SIMMONS BEAUTY REST

Annie, is Greensboro too far? There’s a local guy here who sells good stuff from what I can tell and can custom make most anything. His prices are great and his showroom is small and straightforward.

Hi felice,

The 3" is only a guideline and a place to begin testing. The final “best” layering would depend on the layers below and above the comfort layers as well (the quilting foam is part of the comfort layers) and your own personal testing should “take over” from the guidelines once you start testing. For example … a 2" layer may work best for someone who was lighter and with a softer more conforming support layer below it (and pocket coils are a “softer” more conforming type of innerspring). On the other hand … with a firmer less conforming support layer … you may need thicker/softer foam on top to better isolate you from the firmness of the support layers. My personal “recommendation” would always be to use the thinnest comfort layers that provide you with good pressure relief in your most “curvy” sleeping position which for most people like yourself would be side sleeping because this usually leads to the best alignment possible as well. Personal testing for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Preferences) is always more accurate than “theory at a distance” though which can be a good starting point or can be used as a guideline for making changes when your own experience indicates something isn’t quite right.

I believe that all of the first three choices on the Boston list provide good value on an every day basis and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a mattress from any of them if my testing showed me it worked well for my needs and preferences and was within my budget. All of them provide much better quality and value than anything you would be likely to find in a chain store or in a larger brand.

Phoenix

Hi Pheonix. So I purchased the 2" talalay latex pocketed coil mattress from Gardner. The 3in was too soft but the 2in was a bit too firm. They were unable to make a custon 2.5in so I purchased the 2in. They said it would prob soften a bit over the first few weeks. I’ve been sleeping on it for about a week. The Latex certainly countours well to my body however I need a bit more plsuhness bec it feels too firm. It also sleeps slightly warmer than a non-foam mattress. My plan is to buy a matress topper to provide some extra plushness for comfort. I was thinking that a down or down alternative would give me the benefot of some extra plushness and may sleep a bit cooler. I was leaning toward down alternative because am concerned that the down feathers would poke thru. I compared the 2 at a bed bath beyond and could defintiely feel the quills in a goose down. I found an All Season Down Alternative topper on amazon for approx $70 that appeared to have good reviews. I was hoping you could provide some advice. Thanks!!

Hi felice,

The down alternative mattress pads (or fiberbeds) are made from polyester fiber or in some cases (like ingeo) bioplastics and will really only help with surface feel and are not really resilient enough to provide a lot of extra cushioning at least in the long term. They will compress fairly quickly and lose their loft. High quality down will be more durable and more “fluffable” but of course can also have it’s own issues with allergies and good quality (without the feathers that will stick through) is also more expensive. It also is not as resilient as wool and is more sensitive to moisture and dust mites. Synthetic fibers are also not as breathable and temperature regulating or resilient as wool or silk.

Personally I would go in the direction of wool or other natural natural fibers like silk in spite of the greater expense if you still need to do some fine tuning after you have slept on the mattress for a few weeks. A down alternative will give you some localized cushioning for a while but not to the same degree as wool and it certainly won’t last as long. You could also look at a shredded latex topper such as this or this. One of our members “coventry” ordered the Amazon version (see post #7 here) and hopefully she will have a chance to give us her feedback.

ADDED: You can see her review here.

The biggest advantage of a fiberbed is that they are good value and low cost so they are inexpensive to try without a lot of risk. If they work for you then you have an inexpensive solution for a while.

You also made a good choice IMO in going a little bit firmer rather than softer because it is much easier to soften up a mattress than it is to make it firmer :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Pheonix, I did some research on wool toppers. Here are the best options I could find:
2 major types, stuffed vs wool fibers attached to a backing. Any thoughts??

