Thank you for starting this website: it really opened my eyes to how big a racket big mattress manufactures are and to consider the other alternatives. My last mattress was a Sealy spring/pillowtop mattress from MattressFirm. It cost around $800 and only performed for about a year before I started having issues with it. I was glad I ended up at your website after a few Google searches.
I live in the San Antonio Texas area and took one of your recommendations to give B&M Mattress a try. So far, the owner Ray has been great to work with and even agreed to meet us on Sunday on his day off. My fiance and I are both side sleepers with a budget to spend no greater than $1,500. With your website, I was able to have enough knowledge to at least ask a few questions in our consultation. Afterwards, I e-mailed him the list of 5 questions you recommended. His response for the construction:
- 2" Quilted Bamboo Stretch Knit top (cotton & bamboo blend)
- 3" 100 % Natural Dunlop Latex Euro Top - Med Firm 28-32 ILD (not blended)
- Non Skin Fire Barrier
- .5" 1828 poly foam
- .125" poly / cotton Insulator Pad
- 6.75" 614 13ga Verti Coil Innerspring
- .125" poly / cotton Insulator Pad
- .5" 1828 poly foam
- Non Skin Fire Barrier
- Total height of mattress 12.5" - 13"
This would be with mattress, foundation, bed frame, delivered for $1535. I kind of price shopped it with Denver Mattress and it seems to be in line with some of their offerings. Given the limited information provided, do you see any weaknesses with the build that seem to stick out? I feel a little bit more well-verse on the latex foam than I am the spring builds, so I don’t know how well that layer really stacks up. Any information missing?
Thanks again your time and this site. Any help would be appreciated. I will be sure to provide you feedback of the experience.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, the other mattres I have been considering is Saavta’s luxury firm. A coworker of mine has had several outstanding customer service experience with them and speaks very highly of them. Several entertaining threads on Saavta around here :-D. Anyhow, It appears to be a solid mattress for my price range, however, it runs a few hundred dollars more (around $1700)
The only information that is missing is the materials that are used in the quilting layers (the 2" layer on top).
If this was a lower density polyfoam then it would be a little “on the edge” in terms of thickness and I would normally want to know the type and quality of the material once a quilting layer is 2" or more.
Other than this “unknown” … all the other layers look good to me and the 100% natural latex which is the main material in the comfort layer is certainly a high quality and durable material and there are no obvious weak links in the mattress. If it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP then it would certainly be well worth considering IMO.
You can see a more detailed analysis and my comments about the Saatva mattress in post #1 here and it sounds like you’ve already done a forum search on Saatva and seen some of the other comments and feedback about them as well.
It would certainly be a better quality/value choice for most people compared to the type of mainstream mattresses that most people end up buying.
The other available options for this would be to get 2" of foam instead of 3" of foam for around $100-150 cheaper. You think the cost/benefit of that is there for the price. I’m thinking the more foam the better right.
I suspect it may be not the best foam material in there. He can put either a plush (kinda like no top I guess, or very firm) 2" or 3". It’s all the same price. I have had the experience of a bad pillow top mattress: is it a viable option to go very thin on built-in pillow top, just to opt for a higher quality “topper”. Is that a strategy people have much success with?
If the foam is low quality/density then more is worse.
If the foam is a good quality/density material then the “right” amount is the “best” amount. Too much or too little for you can both lead to a mattress that is unsuitable for you. All the layers and components of a mattress interact together and if you do some careful and objective testing on a mattress and the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then the amount of foam in it is “right” … for you.
Any “strategy” or mattress design can work well for some people … and be completely unsuitable for others. I would avoid trying to “design” your own mattress ahead of time and focus on what your mattress testing and your body tells you and then if a mattress is a good match for you then all you have to do is make sure that it uses good quality and durable materials so that it won’t soften or break down too quickly relative to the price you paid. Post #13 here has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase.
If you can test a mattress/topper combination in person then it can be just as good a choice as any other sleeping system that works well for you. If you can’t test a mattress/topper combination in person then I would avoid this approach unless there are no better alternatives or if in spite of your best efforts you end up purchasing a mattress that is too firm for you because without testing the combination in person it can be almost as difficult to choose a suitable topper that works well for you with a specific mattress as choosing a mattress in the first place (the specifics of the mattress will make a significant difference in what topper will work best for you).
If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time you will have the best chance of making a successful mattress purchase.
Well, we ended up looking at Cantwell Mattress this prior weekend and found a bed that we really liked. It is made of 3" of natural talalay and 3"of synthetic talalay (I really didn’t like their foam/spring hybrid option at all). The price is a little more at $2,000. They were also a little more transparent about the make-up of the quilting layer and it sounds quality (note, I never called B&M back to clarify, but was under the impression from conversation the quilting layer in the Cantwell was better quality.)
I found the first mattress to be a pretty good fit, however, I think I liked this latest mattress even better at Cantwell, and being all foam for just $500 more seems pretty reasonable. As long as both meet PPP for me than all foam should be better than having the spring component as far as durability goes I’m thinking. One thing that concerned me a little is that B&M mattress was a little against using talalay foam(he only uses it on request), as he had found in his experience that it breaks down/impresses easier than dunlap. Through the forum search I researched this a little, but have you found this to be true about talalay, or are they both pretty resilient?
As always, thanks for your insight.
The comfort layers of a mattress are generally the weak link of a mattress and Talalay latex is certainly a good quality and durable material so as long as there isn’t thick layers of lower quality foam in the quilting then there should be no durability issues. The support layers of a mattress generally aren’t the weak link in terms of durability so the choice between a foam support layer (such as polyfoam or latex) or an innerspring would normally be a preference issue more than a durability issue.
You will find manufacturers who believe that Talalay is more durable and others that believe just as strongly that Dunlop is more durable but in reality they are both very durable materials and I would treat them as equals. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. Any differences in durability would likely depend more on some of the specifics of the mattress designs they are used to making than on the type of latex they are using. There could be many reasons for his experience and belief such as tending to use latex that is on the softer side (any softer foam is less durable than a firmer foam) or using 100% natural Talalay which can be less durable than blended Talalay in softer versions, or even the thickness of any polyfoam quilting layers above the latex that they typically use which can affect the useful life of a mattress. There is more in post #18 here and the posts it links to in reply to the same question from another member. In any case … both Talalay and Dunlop latex have a long history going back decades of being a very durable material.
Talalay is also more “resilient” than Dunlop but resilience is a property of foam that measures how high a ball bounces when it’s dropped on the material (see post #7 here) … it’s not a measure of durability.
