Separate Topper vs Taller Mattress and 3 vs 4 layers?

Hi, I’m new to the forums and am currently in the market for a new mattress since my current one which is a rock hard and ancient cotton matters has developed a swoop in the middle greater than I can bear. I used to sleep on a tempurpedic but I gave it away in exchange for the used cotton mattress because it was better than the tempurpedic (didn’t get as hot at night, and I didn’t keep getting the recurring nightmare of drowning in quicksand).

So after doing a bit of research and looking about I decided I would go with an all latex mattress and went to the closest dealer to carry one which happened to be savvy brand mattresses. I tried a few of their configurations and the one I ended up liking most was the F Dunlop/M Dunlop/S Talalay from bottom to top, however I felt that it was still lacking a certain “cloud-like” aspect to it (although even their firmest combo which was F/F/M was softer and more comfortable than my current mattress) so I told the man at the store and he brought out a soft talalay latex topper also made by savvy and it felt perfect. Just the right amount of plushness and support.
But of coarse when I looked at the price tag for my ideal configuration it as around $4800 for a queen! So naturally I did a little more research looking for alternatives and discovered Sleep EZ which at first I was hesitant to trust given that their videos and website looked like a time machine to the 90’s, complete with strange sounding voiceovers, smooth jazz and “patented select sleep system and Swaptop” but reading up on this forum I have seen several satisfied costumers (enough to put aside my prejudice from the blurry videos) and seriously consider them since they seem to offer the same or at least very close quality to savvy but at almost half the price.

So alls well you would think, just order the same configuration that your tried in the store F dunlop/Medium dunlop/Soft talalay with a soft talalay topper? Well I noticed that they also have an option for having four layers of 3" latex instead of just three which means I could just integrate the topper by adding a soft talalay layer as the 4th layer instead of the topper? My question is would this create the same feel as just having a topper on top or would integrating somehow change the way the overall mattress feels?

And coincidentally since I am pretty light for my size 145-165lb at 6’ would be just as well off buying a 2 layer F Dunlop/S Talalay +Talalay topper or will I be noticeably reducing the comfort of the mattress by doing this? I don’t mind spending the extra money I just want to know if it will even be noticeable.

I know this is a bit of a jumbled mess but I appreciate any advice you could offer. Thanks!

Hi d3adrock,

As you probably know from your reading here SleepEZ is one of the members of this site which means I think very highly of them and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency and you are certainly looking at a great quality/value choice.

I would keep in mind that all the materials and components in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of all the other layers and the mattress “as a whole” so any differences in the covers or quilting materials along with any differences in the firmness of the latex layers or the design of the mattress will have some effect on how the mattress feels and performs and on how it compares to another mattress. The firmness of each of the layers in a SleepEZ mattress and in the Savvy Rest you tried may be slightly different so while they would be similar … they may not be exactly the same and if you are more sensitive to smaller differences between two mattresses you may notice some differences between them.

A separate topper can “act” a little more independently and “feel” a little softer outside a cover than it will by having the same layer inside the cover (see posts #3 and #4 here and the first page of posts in this topic.

I would also be somewhat cautious about using two soft layers as the top two layers in a sleeping system because with 6" of soft latex there would be a greater risk that the mattress could be too soft and may not keep your spine in good alignment (which can lead to lower back pain and discomfort). I would also keep in mind that you can’t “feel” a mattress when you are sleeping and a mattress that keeps your spine and joints in good alignment and relieves pressure points in all your sleeping positions (the first two P’s in PPP or Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) is always more important than the more subjective “feel” of a mattress.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with including Savvy Rest) than anyone else.

While “comfort” is very subjective and there is no way to know which one would be more “comfortable” for any specific person outside of their own personal sleeping experience (some people may feel that one is more more comfortable and others may feel the other one is more comfortable) … there would be a noticeable difference between them for most people yes (although there may be a few people who may not notice as much difference as most people would).

While you certainly aren’t in a weight range that would “need” 12" of latex … there are some people that may prefer it. There is more about the pros and cons of having more layers in post #2 here and there is also more about the effect of thickness (more layers would make a thicker mattress) in post #14 here.

The “best” advice I could give you would be to make sure that you have a more detailed conversation on the phone with SleepEZ before making your purchase.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59890]Hi d3adrock,

As you probably know from your reading here SleepEZ is one of the members of this site which means I think very highly of them and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency and you are certainly looking at a great quality/value choice.

