So glad I found this site. A huge thanks to Phoenix for all the hard work with it and for helping countless people get a good night’s sleep.
So, my husband and I, 6’3" 260 - 40 yo and 5’3" 140 43 yo, wore out our Doctor’s Choice Eurotop mattress of about 6 years. We only paid $800 for it and had pretty low expectations. It actually performed better than we originally anticipated, but it had been starting to cause some pressure on our shoulders from side sleeping - and he has had many sore back/shoulder mornings from it. Plus, the motion transfer was getting annoying as we were both sleeping restlessly.
We first purchased a Beautyrest Black Evie Plush - and in the store it was comfortable, but when it arrived it was significantly softer than the store model - which was strange to us. I was immediately hammocking when on my side and went to sleep in the guest room. Hubby didn’t like how hot it was, but said it was comfortable for his side and pseudo stomach sleeping. Sent it back after 5 days and decided to try a Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme Breeze.
We are now going to send the TCSB back. We gave it a full 30 days thinking we just weren’t used to sleeping without coils. It has been awful. He hurts, I hurt - no one wakes up in a good mood - if we are able to get to sleep on it. It is still incredibly hot - the coolness feels great for about 10-15 minutes and then basically the bed absorbs our body heat which makes us hot and the bed hot.
I went back and tested other mattresses and what I noticed was I liked the S&F Lux Estate Emelia Rose Plush or Emmie Rose Pillowtop and slightly less the iSeries Ceremony - but know neither is well-made. The S&F models both feel much firmer than the Beautyrest Black, but still maintain a softness when you lay down on them. After reading through this site - I went back and found out that they had some latex in them and thought perhaps that is what is making the difference for me. My husband also likes the feel and thinks he could sleep comfortably on a similar bed - since we now know not to actually purchase a S&F.
Does anyone have a suggestion of a better quality/similar mattress that would be a good fit for us? We are ready for some sleep. The S&F information is not very helpful to foam/latex densities.
The first suggestion I would have is a complete “reset” in “how” you are looking for a mattress and I would start with the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones (which would include all the major brands you have been considering and will hopefully keep you out of the major chain stores as well).
There is also more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to about choosing a mattress if you are in a higher weight range because the durability of the upper layers of a mattress (which is the “weak link” of most mattresses) will become an even more significant issue in higher weight ranges.
[quote]We first purchased a Beautyrest Black Evie Plush - and in the store it was comfortable, but when it arrived it was significantly softer than the store model - which was strange to us. I was immediately hammocking when on my side and went to sleep in the guest room. Hubby didn’t like how hot it was, but said it was comfortable for his side and pseudo stomach sleeping. Sent it back after 5 days and decided to try a Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme Breeze.
We are now going to send the TCSB back. We gave it a full 30 days thinking we just weren’t used to sleeping without coils. It has been awful. He hurts, I hurt - no one wakes up in a good mood - if we are able to get to sleep on it. It is still incredibly hot - the coolness feels great for about 10-15 minutes and then basically the bed absorbs our body heat which makes us hot and the bed hot.[/quote]
There is more information about the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature in post #2 here but memory foam will generally sleep warmer than other materials and softer memory foam mattresses will tend to sleep warmer yet. Gel memory foam can have some initial or temporary effect on temperature but as you mentioned this will often only last until temperatures equalize and then the insulating properties of memory foam can “take over” again (see post #2 here for more about gel memory foams).
The S&F Lux Estate Emelia Rose Plush and the Pillowtop both only have about 3/4" of “mostly synthetic” latex in the mattress which is more about “label copy” than anything else and neither one could even reasonably be called a latex hybrid mattress. There isn’t enough latex in either one to make a significant difference and there is over 2" of “other materials” over the latex so you would be feeling much more of the other materials and components in the mattress than the latex. These would both be very risky choices. Even the S&F luxury latex mattresses that are “mostly latex” use relatively thick layers of polyfoam over the latex which is a weak link in these mattresses as well and there are many forum members that have needed to replace them after only a very few years with no warranty coverage (see post #174 here for more about mattress warranties) and with your husband’s higher weight this could happen even more quickly than the norm.
I would use careful and objective testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial to find a mattress that is a suitable match for both of you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you and I certainly wouldn’t use a Stearns & Foster mattress as any kind of reference point for quality or durability because there are so many other options available to you that would be just as suitable in terms of PPP and would make a much more durable choice in a lower budget range as well.
Once you reach step 3 in the tutorial if you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.
Thank you so much for your response and the links as I believe I was too verbose in my search wording the past week while researching and several of those didn’t pop up. We are in the Houston area and I intend to phone Texas Mattress Makers although I noticed on their website they do not offer latex in their mattresses.
We reread the mattress tutorial and then went through the posts regarding weight differentials. Knowing we like a bit of sink-in but also that feeling of buoyancy - we believe we would be on the right track with:
zoned construction possibly with more supportive construction under the hips since my husband’s shoulders are extremely broad and it sounded like athletic builds are well-suited to zoned construction
13.5 or heavier gauge spring for the support core or an innerspring with pocketed microcoils could be an added benefit. 100% memory foam beds will no longer be an option for us and we have yet to locate a latex bed to try out in the Houston area. We feel we could be comfortable with the right mix of spring/latex/foam with quality materials.
It sounds like we should be looking at HR foams in the mid ILD or 5lb memory foam underneath a blended or talalay (14-17) 2-3" latex as the comfort layer. maybe we have this wrong and the HR or HD foam should be on top - we just know that we don’t want memory foam (gel or otherwise) as the very top layer b/c of the heat factor but can see a purpose for it as a base in the comfort layer.