  1. “Natura” Aloe Wool Stuffed Topper ($95 best internet price at Organic Sleep Products). Top is made of 50/50 cotton and Aloe Viscuse. Filling is 18oz/yard SmartWool (tm – synthetic wool made by Natura). Bottom is 100% cotton. Queen has 4lb of wool stuffing. Claims that Aloe infusion provides extra softness and that smartwool is more moisture wicking than regular wool. Not sure if synthetic wool is better to or inferior to natural??
  2. "Sleep & Beyond " Stuffed Wool Topper ($269 best internet price at GoodNight Naturals). Cover is 300 thread count 100% organic Jaquard cotton. Filling is 30oz/yard organic merino wool. Thickness is 1.5 inches. Queen has 8lbs of wool fill.
  3. “SnugFleece” : USA merino wool fibers attached to a backing
    A)Snugsoft Elite wool mattress pad: 1 ½" pile height, 65oz/yard ($261 best internet price at DreamSoft Bedware). In the SnugSoft line the wool fibers are knitted through a woven polyester machine washable backing. This allows for machine washing and drying. Not sure if having the poly thread/backing will be a problem??
    B)SnugFleece II wool mattress pad: 1 3/4" pile height, 60 oz/yard ($242 best internet price at DreamSoft Bedware). Have a cotton backing onto which the wool fibers are bonded. This is dry-cleanable.
    C)SnugFleece Original: 1 ¾" pile height, 86oz/yard, cotton backing ($303)

Hi Felice,

I can see we’ve been going in parallel directions in our research and I appreciate your feedback :slight_smile:

I’ve spent the last few days adding to my knowledge about what and who makes a high quality and value wool topper so I could reply to your post in a more accurate and educational way.

There is a wide range of different options including wool inside organic cotton covers and as you mentioned the fleece wool where you sleep directly on the wool itself which is backed either by polyester or organic cotton. Many of the different products use different types of wool and different densities and thicknesses of wool as well. Some use actual organic certified wool while some use equivalent quality wool without the added expense and cost of organic certification. I particularly liked that there are some very good quality and privately owned manufacturers in the industry that are very helpful and knowledgeable when you ask them some very detailed questions on the phone.

In general terms … the fleece has a very nice “feel” but would not be as strongly resilient as wool batting that was pre-compressed and quilted or tufted. Wool that is aligned more up and down such as in a fleece material would pack down more easily than wool batting that is aligned horizontally, pre-compressed or tufted which has a stronger resilience and is more supportive (it has more “lift” but less “travel”). Because of the difference between a fleece layer and a batted wool layer … the fleece will also not redistribute weight in the same way so the surface feel would “feel” softer but the pressure relief would be more localized. You can read a little more about how a wool topper may perform in post #8 here.

My choice would be based on how much wool I wanted to add to my sleeping system, the thickness of the topper I was looking at, the type of maintenance required, and the degree of “fine tuning” I was looking for. It would also depend on the relative value of the different types (comparing apples to apples in terms of materials and amount of wool used), the return privileges (if that is an issue), the lifespan, what was involved in replacing the topper at the end of its life. Perhaps most importantly it would depend on the type of feel and performance I was looking for and the knowledge and ability of each outlet to listen to what I was trying to achieve and their advice about which of their products would best meet my needs and why. When you are dealing with products like these that are more difficult to meaningfully compare, I place a very high value on the ability of the retailer or manufacturer to help me make the best choice for my specific circumstances. I also tend to lean towards outlets that manufacture their own products or at least deal directly with the manufacturer and are very knowledgeable in their own right.

The manufacturers that I am particularly impressed with (at this point) in terms of quality, value, and the level of knowledge and information they provide if you call them are …

https://www.soaringheart.com/ They are a member here and I have had several conversations with Jason here and he is also amazingly knowledgeable about wool. He works closely with Nathan at the Wool Gatherers Carding Mill and was also instrumental in its founding and they are almost like “sister” companies. His wool toppers are either 4" compressed to 2" or @6" compressed to 4" and are very well constructed. To say he is passionate about wool and good construction (such as cross layering) would be an understatement and carefully selects the breed of wool which he uses to fine tune his toppers. Also high quality products.