I would keep in mind that all the materials and components in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of all the other layers and the mattress “as a whole” so any differences in the covers or quilting materials along with any differences in the firmness of the latex layers or the design of the mattress will have some effect on how the mattress feels and performs and on how it compares to another mattress. The firmness of each of the layers in a SleepEZ mattress and in the Savvy Rest you tried may be slightly different so while they would be similar … they may not be exactly the same and if you are more sensitive to smaller differences between two mattresses you may notice some differences between them.

A separate topper can “act” a little more independently and “feel” a little softer outside a cover than it will by having the same layer inside the cover (see posts #3 and #4 here and the first page of posts in this topic.

I would also be somewhat cautious about using two soft layers as the top two layers in a sleeping system because with 6" of soft latex there would be a greater risk that the mattress could be too soft and may not keep your spine in good alignment (which can lead to lower back pain and discomfort). I would also keep in mind that you can’t “feel” a mattress when you are sleeping and a mattress that keeps your spine and joints in good alignment and relieves pressure points in all your sleeping positions (the first two P’s in PPP or Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) is always more important than the more subjective “feel” of a mattress.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with including Savvy Rest) than anyone else.

While “comfort” is very subjective and there is no way to know which one would be more “comfortable” for any specific person outside of their own personal sleeping experience (some people may feel that one is more more comfortable and others may feel the other one is more comfortable) … there would be a noticeable difference between them for most people yes (although there may be a few people who may not notice as much difference as most people would).

While you certainly aren’t in a weight range that would “need” 12" of latex … there are some people that may prefer it. There is more about the pros and cons of having more layers in post #2 here and there is also more about the effect of thickness (more layers would make a thicker mattress) in post #14 here.

The “best” advice I could give you would be to make sure that you have a more detailed conversation on the phone with SleepEZ before making your purchase.

Phoenix[/quote]
Thanks, I’m planning on speaking with someone at sleep EZ tomorrow. I don’t know if my spine was aligned when I slept on the savvy topper at the store, I wish I had checked. I can and have slept on pretty much anything in the past up to hardwood floors but given a choice I seem to gravitate towards more pillowy feeling surfaces. What is a good way that I can find out if a particular combination will take my back out of alignment without trying it first and if a bed is too soft is that a guarantee that it will take your back out of alignment? Thanks again!

Hi d3adrock,

I would suggest the testing guidelines in step 4 of the mattress shopping tutorial.

The most common cause of lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft (either comfort layers that are too thick/soft or support layers that are too soft) and if a mattress is too soft “for you” and your hips/pelvis are sinking into the mattress too deeply then the odds are certainly higher that you could experience lower back pain or discomfort. Having said that … not everyone fits inside the “averages” of other people that have a similar body type and sleeping style so your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience and lack of any symptoms or discomfort is the most reliable way to know whether any specific mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) because each person is different.

There is more about what I call primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together relative to different body types and sleeping positions.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59892]Hi d3adrock,

I would suggest the testing guidelines in step 4 of the mattress shopping tutorial.

The most common cause of lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft (either comfort layers that are too thick/soft or support layers that are too soft) and if a mattress is too soft “for you” and your hips/pelvis are sinking into the mattress too deeply then the odds are certainly higher that you could experience lower back pain or discomfort. Having said that … not everyone fits inside the “averages” of other people that have a similar body type and sleeping style so your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience and lack of any symptoms or discomfort is the most reliable way to know whether any specific mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) because each person is different.

There is more about what I call primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together relative to different body types and sleeping positions.

Phoenix[/quote]
So I just got off the phone with both savvy and sleep ez. I got somewhat varying answers from both. The rep at sleep ez told me that she didn’t think that getting a layer of soft talalay and a soft talalay topper was a good idea and instead of the combination that I tried of F dunlop/M d/S talalay she recommended F/F/M or F/M/M with the soft talalay topper. She also said that part of the reason she said that is because using two soft layers would degrade the mattress faster (I am dubious about this, correct me if i’m wrong) and said that if it were to deteriorate faster that my warranty would be compromised because of it, which doesn’t sound right or fair in my opinion. Meanwhile the rep I spoke with at Savvy rest responded by saying that my preference for F.d/M.d/S.t with a soft talalaly topper was one of the most popular options and that she thought it would be a great combo for my sleep style and weight (Tall, light and curvy while being a side sleeper)

My remaining question is should I go ahead and order from sleep ez with the configuration I liked from savvy or should I follow the recommendation from sleep EZ even though I think it will be two firm? Looking at ILD’s for both each firmness level should be comparable but since I can’t try sleep EZ in person I don’t know for sure. Should I enquire further about the warranty info of having two soft layers from sleep EZ, it strikes me as very odd that they would use that as a warranty excuse? Wouldn’t it be advantageous to order F/M/S plus topper because if it is indeed too soft I could try it by switching the order to F/S/M plus topper to get the idea if it really is too soft and if it is I could exchange the layer versus not being able to go softer if I do F/M/M plus topper. Thanks!

