We have a Serta I-series Vantage King mattress about 4 years old which broken down much like the one on Ken Hightower’s website. We are considering a rebuild similar to what Ken did on YouTube.
I am 6’-4" , 225 lbs. and my wife is 5’-3", 230 lbs. Both of us are side sleepers. I haven’t started tearing into the mattress yet, so am not sure of the construction. I plan to open a seam on the foot end for a foot or so to check out how it’s made and measure the coil spring section height. I would plan to remove the pillow top and the foam layers down to the springs.
At the moment we are considering a Bamboo cover with two 3" Dunlop latex medium firm top layers from APMC. Does this sound like a workable solution? Thanks, Victor
I would do one firm dunlop and a medium talalay which will be better than dunlop for a side sleeper. Let me know what you find inside the mattress and what kind of coils you have.
Ken Hightower: Thanks for the reply and suggestions.
The surgery is complete and the patient survived (well mostly)! I opened the seam between the pillow top and the mattress body for distance of about two feet at the foot end. The pillow top looks to be similar or probably identical to the one on your Serta YouTube video. I didn’t cut into it to verify since it needed to stay intact for now. Under the pillow top is 1" of blue gel foam, 1" of poly foam, the pocket coil springs and about 1" of higher density foam on the bottom. The pocket coils are surrounded by a 4" layer of the same foam as on the bottom.
For the rebuild I would plan to remove and discard the pillow top, gel foam, poly foam and the old ticking, while retaining the pocket coils, bottom foam and the foam surrounding the springs. A 3" topper of latex foam would be added above the pocket coils, all covered with a Bamboo zipper cover.
Questions:
Do I need to add a layer of protection between the pocket coil springs and the latex?
You recommended one firm Dunlop and a medium Talalay in the previous post for a side sleeper. Since we are both side sleepers should both be Talalay?
The pocket coils and bottom foam are about 9" in height. Will a 12" cover compress the latex and springs enough or should a shorter cover be used?
I am ready to place an order when the details are resolved.
You do not need anything between the pocket coils and the latex. I would go with all talalay for side sleepers. The 12" cover sounds to be perfect for what you are planning just double check the height of the springs and base foam to be sure it’s no more than 9".
Order for (2) 3" TwinXL Talalay latex topper and a King Bamboo plush zipper cover was placed with APMC yesterday. I ordered the two TwinXL toppers instead of one King topper so if in the future one of us wants to try something else we can easily do so. Now the wait begins!
Latex and cover arrived today. Transplant surgery is scheduled for tomorrow! I will take step-by-step photos as works proceeds and post them on this thread.
Patient is a Serta I-series Vantage king made by Palu Bedding Co. of OKC according to the mfg. tag. I plan to reuse the mesh foundations which were also made by Palu, assuming they are still in good condition. The foam encased pocket coils will be reused with a layer of 3" Talalay latex on top enclosed in a APMC bamboo cover.
The surgery is complete and the Lady of the House has already proclaimed it a success! The patient was the Serta I-series Vantage king (See previous post #9 for Manufacturer’s tag info). The operation was probably more stressful on the surgeon than the patient. The mattress was slightly over 3 years old and had an original cost with foundations of about $2150. Photos of the rebuild are posted below.
The surgery started by un-raveling the top seam using methods shown in Ken Hightower’s video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ6lE66sisc . The pillow top had a strip of synthetic fabric sewn to the bottom edge which was then fastened to the foam encased pocket coil spring base with 1" industrial staples, a whole lot of industrial staples! Fortunately the staples pulled easily with the use of needle nose pliers. The pillow top was snipped open to check construction. Under the outer fabric was a layer of batt material (Dacron fire barrier?) followed by 3 layers of 1/2" thick soft poly foam which had completely deteriorated.
Removing the pillow top exposed a 1" thick layer of blue gel infused memory foam which was in very poor condition, having broken down and split in two places. Glued to the under side the memory foam was a 1" thick layer of soft poly foam which was also in poor condition. The underside of the poly foam layer was then glued to a layer of synthetic fabric which was also glued to the tops of the pocket coil fabric covering. Removing the glued on foam proved to be the first real challenge. I’m convinced Serta uses world class glue! (Too bad they don’t also use world class foam). It was very time consuming to remove the foam without leaving large chunks glued to the pocket coils. The foam and the remainder of the ticking was removed and the next challenge reared it’s ugly head.
Weight of the foam encased pocket coil spring base was grossly underestimated. An old codger like me really needed a helper at this point, but none was readily available. I tried to insert the pocket coil base into the new APMC Bamboo and Wool cover (Which is very well made and attractive, by the way) by using a method suggested in another video. The mattress cover is laid on the foundations, the corners aligned, and the sides of cover are pulled down inside out over the foundations. The base is then placed on the cover, the corners of the base aligned with the cover, and the cover is pulled up into position. Easy, huh? Not for me in this instance. The base was too heavy to lift completely clear of the cover. The cover would move out of alignment when attempting to move the base into position. The foam in the base has a slightly sticky surface that stuck firmly to the cover fabric when moved and pulled it out of position. After several failed attempts and a few choice words, a lunch break was due.
After discussing several other base into cover schemes during lunch a decision was made. The base was turned over upside down on the floor and the cover pulled down into position. After corner alignment was checked the next task was to turn the base back over without moving the cover. Worked like a charm! The sticky texture of the foam held the cover fabric in position very nicely! The pocket coil springs must be affixed to the base foam also, because they stayed in place nicely even when upside down.