https://www.surroundewe.com/ Wool Bed Company. They use high wool densities, have more wool in the center of the pad (which supports the most weight), tuft the wool to pre-compress it and keep it lofted, and have an exchange program that allows customers to replace their topper at half price if their needs change or they wish to renew their topper when the wool has compressed (probably in the 4-6 year range but this will depend of course on useage and maintenance). They are very helpful and knowledgeable about their product and will give you a clear sense of the benefits of using them. Unlike many wool toppers … these can provide pressure relief over a larger area or even over the whole body because of their pre-compression and the way they are tufted and manufactured. They make toppers that have 14, 20, and 25 lbs of wool (queen size)

http://www.woolenmill.com/ St. Peter Woolen Mill. They are a manufacturer that is over 100 years old and is in it’s 4th generation of manufacturing high quality wool products. They use the highest quality wool and cotton and pay attention to the fine details like the micron size of the wool and the length and coil of the wool fiber to get the resilience, performance, and resiliency that is consistent. They also use higher densities of wool filling which is tufted to maintain the loft and offer their customer the chance to re-card their wool and have it re-covered to save money when it comes time to replace it. While wool will initially compress … once it is compressed it will remains resilient without further compression and the main reason to replace the topper would be for aesthetic reasons and to regain the original loft and freshness of the wool. This would typically be in 5-7 years. They are another high quality and value option that provides great information about their products if you take the time to call them. The recommended protection is a stretch knit cotton protector which will protect the topper from body oils and dirt without interfering with the breathability and performance of the wool. like other wool mattress pads, they can be carefully washed by hand but this will reduce the loft of the wool. They make mattress pads/toppers that use 6 3/4 or 10 1/8 lbs of wool (queen)

https://www.thewoolenmill.com/ Frankenmuth Woolen Mill. This woolen mill has been in operation for almost a century but doesn’t show up easily on google searches. Along with many other wool products and wool mill services, they make a mattress pad/topper that uses 6 lbs of wool and is batted and hand tied to help maintain loft and wool shifting and covered with high quality muslin. Like all good quality wool toppers/pads … they will last for a long time (5-10 years or more was their estimate of “normal”) and when it’s time to replace it they offer the ability to send in your old one in and have it re-carded and re-covered. They are also a distributor for SnugFleece. They make a mattress pad/topper with 6 lbs of wool but can also make custom orders.

https://www.sleepandbeyond.com/ Manufacturer that makes a mattress pad/topper produced in the Kyrgyz republic in central Asia using locally raised Merino wool and quilted in an organic cotton jacquard. They sell their products direct but their retailers generally have a better price than is listed on their website (a fairly common practice for manufacturers who also sell through retail outlets). Good quality and value although they only make one model. They use 8 lbs of wool (queen size). NOTE: they have now added some new products that use Shropshire wool … see post #20 here.

https://shepherdsdream.com/ They own and run the Woolgatherer Carding Mill which produces the Ecowool you will see in many wool products. I talked at length with Sarah (Eliana the founders daughter) and she is a wealth of information. Even so … her husband Nathan is considered the “expert” and is an amazing resource. The wool is medium density which would be a little courser than the fine Merino but more resilient and more suitable for a wool topper. They have a 3 stage cleaner which removes all the organic residue and it’s not carbonized. High quality products. They make a 1.5" and a 3" topper.

https://www.sugarloafwool.com/ A woolen mill in Hall, MT that also buys wool from local farmers and makes a range of wool products including wool mattress pads with either 2 or 3 bats of wool (typically about 2.5" thick") woolen pillows and blankets. they don’t use any harsh chemicals to scour their wool. They are also washable following the care instructions (and of course they will also benefit from putting them out inthe sun) and they said their mattress pads would typically last 10 years or longer. Also knowledgeable about wool in general and they will also recard wool and supply other raw wool materials as well.

http://www.cottoncloudfutons.com/ They own their own woolen mill and use eco-valley wool that is raised in the pacific northwest on farms that use organic farming methods. They have their own brand called [url=https://www.facebook.com/Sleepy-Sheep-Organics-222986217719714/[/url] and make wool toppers, mattress pads, and custom orders along with their other products using cotton and wellspring PET fiber. I talked with Bronwyn and they are also very knowledgeable about wool and the products they make and will provide good information about their products on the phone. They can also custom manufacture.