Hi d3adrock,

SleepEZ has many decades of experience selling component latex mattresses and are very knowledgeable and experienced so not surprisingly I would agree with their comments about using two soft layers of Talalay latex.

This is something that only you can decide but if I was in your shoes I would tend to order the layering that they suggest and then if it becomes necessary you can always do a layer exchange. I would always keep in mind that what you need (good alignment and good pressure relief in all your sleeping positions) is more important than what you prefer and one of the most common “mistakes” that people make when they buy a new mattress is buying a mattress that is too soft.

A mattress that feels “comfy” in a store may not be a good indication of how well you will sleep on the same mattress which is why careful and objective testing can be very important.

People from the “old school” often think “firmer is better” and often tend to choose mattresses that are too firm and they don’t sink in enough to provide good support under the recessed curves of the body or don’t provide good pressure relief (especially for side sleepers). In some cases firmer mattresses can also be less costly because they use less material in the comfort layers so some people can choose a mattress that is too firm to be “comfortable” because they are paying more attention to the price of a mattress than whether a mattress is a suitable choice.

People that treat mattresses as a “luxury item” rather than a utilitarian purchase that has very specific functions tend to go by “showroom feel” or “subjective comfort” based on the initial “feel” of the mattress and often tend to choose mattresses that feel great in a showroom but don’t work nearly as well when they sleep on it because they have comfort layers that are too thick and soft or support layers that are too soft to “stop” the heavier parts of the body quickly enough to maintain good alignment over the course of the night…

Careful and objective testing is very different from the more limited or more “subjective” testing that most people often do when they choose a mattress based on “showroom feel” or “gut feel” which in many cases can have a lower chance of success than random chance alone (see this study).

They will be able to tell you which of their configurations are likely to be the closest to the different Savvy Rest configurations that you tried.

It’s not a matter of being an “excuse” but a matter of providing accurate and meaningful information to their customers based on many years of experience. I would also keep in mind that warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or more rapid) softening of foam materials that can happen over time and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it post #174 here.

If for example you were to purchase a mattress from Savvy Rest that was “on the edge” of being too soft for you then even a small amount of foam softening that would be normal can put you outside the comfort/support range that would be suitable for you (see post #2 here) and since it’s unlikely that there would be a visible impression that is more than 1.5" deep (see Savvy Rest’s warranty here which excludes visible impressions that are less than 1.5") then it wouldn’t be covered by your warranty and you would need to purchase a new layer to replace the layer that had softened the most.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59912]Hi d3adrock,

SleepEZ has many decades of experience selling component latex mattresses and are very knowledgeable and experienced so not surprisingly I would agree with their comments about using two soft layers of Talalay latex.

This is something that only you can decide but if I was in your shoes I would tend to order the layering that they suggest and then if it becomes necessary you can always do a layer exchange. I would always keep in mind that what you need (good alignment and good pressure relief in all your sleeping positions) is more important than what you prefer and one of the most common “mistakes” that people make when they buy a new mattress is buying a mattress that is too soft.

A mattress that feels “comfy” in a store may not be a good indication of how well you will sleep on the same mattress which is why careful and objective testing can be very important.

People from the “old school” often think “firmer is better” and often tend to choose mattresses that are too firm and they don’t sink in enough to provide good support under the recessed curves of the body or don’t provide good pressure relief (especially for side sleepers). In some cases firmer mattresses can also be less costly because they use less material in the comfort layers so some people can choose a mattress that is too firm to be “comfortable” because they are paying more attention to the price of a mattress than whether a mattress is a suitable choice.

People that treat mattresses as a “luxury item” rather than a utilitarian purchase that has very specific functions tend to go by “showroom feel” or “subjective comfort” based on the initial “feel” of the mattress and often tend to choose mattresses that feel great in a showroom but don’t work nearly as well when they sleep on it because they have comfort layers that are too thick and soft or support layers that are too soft to “stop” the heavier parts of the body quickly enough to maintain good alignment over the course of the night…

Careful and objective testing is very different from the more limited or more “subjective” testing that most people often do when they choose a mattress based on “showroom feel” or “gut feel” which in many cases can have a lower chance of success than random chance alone (see this study).