I have noticed there are not many manufacturers in the Houston area, but that you have also mentioned in some posts that Restonic can be a good product (it was being compared to Saatva, I believe) - so we thought we would locate a retailer that carries that brand to try it out.
Hopefully we are at least started in the right direction. If you know of other potential brands/manufacturers that you feel may be a good fit, we would certainly appreciate benefiting from your extensive knowledge. Many thanks.
They would certainly be well worth a phone call or a visit. They don’t make all latex mattresses as far as I know but they do make some mattresses that use latex in the comfort layers (see the first part of the page here).
There are two main parts to choosing a mattress. The first is the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP and for this I would use careful and objective testing and avoid using specs or having any preconceptions about what may work best for you because the specs won’t tell you how well a mattress will feel and perform for you. The second is durability and this is where you need to know the specs so that you can confirm that a mattress that works well in terms of PPP doesn’t have any weak links and uses durable materials. In other words … specs won’t tell you anything about PPP and your testing won’t tell you anything about the durability of the mattress. Both would be an important part of choosing a mattress but they are separate issues that need to be evaluated separately.
Some of the other options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Houston area are listed in post #2 here. Restonic is a licensee group that includes many independently owned manufacturers across the country. I include retailers that carry them them in many lists for different cities around the country because the odds are higher that you will be able to find out what is inside the mattresses they make but this doesn’t mean that any specific mattress they make would be a good match for you in terms of PPP or durability or the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you so you would need to make sure that any retailer you visit that carries them will be able to tell you the specifics of what is inside the models they carry (see this article).
The name of a manufacturer on a mattress is not nearly as important as whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP, that it uses high quality and durable materials relative to its price range, and that it compares well to your other finalists based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you. The steps are testing for PPP, checking for the quality/durability of the materials, and then comparing your finalist at each manufacturer or retailer for “value”.
Did some mattress field trips today. Went to Houston Mattress Factory - not a lot to “try out” there, but they do make whatever you want/need…However, since we are unsure what that is exactly, we then headed to Texas Mattress Makers. Great experience, but now a bit more confused than before.
They have a great selection. We were pretty set on trying to find a latex over foam, full latex (which they do carry now), or some sort of latex over coil bed (they do not have one of these). The gentleman explained they use a minimum of 3" of latex (of the same density) so with attempting to get it protected from the springs, it would apparently make a very plush mattress (depending on the ILD of the latex) since you would immediately have around 5" of "padding: latex + foam + plus cover. So that may not be a possibility for us. It certainly sounded appealing after doing all the research on quality materials and we’ve read they can “quilt” the softer latex.
We were directed to the microcoil beds, which, from our research here and elsewhere, seems like it would not hold up to my husband’s weight. But the gentleman absolutely said it would and they offer a 10 year full warranty - non-prorated.
They did have some regular innerspring with microcoil on top, plus a comfort layer - some were polyfoams, others were mfoam. We were steered away from these and the latex over foam bed - although I am not certain why at this point.
He suggested since we are 40, that we should be looking for firmer mattresses - however, I can pretty much guarantee my husband is not going to go that route.
We are continuing our research, but truly hope to purchase within the next week. We do believe their beds to be of good quality. They even had me lay straight on top of the microcoils without any padding on them - it was fairly comfortable just like that.
Any additional feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
I’m not sure where you read that a microcoil wouldn’t hold up to higher weights but I agree with them that they are a very durable component (see this article and post #10 here).
As you know Texas Mattress Makers is one of the members here which means I think highly of them and you are certainly dealing with a knowledgeable manufacturer that uses higher quality materials in their mattresses than you would find in most mainstream choices and you would certainly have some good quality/value options to choose from there.
I should have been more specific in my last post. They are manufacturing four beds that use pocketed HD microcoils as the entire support system. The bed we are looking at “called the Barcelona” is basically HD foam, then these microcoils, then 2" of HD polyfoam and then the quilting. I would prefer to add 1" of either gel memory foam or similar as it was a bit too firm for me - but my husband likes it and I think I can add a topper to my side to add some comfort for my shoulder when side sleeping.
He was very specific about the point of the bed being to support body alignment and not to feel all soft and comfortable as that can lead to aches and pains - because although they are comfortable when you lay down, they don’t always support the body effectively during the night.
I am a bit frustrated as I haven’t found another bed online to compare this model to - so difficult to compare value. If you know quickly offhand of something similar, please let me know. It definitely feels supportive and it was fairly comfortable (more so for him than me) so it may be a good fit. I will continue to try locating a comparable bed, but feel if nothing else is on the horizon, then this will be our choice and we believe it will work quite well.
I don’t see the specific model on their site so I’m not sure about the specifics of its construction. If you can list the specifics of all the layers and components (see this article) I’d be happy to make some comments about it but in general terms I know that they use good quality materials relative to their price range in all their mattresses. In most cases a microcoil refers to something like this or like this but if the “microcoil” you are referring to is a narrow diameter high coil count pocketed coil system such as the Quantum Coil here then there would be no issues with durability and the deeper support layers or components aren’t generally the weak link in a mattress anyway. A mattress will tend to soften and compress from the top layers down.
I certainly agree that alignment is the most important part of a mattress choice and many people tend to choose a mattress that is too soft because of the “showroom feel” which often doesn’t translate into the most suitable choice in “real life”.
There is more about “matching” one mattress to another one in post #9 here but I would need to know all the specific information about the Barcelona to be able to let you know if I’m aware of anything else off the top of my head that would be somewhat similar in design (although it may be very different in how it feels or performs) but it’s unlikely that you will find an online mattress that uses exactly the same materials and components.