https://www.cozypure.com/ They are a member of this site and Cheryl the owner is another one who is passionate about natural and organic products and green manufacturing (they produce all their own power from solar, geothermal, and wind) making sure that every component they use is the highest quality and “purity” right down to the thread. They make a 1.5" and a 3" wool topper and have some good and informative videos on their site about the benefits of many of their products.

https://www.holylamborganics.com/mattress_tops.html#anchor200 They also make some very high quality wool toppers that use eco wool from The Wool Gatherer carding mill. They have two wool batting toppers (about 9.3 lbs and 14 lbs of wool in a queen) and a very nice wool fleece topper for those who prefer the softness and “feel” of fleece.

http://www.snugfleece.com/ . Their product is different from the others because it is a wool fleece or pile which is not pre-compressed and reacts and feels differently from a pre-compressed wool batting topper. While it contains high densities of wool, because the wool is not pre-compressed and is layered with vertical rather than horizontal fiber alignment, it will compress and matt down more with weight when you sleep on it. You also have direct access to the wool and it can be re-fluffed with “finger massage” or with a stiff brush when you change the bedding. It is softer than a pre-compressed wool topper but not as resilient or supportive in the “gaps” of the body so offers more of a localized pressure relief for pressure points and a different “feel” and less “full body” or “wider area” pressure relief of a pre-compressed wool topper. They also have a long lifetime of a decade or more. The less you wash it or “mess” with it (refresh it in the sun) the longer it will last. Many people use these for a decade or longer. If a protector is used with these for the sake of waterproofing (wool is already water resistant and it is not recommended) it is recommended under the topper rather than over it. The polyester backed versions would be better for use where spills or accidents are likely and the cotton backed versions are recommended for adult use where the moisture released from sleeping is the only liquid that is likely to be encountered. Their cotton backed toppers (original and SnugFleece II) are 1.5 to to 1.75" pile height and 19.9 lbs or 13.9 lbs of wool (queen) and can be can be dry cleaned, vacuumed, and spot cleaned. The Snugsoft line uses a polyester backing and can be washed. They range from 1" to 1.5" pile height and from 9.25 lbs to 15 lbs of wool (queen).

Some additional manufacturers that also make wool mattress pads or toppers that I haven’t had the chance to talk with in as much detail include …

https://www.vivetique.com/ Arcadia, CA. These are sold through retailers across the country. The trademarked name for their wool is Pure Grow wool.

http://casariranch.com/ Valley Ford, CA

Courtney Woolen Mill Appleton, WI

https://www.purerest.com/ Organic-Sheets-Pads-Toppers-Blankets-Comforters San Diego, CA. Also sold through many online stores.

http://dashingstarfarm.com/products.html Millerton, NY

https://www.cuddleewe.com/ national, online

http://www.lismoresheepfarmwoolshop.com/wool.htm River John, NS. Canada

Wool Bedding | Wool mattress Topper & Pad | Custom Woolen Mills Carstairs, AB. Canada

Of course the choice between these high quality/value options would be based on personal preference and on the “details” that make a difference for each person but they are all high quality and good value IMO. I would highly recommend a conversation with each manufacturer of each to get a sense of the differences between them. Some of these are factory direct and some are sold through retailers so you may need to search for the best value in some cases.

A few comments about Natura which you also mentioned …

http://www.naturaworld.com/products/product_types/bedding/ There is a Naturawool line, a wool fleece line, A Smartwool product (which is a New Zealand Merino wool that has been treated to make them washable, itch free and resistant to shrinking) and an organic wool line. Their wool pads/toppers are mostly either 4.17 lbs or 8.33 lbs of wool (queen) however they also have a mattress pad that is 1.4 lbs and an organic topper version that uses 16.67 lbs. and their fleece line doesn’t list the amount of wool. These are typically more costly than equivalent products in the earlier list but the outlet you mentioned http://www.organicsleepproducts.com/wool-filled-toppers.html carries seconds at great prices.