They will be able to tell you which of their configurations are likely to be the closest to the different Savvy Rest configurations that you tried.

It’s not a matter of being an “excuse” but a matter of providing accurate and meaningful information to their customers based on many years of experience. I would also keep in mind that warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or more rapid) softening of foam materials that can happen over time post #174 here.

If for example you were to purchase a mattress from Savvy Rest that was “on the edge” of being too soft for you then even a small amount of foam softening that would be normal can put you outside the comfort/support range that would be suitable for you (see post #2 here) and since it’s unlikely that there would be a visible impression that is more than 1.5" deep (see Savvy Rest’s warranty here which excludes visible impressions that are less than 1.5") then it wouldn’t be covered by your warranty and you would need to purchase a new layer to replace the layer that had softened the most.

Phoenix[/quote]

Since the difference in what they suggest is only one center layer wouldn’t it provide similar results to do F/S/M than F/M/M just to get an idea of which firmness really suits me better? Also generally how much time does it take to start feeling the back aches associated with a softer mattress?

Hi d3adrock,

Every layer and component in a mattress will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress “as a whole” so changing one layer would be enough for most (but not all) people to feel a difference. The only way to know how much difference you would feel will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

While it would depend to some degree on where you are in the “I can sleep on anything” to “princess and the pea” range … once a mattress has softened to a point that it is outside the comfort/support range that is suitable for you then you would probably feel any related symptoms fairly quickly (within a day or two).

If a mattress is “on the edge” when it is new then it can sometimes be a matter of weeks or months (sometimes even during the initial break in period … see post #3 here) before you begin to notice some symptoms that are related to a mattress that is too soft.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59914]Hi d3adrock,

Every layer and component in a mattress will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress “as a whole” so changing one layer would be enough for most (but not all) people to feel a difference. The only way to know how much difference you would feel will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

While it would depend to some degree on where you are in the “I can sleep on anything” to “princess and the pea” range … once a mattress has softened to a point that it is outside the comfort/support range that is suitable for you then you would probably feel any related symptoms fairly quickly (within a day or two).

If a mattress is “on the edge” when it is new then it can sometimes be a matter of weeks or months (sometimes even during the initial break in period … see post #3 here) before you begin to notice some symptoms that are related to a mattress that is too soft.

Phoenix[/quote]
So do you think it is impractical to get a F/M/S to determine more or less what a F/M/M would more or less feel like in order to get a better idea of weather I should go firmer or softer?

Hi d3adrock,

F/M/S will feel different from F/M/M (or any other combination of layers) but considering your preference for softer mattresses and your lighter body weight if you are considering a 3 layer mattress then it would probably be a better starting point than F/M/M.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59916]Hi d3adrock,

F/M/S will feel different from F/M/M (or any other combination of layers) but considering your preference for softer mattresses and your lighter body weight if you are considering a 3 layer mattress then it would probably be a better starting point than F/M/M.

Phoenix[/quote]
I understand it will feel different but since it’s impossible for me to try sleep ez’s mattress in person do you think it will offer me a good way to test out relative firmness and support so that if I need I can change out the soft for a medium? The reason I want to know is because if I go with F/M/M there is no way to configure it to get a general idea of what a softer mattress would feel like but with F/S/M it will at least provide a vague idea that I need a firmer layer at which point I can exchange the soft for another medium.

Thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated!

Hi d3adrock,

Any combination of layers will give you a chance to try out and compare the relative comfort/pressure relief, support/alignment, and “feel” of the different combinations that are possible with the layers that you have but again each combination of layering will be different from the others. If none of them are suitable for you in terms of PPP then you would also be able to use your sleeping experience and any “symptoms” (or lack of symptoms) you experience on different combinations as a guideline and reference point for deciding on any layer exchange or other additions or changes that would have the best chance of success.

I would avoid “theory at a distance” and focus instead on your actual sleeping experience once you make your initial layering choices.

It would also make sense to start with a 3 layer mattress because you can always add a 4th layer (as a topper) if you wish to or if your actual sleeping experience indicates that it would likely be helpful.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59919]Hi d3adrock,

Any combination of layers will give you a chance to try out and compare the relative comfort/pressure relief, support/alignment, and “feel” of the different combinations that are possible with the layers that you have but again each combination of layering will be different from the others. If none of them are suitable for you in terms of PPP then you would also be able to use your sleeping experience and any “symptoms” (or lack of symptoms) you experience on different combinations as a guideline and reference point for deciding on any layer exchange or other additions or changes that would have the best chance of success.

