side but still have shoulder pain. The soft side doesn’t get rid of the shoulder pain but still gives me back aches and muscle spasms.
Because of my very specific needs, I have gone full circle to building my own mattress. I realize it can be more costly in terms of both time and money. But the alternative to pick and hope it works hasn’t worked well in the past. So here I am.
My next step is to go with a pocket spring support layer, the Combi-Zone because it likely has the best support (including strong edge support) that I need. The question is what to put on top? If a 3" soft topper won’t get rid of shoulder pain and yet I like the firmer topper for my back and stomach sleeping, what do I do? I appreciate being able to exchange toppers but am not thrilled with going through the process. I am sure the vendors aren’t either. Hence, I am leaning toward several 1" layers of latex with varying degrees of firmness. That way I can add, remove, and configure layers until I find what works best and do so without the hassle of returns.
Is there something I should know before going this route of selecting several 1" layers over single layer topper?
If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).
The main advantage of having more layers is that for those who need it can provide more options to customize the layer combinations either before a purchase or by rearranging or exchanging layers after a purchase. While this is attractive to some people … it can also add some complexity that may not be necessary or may not justify any extra costs involved in having more layers for others. Latex would certainly be a material that is high quality and durable, and the Combi-Zone with the Quantum Edge would be a good quality innerspring unit.
Also, as you sleep prone, this in and of itself can cause shoulder issues, and you’d want to make sure that any pillow you’re using is not too thick as to provide poor neck alignment and extra stress upon your shoulder joint. And I also don’t know if some of this may also be a result of your disability. As with any DIY project, there will be some trial and error.
Thank you for your response. I have read through the links that you referenced above. I am still wondering if there is any difference in three 1" layers vs one 3" layer of the same foam? If not, I think the added cost of the individual layers may be worth the ability to add, remove, and configure the layers.
Also what about a high density memory foam for this application?
There would be little if any practical difference between three 1" layers and a single 3" layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover. Multiple layers would have more options for fine tuning, and as I mentioned in my previous reply (and as you mention as well)…the main advantage of having more layers is that for those who need it can provide more options to customize the layer combinations either before a purchase or by rearranging or exchanging layers after a purchase.
This would be up to your own personal preference, but there will be less difference in the IDL range (softness) of memory foam, as it is all quite soft. Additionally, memory foam will be much more difficult for you to reposition in, and it will tend to sleep warmer than latex.
When you say tight fitting, does that include a basic cotton Muslin cover that just holds things in place like this one? Or does it require a more substantial cover that actually squeezes it all together like this one?
You are right that my disability is the cause of my shoulder pain. The mattress is not magic and cannot solve this problem that I have had for years and probably will have forever. But at least I should shoot for it not making it worse. More realistically, good adjustable pillows like these should do much more for my shoulder by raising my head high enough such that my shoulder isn’t pushing into the mattress.
I don’t understand why people invest in an expensive cooling cover and then put a mattress protector on top that detracts from the cooling. Doesn’t it make more sense to buy the least expensive cover that meets requirements (like the cotton Muslin cover linked above) and putting the money saved into a cooling mattress protector like this one? Or maybe just an inch of wool over a thin protector over a thin cotton cover?
The Cotton Muslin cover would be a more basic and price-conscious option. The Mattresses.net cover you linked to is quilted to wool and would be more substantial, offer better structural integrity, better UV/oxidation protection, and also provide some of the extra benefits of wool (comfort, temperature/humidity assistance).
You are correct. I wish there was a mattress that would be 100% guaranteed to take this pain away from you. I’d recommend it in an instant!
I’m a fan of pillows that you can shape and adjust the fill, and that really can assist with shoulder pain.
In very general terms … the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin, although there are other benefits between different types of mattress encasements (as I mentioned previously in this reply).
There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. You can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here. Their results tend to be temporary.
I have the combi-zone and like it very much. I am sleeping much better than on air or foam support layers. My neck and shoulder pain have reduced in just two nights. On top of the combi-zone, I have a 2" foam topper from Tuft and Needle called T&N Adaptive® Foam. It’s nice. No complaints. But I like the combi-zone springs so much that I am considering a micro-coil topper on top of the combi-zone. I have found some micro-coil toppers that come with foam inside a case. But I would like to buy just the micro-coils (some may call them nano-coils)? Can you say where to find them? Thanks.
I’m glad you’re sleeping better on your new innerspring unit with the polyfoam topper from T&N.
I’m not personally aware of anyone selling the microcoils separately, but a good place to start would be calling some of the component suppliers listed here. That would be my best guess. And while I’ve seen web sites and manufacturers incorrectly use the terms interchangeably, microcoils are different from nanocoils. You’d most likely desire microcoils for use as a “topper”.
I went with a 2" medium latex topper (ordered at FoamOrder.Com) on top of the combi-zone. It was an improvement over my previous mattresses (Medallion air mattress and Tuft and Needle). The problems with the previous mattresses were: 1) pinching in my shoulder/neck, 2) tossing and turning and overall discomfort, and 3) waking up with neck, shoulder, and back pain.
With the combi-zone + 2" medium latex topper, there is a huge improvement. Neck and shoulder pain are gone. (perhaps my new adjustable memory foam pillow helped also). I toss and turn much less. I can go all night sleeping on my back whereas that was impossible before. But I still experience some discomfort while sleeping and wake up with lower back pain.
I added 1" of 5.3 Lb memory foam (also from FoamOrder.Com) between the combi-zone and 2" latex topper. It feels more comfortable. But I still wake up with lower back pain.
I already have 3" of foam. My understanding is that adding more would be worse for back sleeping. What should be my next steps? Thanks.
I’m happy that your new combination is an improvement over your old mattress system , and certainly your new pillow could have had something to do with the improvement of the comfort in your neck and shoulder region, as a pillow can have a dramatic impact in that area.
Regarding “back pain”, there is some information about the many different symptoms/pains that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes behind them in post #2 here that may be helpful. I don’t know how long you’ve been sleeping on your new mattress, and if the addition of the memory foam layer was done initially with your new mattress or done after the fact. There is always a period of adjustment with any new configuration, so you’d want to make sure that you gve any changes at least a few weeks so that your body could adjust and lose a bit of its “learned alignment” from your previous configurations (especially your old mattress).
Low back pains can come from comfort layers that are too soft, too substantial (too many layers), inadequate deep support, as well as from comfort layers that are too hard, so it would be up to your own experimentation to determine what might be the case for you personally. Also, your own level of fitness, flexibility, somatotype and personal sensitivity will come into play, and these are all things that I unfortunately can’t predict via an online forum, and all of this is part of the fun (and also possible frustration :unsure: ) of a DIY mattress.
If your first configuration was with the latex alone on the spring unit and then you added the memory foam after the fact, you could compare those two levels of comfort. If your back pain was reduced with the addition of the memory foam, you could consider another layer of latex, perhaps a 1" of medium, to place on top of the memory foam layer for a bit of extra comfort, or you could consider a 2" layer of the medium latex and replace the memory foam with that. If you noticed a worsening of your back pain with the addition of the memory foam, you may wish to consider a 1" or 2" piece of a bit firmer piece of latex, and you could try that either above or below your current 2" medium latex layer. On top would provide a bit more of a “crisp” surface comfort, and below would provide a bit more of a “traditional” progressive construction that would provide a bit more of a firmer feeling “bending in” between the upper two foam layers.
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
Hopefully that information gives you a few ideas as to your next steps.