I also appreciate the pricing research you have done and along with the retail outlets you have mentioned (which I like) there is one more I’ll add to the list for now because of the high quality of information they have on their site, the variety of products they carry, their knowledge of and personal testing they do on their products, and their prices. I was impressed when I talked with them on the phone …

There are many more options as well or course and as I have the chance to talk with them and/or come to know more about some of them I will add my comments to the list here for those that have comparable quality and value to these “reference points”. In addition to these … post #32 here along with post #10 here also have some additional sources for wool toppers and/or good information and may also be helpful

If there are any others that any of the members come across it would be great to list them here as well.

Thanks again for all your research and feedback :slight_smile:

Phoenix

PS: There is more feedback about some of these further in the thread and in particular in post #29 here.

Hi Phoenix,

I am just in the search of a new mattress and was looking at pros and cons of the big name brand like Kingsdown and Simmons. Now that you mention it is best to buy it from local manufacturer, would you know if there is any in Toronto area?

Hi sszeto,

Before you consider a major brand mattress I would make sure you read post #1 here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible decision.

Some of the better options I’m aware of in the Toronto area are listed in post #1 here. There are also links to some of the forum thread from other members in the Toronto area in post #2 here which may also be helpful.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix –
Thanks for this really helpful post. I’m trying to add a pressure point relieving layer to an otherwise good and supportive bed. For this purpose, do you think more wool density is better than less, as a general rule? The sources you mention all look really good, but frankly I’m confused by the choices and not sure how thick I need the topper to be. Thanks for any further guidance.
Martin

Hi mjs02,

More wool and thicker toppers will be softer and relieve pressure points more effectively but neither will be as pressure relieving as a foam material and wool will also pack down over time and become firmer than when it is new. There are also different types of wool (finer and courser) and different toppers will also use different densities of wool which is more or less compressed so it’s usually better to talk with the manufacturer of each topper you are considering to get the best possible suggestion for their range of wool toppers. There really isn’t any “better or worse” or general rules … only preferences. Thicker wool toppers will generally compress and impress more over time.

Foam (polyfoam, memory foam, or latex foam) is generally more pressure relieving overall because it supports and distributes body weight over a larger surface area while wool will act more as a padding under the pressure points but will be less supportive under the more recessed areas of the body. They also have a very different “feel” and wool is also much more breathable and temperature regulating than any foam. Wool is as much of a “feel” material as a pressure relieving material. Wool will also reduce the ability of the any softer layers underneath it to contour to your body shape which can add to the firmness of your mattress and it can also reduce the heat that reaches any memory foam in your mattress which can make the memory foam firmer. Thicker layers of wool will have more effect on how much you feel the layers below the topper (you will feel more of the wool and less of the layers underneath it) than thinner layers so it also depends on how much of the feel of the underlying layers you want to “come through”. If you aren’t familiar with wool toppers in your own experience then it’s generally best to have some more detailed conversations with some of the manufacturers listed to gain some clarity about the thickness of the wool toppers they offer that you would prefer.

Phoenix

I am also looking for a wool topper. but I sometimes think about cotton.
My goal is to find the coolest topper.
can anyone help me to know which one is cooler ?

another thing is I checked all of those links
but why you didn’t consider this one:

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: Best Natural Wool Mattress Topper | 2 Inch Natural Wool Bed Topper Soft | The Futon Shop

when I compare its weight I found it is the heaviest wool topper.
they use 30 lbs wool in their queen size mattress topper .

Phoenix why you didnt mention this site ? They are not a good producer ?

Is it a good choice ?

Hi plusforce,

There are may factors involved with temperature regulation but in most cases and designs wool will be a better temperature regulator than cotton because it stores moisture inside the fiber and away from the surface. Keep in mind that wool regulates temperature in both directions.