I would avoid “theory at a distance” and focus instead on your actual sleeping experience once you make your initial layering choices.

It would also make sense to start with a 3 layer mattress because you can always add a 4th layer (as a topper) if you wish to or if your actual sleeping experience indicates that it would likely be helpful.

Phoenix[/quote]
Thanks! That will guide me decision. All little off topic, I was doing some further research and came across this company called reverie and I also noticed that they are also members of this site. I know their basic structure and how they function, my question is, have you or anyone you know tried one and how do they compare to a 3 or 4 layer traditional latex mattress?

Hi d3adrock,

I’ve never slept on any of the Reverie Dream mattresses so I have no personal experience with any of them.

How they would compare to another 3 or 4 layer mattress would depend on the specifics of the Reverie mattress you were comparing and the configuration of the cylinders, the specifics of the mattress you were comparing it to, and on the body type, sleeping positions, sensitivities, preferences and frame of reference of the person that was comparing them. There are some comments about the Reverie Dream mattresses in posts #2 and #6 here and a forum search on Reverie Dream (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn’t a way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort” and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses.

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so while you may find some local mattresses that use “similar” materials or designs and there would be many others that are in a similar general category or firmness range … they will generally have different combinations of foam layers and components.

Unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to “match” or “approximate” another one in terms of firmness or “feel” and PPP (or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the “averages” of a larger group of people) … the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they “feel” or in terms of firmness or PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

If you have the specifications of all the materials and layers in two mattresses you are comparing (see this article) then making durability comparisons based on the specifications of both mattresses is simpler than trying to compare “comfort” and PPP (which is much more subjective) but the durability of the materials in a mattress has very little to do with how if feels or performs because the durability of the materials in a mattress has little to with how they feel.

In other words … there would be so many differences in the design and components of the two mattresses you are comparing that the only reliable way to know how they would compare to another mattress for you (regardless of how they would compare for anyone else) would be based on your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience on both of them.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=59922]Hi d3adrock,

I’ve never slept on any of the Reverie Dream mattresses so I have no personal experience with any of them.

How they would compare to another 3 or 4 layer mattress would depend on the specifics of the Reverie mattress you were comparing and the configuration of the cylinders, the specifics of the mattress you were comparing it to, and on the body type, sleeping positions, sensitivities, preferences and frame of reference of the person that was comparing them. There are some comments about the Reverie Dream mattresses in posts #2 and #6 here and a forum search on Reverie Dream (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn’t a way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort” and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses.

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so while you may find some local mattresses that use “similar” materials or designs and there would be many others that are in a similar general category or firmness range … they will generally have different combinations of foam layers and components.

Unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to “match” or “approximate” another one in terms of firmness or “feel” and PPP (or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the “averages” of a larger group of people) … the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they “feel” or in terms of firmness or PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

If you have the specifications of all the materials and layers in two mattresses you are comparing (see this article) then making durability comparisons based on the specifications of both mattresses is simpler than trying to compare “comfort” and PPP (which is much more subjective) but the durability of the materials in a mattress has very little to do with how if feels or performs because the durability of the materials in a mattress has little to with how they feel.

In other words … there would be so many differences in the design and components of the two mattresses you are comparing that the only reliable way to know how they would compare to another mattress for you (regardless of how they would compare for anyone else) would be based on your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience on both of them.

Phoenix[/quote]
Thanks again, that is extremely helpful although a little disheartening. There more I search and research mattresses the more frustrated I am becoming. It is really difficult to buy anything without trying it and it is difficult to try anything without buying. And the worst thing is statistics and measurements are basically worthless unless you’ve tried similar stuff and even then it is subjective. This is a nightmare for hyper analytical people like me that just like to look at stats and info to determine the “absolute best”. But in mattresses there is no absolute best, there is only subjective and varied opinions, it’s horrible! Not at all like buying a computer, where all the data about every component is in neat little comparable categories that will preform equally for everybody.

Ok end of rant. I will post back after purchasing my mattress in the next couple days (which i’m 99% sure will be a Sleep EZ despite the silly name that sounds like something you would see on a late night TV shopping channel.) and sleeping on it a while.

Thanks again for all your help!