The next step was to position the two 3" thick medium Talalay latex foam sections on the foam encased pocket coil spring base (Two separate side-by-side latex sections were used in case one of us wants to try a different firmness). This was easily accomplished and the cover was zipped closed. Job Done!!!
Good job!! You have passed the test and are ready to come work for us in this 110 degree heat. I’m sure I speak for others with a big thank you for documenting the procedure so well. Many people thought I was crazy for posting the How To videos but people like you have made it all worthwhile. Now it’s time to reap the rewards. Sleep well!
[quote=“Arizona Premium” post=78647]Good job!! You have passed the test and are ready to come work for us in this 110 degree heat. I’m sure I speak for others with a big thank you for documenting the procedure so well. Many people thought I was crazy for posting the How To videos but people like you have made it all worthwhile. Now it’s time to reap the rewards. Sleep well!
[/quote]
Thanks for the kind words and job offer! In my younger days, I’m 83 years now, I used to spend a lot of time in the Phoenix area, but in January and February! I live in Oklahoma and we have our hot, humid weather also, but thankfully not this year. Remarkably it’s only 75F outside today when normally it would be 95F or even much hotter.
I do have a question. When placing the Talalay latex foam on the pocket coil base, I was unsure if there was a top or bottom side to the foam. One side has larger sized holes than the other. Does it make a difference? Thinking the large hole side might be a bit softer, I laid that side up on the Lady’s half and the smaller hole side up on my half. Should I switch?
In hindsight, I think the procedure post would have been more readable with a lot more photos and less prose. Comments, anyone?
I had noticed a small amount of sagging on each side of the mattress in the sleep positions after the rebuild. At the time I suspected the pocket coils or more likely the wire mesh foundations were the culprit. After about 10 days use the sag has become much more pronounced. The large amount of additional weight of the latex foam compared to the poly foam I removed has caused the wire mesh in the foundations to take a permanent set. I’ve not checked the pocket coil springs for sagging as the mattress would need to be on a flat surface and it’s too dang heavy for me to move easily now. I don’t believe the springs are the problem.
I will need to either beef up the existing foundations or replace them altogether. I thought of using sheets of plywood screwed to the existing foundations, but am not sure if a solid, non-ventilated base is a good idea. Or I could also attach slats across the existing foundations leaving a space between them for ventilation.
If I decide to replace the foundations I may want to consider an adjustable base. Problem with that idea is whether the Serta foam encased pocket coil base is flexible enough to use on an adjustable base. Anyone with experience using the Serta I-series on an adjustable base?
Thanks! I hadn’t had time to check the Serta website for adjustable base compatibility yet. Don’t know if the rebuild mods affected flexibility. I would think any changes would be slight if at all.
Serta’s branded adjustable bases are no different from any other brand as far as compatibility so you do not need to buy their version. I think Ergo Motion makes theirs but not sure if that’s still true. If your mattress works on their brand it will work on any brand is the point.
The layer above the coils of “synthetic fabric” that was glued down just above the coils is an insulation layer. A padding layer that does a couple of things.
It prevents cupping on the material above it, and prevents springs from ripping into it if the coil has breached the pocket.
It helps to distribute the bodyweight over the springs more effectively. More a side effect. But it is an intended design. Its not meant to be optional.
The layer of latex, heavy enough, you might not need it, but since these are pocketed coils, it may explain why you experienced further sagging. If rebasing the mattress hasn’t helped you, consider also trying to add a new layer above the springs but below the topper.
Whats commonly used today is spunbond polypropylene non woven fabric. I used an upholstery underlining from joanns fabric. Maybe there are suppliers in the US that could sell more specific fabric for mattress springs.
From Ken Hightower:
“Serta’s branded adjustable bases are no different from any other brand as far as compatibility so you do not need to buy their version. I think Ergo Motion makes theirs but not sure if that’s still true. If your mattress works on their brand it will work on any brand is the point.”
Reply:
Understood. I was looking for information about mattress compatibility. If we decide to go with an adjustable base it will be one of the L & P models.
From Mike 77:
"The layer above the coils of “synthetic fabric” that was glued down just above the coils is an insulation layer. A padding layer that does a couple of things.
It prevents cupping on the material above it, and prevents springs from ripping into it if the coil has breached the pocket.
It helps to distribute the bodyweight over the springs more effectively. More a side effect. But it is an intended design. Its not meant to be optional.
The layer of latex, heavy enough, you might not need it, but since these are pocketed coils, it may explain why you experienced further sagging. If rebasing the mattress hasn’t helped you, consider also trying to add a new layer above the springs but below the topper.
Whats commonly used today is spunbond polypropylene non woven fabric. I used an upholstery underlining from joanns fabric. Maybe there are suppliers in the US that could sell more specific fabric for mattress springs.
Its worth considering."
Reply:
The “synthetic fabric” I referred to in the rebuild post was very securely glued to the pocket coil fabric. It would have been difficult to remove. Seeing no reason to remove it, I left it in place. I know little about fabrics or how they are made, but my impression was the fabric was a fairly thin woven material. It was not. a thicker, spun, batt like material like the material in the pillow top. The outer edges of the fabric were also glued to the top edge of the foam encasing the pocket coils. Some of the fabric came loose from the foam when I removed the poly foam glued to the fabric. No attempt was made to re-glue the fabric to the foam.
The foam encased pocket coil spring base and the 3" thick latex foam don’t leave any room for another layer in the mattress cover.