There are thousands of products that aren’t mentioned on the site that I haven’t come across in my research and don’t know about. That’s why I suggested that other members add their own discoveries to the thread (as you have done) :slight_smile:

It appears to be good quality and value from a materials point of view but of course only you can decide if it’s a good choice for you based on your conversations with them and others you may also be considering, your confidence that it will work well for you, and on the specifics of their return policy if it doesn’t work as well as you hope.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix :slight_smile:

I thought you had a specific reason that you didn’t mention that site.
In fact that site is my first choice just because it is the heaviest 3 inches topper.
They don’t have return policy !
I just received some real pictures of their 3 inches topper and they seem fine !

Now I have a firm Otis futon mattress
I like it, every thing is fine with that else temperature.
but I still don’t know a 3 inches topper can be enough for this purpose or not.
that’s why I decided to get the heaviest one. I think more wool = more temperature regulation.

Hi plusforce,

Just keep in mind that wool will compress over time and become firmer and that it’s not generally as soft as softer foam materials.

If you decide to purchase it I’m certainly looking forward to your feedback about how it works for you.

Phoenix

Oh
so let me describe what I have done before you wait for my review
I already have bought this one from sears.com
https://www.sears.com/quilted-wool-mattress-topper/p-096VA54050712P?prdNo=1

it is an Holy lamb product
but it is just 9.3 lbs
After I bought this I realized that maybe it is too thin .
then I searched and found that heavy one from futonshop.com

So if I see Holy lamb topper is not enough for temperature regulating I will return it and buy
that heavy one.

hopefully this week I will receive 9.3 lbs holly lamb wool topper

Hi plusforce,

The Holy lamb will certainly be fine for temperature regulation and is a high quality product.

The most important question and the main difference between them will be how they will “feel” and perform on top of your futon. Thicker wool layers will generally feel softer (although this can also depend on the specifics of the construction) but I doubt that you would see much if any difference between them in terms of temperature regulation.

Phoenix

You are right , Holy Lamb products are high quality.
But they put 9.3 lbs in a queen topper.

Futonshop claims that their 3 inches topper contains 30 lbs of wool !

I can not stop thinking about with just 100$ more I can get more than 3 times wool in a topper !

but maybe I am wrong and brand is more important than wight of wool !
I have to decide between 9.3 lbs wool and 30 lbs wool .
Is really 9.3 lbs wool enough to disconnect heat conductivity between me and my polyester mattress ?

I really do not know what to do !

Hi plusforce,

If the materials or type of wool in each topper is similar or the same then it would seem that in terms of material cost the futonshop would be better “value” although the method of manufacturing and the type of wool used would also be a factor. The material value of a product is only part of the value of your purchase though because no matter what the quality or material value of a topper if it doesn’t work well for you in terms of its comfort and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then it would have little value to you no matter what the cost or “value” of the materials may be.

Since you have already made the purchase anyway then I would suggest trying the wool topper you have already purchased and then decide from there based on your own experience.

Even much less wool than 9.3 lbs is plenty to have a significant effect on temperature regulation.

Phoenix

Hi
I am not sure I can write my experience about Holy Lamb wool topper here or not
But for me it does not work at all. I feel hot on it. Even hotter than my polyester mattress.
I think because my body go down through the mattress (it is so soft) the contact surface becomes more
and I feel hot. I am not saying wool is hot. I just can say for me it is hot.
We have a Cotton couch . When I sleep on it I don’t feel hot. in fact it is the coldest thing
that I have tried up to now. It was the first time I tried wool. but I think wool is not good for me.

for all cotton futon I found these two websites
do you know some better sellers ?
http://www.buygreengoods.com/bedding/chemical-free-mattress.html
https://www.downtoearthhome.com/Products/?category=mattresses&product=futons

Hi plusforce,

Member feedback is always welcome and appreciated on the forum … even if it’s different from the norm :slight_smile:

I’m not sure if this is applicable to your situation or not but in some cases some types of mattress protectors (such as the thin waterproof membrane type) or some sheets or other bedding over the wool can reduce the ability of the wool to regulate temperature.

I don’t normally include futons in my research or forum lists but the same “rules” apply as mattresses which is that a futon is as good as the quality of the materials that it’s made of. Post #2 here has a list of a few futon options but of course it’s not complete.

Phoenix