Hi d3adrock,

The first “rule” of mattress shopping (and mattress layering) is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a certain combination of layers will “feel” to you or compare to other combinations based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or your personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

You’re right that buying a mattress is more like buying food or clothes where personal preferences play a very large role in deciding on the best choice for you (regardless of whether the same choice would be suitable for anyone else).

Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would only be a very small percentage of people) … I would avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of information or specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you or how it will compare to another mattress and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. While knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important … when you try and choose or compare a mattress based on complex combinations of “comfort” specs that you may not fully understand then the most common outcome can often be “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”.

In its simplest form … choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to first finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in (either locally or online) and that can provide you with all the information you need to know to make an informed choice and make meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

  2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

As you know you are certainly looking at making a great quality/value choice (regardless of how you feel about the name of the company) and assuming that you decide to pull the trigger I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I just received my mattress from Sleep EZ and boy is it nice! I have to say I think I may even like it better than the savvy rest I tried. I was a little apprehensive of ordering from Sleep EZ because it seemed too good to be true, but it’s every bit as good as it seems and better, and I promise i’m not a secret representative, I’m about the most skeptical person you will meet.I have to say it feels fantastic and I’m really glad I went with a separate topper! In the end the guy at Sleep EZ convinced me to go with a 2 layer plus topper instead of three layers. To anyone reading this looking for or considering a latex mattress Sleep EZ is awesome, they also have me 2 free pillows and a set of egyptian cotton sheets!
Right now out of the box I think it’s a little too firm for my light weight and bony shoulders. My shoulders is where I feel it the most because they feel a little compressed (miles ahead of my old mattress however) but it’s hard to tell since I had my friend check my back alignment and it seems straight. Since it’s brand new i’ll give it at least a month or 2 before I try exchanging a layer for a softer one. Thanks for everyones help! I feel that i’ve made an excellent and informed decision thanks to all the info in this forum.

Hi d3adrock,

Thanks for the update … and I guess now I can “officially” say congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

It’s great to hear that your purchase worked out so well for you and I’m looking forward to your next update once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a little longer and and your mattress has has the chance to break in a little (see post #3 here).

Phoenix

So its been a couple of months and I’m sleeping pretty well on my new mattress, miles ahead of my old one, however it still feels a bit too firm and I realize that I wake up a couple times a night and roll over on my back because my shoulder doesn’t feel like it is sinking in enough. The top layer which is soft Talalay feels fine but underneath that the other 2 layers which are a medium and a firm feel too unyielding. I called SleepEz and the girl who I spoke with recommended changing the very bottom layer from a firm to a medium but I think that I should change the middle layer from a medium to a soft, I don’t really know what to do, Since I tried at a store the soft/soft/medium/firm configuration and I really liked it although I didn’t sleep on it. So now my choices are go with what the lady from SleepEz said which would be a S/M/M or go with a S/S/F which would mean I just have to exchange the one layer or go with and exchange from 3 layer to 4 of S/S/M/F which is what I originally wanted to do but was dissuaded saying that I wouldn’t be able to feel all the layers but I think that having more of a transition would be nice since thats what I feel I’m lacking, that the soft layer is good but it ends too quickly. What is your opinion? Should I listen to the rep or should I follow my gut feeling and do the full exchange to the 4 layer? Thanks!

Hi d3adrock,

Unfortunately there is no way for me to know which combination of layers you will do best on based on specs (yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own personal sleeping experience.

Having said that … I would tend to prioritize support/alignment which is the single most important factor in your body’s ability to rest and recover over the course of the night. The next most important factor would be pressure relief and the least important factor would be the more subjective “feel” of a mattress.

All of the options you are considering would result in a softer mattress (to different degrees) but I would be cautious about making changes that are too big and may “jump over” the layering combination that is the most suitable for you because it seems like the combination you have now is very close to being a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences).

The suggestions that they are providing come from many years of experience based on the “averages” of their customers that are similar to you although of course not everyone fits inside the averages of other people. I would also keep in mind that what you may “think you need” based on more subjective assessments of “comfort” or “feel” alone may be different from what your body actually needs.

While I can’t tell you what you “should do” because this will really be a matter of “informed best judgement” … I would keep in mind that based on “averages” having two soft layers would be a more risky choice both in terms of having suitable support/alignment and in terms of durability as well (thicker layers of softer materials will be less durable than firmer layers of the same material).

If your mattress is a little bit too firm then some of the suggestions in post #2 here may be helpful as well.

Phoenix