Sleep deprived. Research overload. Please help. Latex.

Hi,

I am in the market for a new bed and was originally going to buy the Dreamfoam 13" Gel Bed as it was the closest thing to the Cloud Supreme/Luxe at a reasonable price.

Then, after days and days of research and going to try out mattresses, I came to the conclusion that latex may be better for my body and last longer than any memory foam mattress.

That said, now I am having difficulty selecting a latex mattress online. My budget has ballooned to up to 2400 (from less than 1000) and I am considering either the FloBed, SleepEz or CozyPure.

I do not need customized support for each side or top/bottom customized support. What I do want is a soft, think Temper Supreme (non-breeze version) soft or Temper Luxe soft (breeze version). While I want soft, I do also want good support for my midsection and I want a mattress that is going to last a solid ten years.

RE: Latex types, advantages, disadvantages, etc. I have read it all. Dunlop vs Talalay vs blends, etc. Some say this, some say that. Flobeds feel that all natural Talalay is the way to go all the way through the base…Botanical Bliss and others use a Dunlop core for support. CozyPure uses a great natural Dunlop? Etc.

Bottom line is I am tired of reading and calling and talking to people. Each manufacturer is going to espouse their own ideals. What I want is a long lasting latex mattress, I want to order it like yesterday and I want it to be soft (what IDL should I be considering?) but with solid support and durable. And please, no you are already choosing between “good” and “good”. Just help me decide!

I noticed that on this site people ask a million questions and eventually buy a bed, but few actually ever return to let us know how the bed was. So it is difficult to tell which latex brands consumers prefer.

Please help.

And I am of course willing to consider brands other than Flobeds, SleepEZ and Cozypure. I am willing to consider any brand really. I simply want a quality mattress that will last a long time.

Mattresses I am now considering:

Flobeds - Original Deluxe
2" convoluted
3 3" talalay
2299

SleepEz Organic Queen
4 3" talalay or dunlop
2300

CozyPure
No longer considering? Pure Performance Cush around 2300 and you only get 7.5 inches of total latex vs 10+ with competitors?

PlushBeds
12" Natty Bliss
3" talalay
3" talalay
6" botanical vulcanized? From star trek?
$2299

Thoughts? Anyone? Bueller?

I too have many of your same concerns…My shopping thread may help → Here

Hi NeedABed,

I, too, searched for a latex bed in a reasonable price range. I finally settled on Arizona Premium Mattress Co., one of the members of this site. I ordered an all natural Talalay mattress in king size for a very reasonable price. It should be delivered in the next week. I will be reporting extensively on my new bed when I’ve had it and used it for a little while. Have you checked out their website? They have many of the configurations you mentioned and all at good prices. They have some cool videos to watch too. I spent literally hours/days on their website! www.mattresses.net

gtwflorida

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) final choices are something that only you can decide based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. Just like ordering a good meal at a restaurant … you are the best judge about which of the preferences or options that each manufacturer provides are most attractive to you. You really are choosing between “good and good” and helping you reach that point where there are no “bad” options is the goal of the site but past that it’s really up to you.

Post #21 here includes the members of this site that sell latex mattresses online.

I would keep in mind that a latex mattress will be nothing like any of the Tempurpedic mattresses and it may be a good idea to test some latex mattresses locally to make sure that latex really is your preference over memory foam (you can read more about how they compare in post #2 here). Both can make good choices as long as they use good quality materials. If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know of any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area so you can have some reference points based on personal experience that may help you decide.

Phoenix

Thanks, all.

Phoenix, my zip is 11772.

I have tried some hybrid mattresses with latex at the top and it was a nice feel. I didn’t necessarily love the initial feel as much as I like the memory foam, but I think the responsiveness, well-distributed support and from what I have read, better durability (less likely to develop “sag”) are very big selling points for me. I am not necessarily as fussy about a mattress feeling perfect. In general, I just need a bed on the softer side (I have slept plush top the last ten plus years). Also, the nice and soft memory foam also tends to have “fall off” sides. Even the tempers I tested.

I really hope my assumptions about latex are correct.

Do additional layers of latex (with soft layers near the top), i.e. depth of latex in inches, matter? Some mattresses have 3 or 4 latex layers and I am guessing that may help with durability and softness (all other things equal).

I am leaning towards the flobed because you get 3 3" natural talalay PLUS 2" inches of the conv. latex sewn into the top. I am hoping the latex sewn into the top will add additional “cushyness”. I am not sure what else I should be considering or whether I should get soft (top), firm (middle), extra firm (bottom) or what else needs to be considered. There appears to be a few latex players who sell good latex, all 10+ worth of just latex and in the 2200-2400 range. Dunlop bottom vs firm latalay, etc. - I have no idea, even after reading 100 pages on the subject matter.

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of that are reasonably close to you are listed in post #4 here.

If your assumption is about durability then in general it’s the most durable of all the foam materials although other high quality foams can also make a durable choice.

Differences in the number of layers or the thickness or firmness of the layers are part of how each manufacturer esigns a unique mattress that has a different feel and performance compared to others and that can be a better (or worse) match for different people in terms of PPP. Thicker mattresses can have more of a “range” from soft to firm so people in higher weight ranges may do better with a slightly thicker mattress that can adapt to their body type a little better without “bottoming out” than those who are lighter. With customized mattresses … more layers also provides more options to either re-arrange or exchange the layers to “fine tune” it to the specific needs and preferences of each person. There is more about thicker layers or mattresses in post #14 here and more about having more layer options vs less in post #2 here.

Adding softness or “cush” and relieving pressure is the main reason for having a softer layer on top of a mattress and convoluted latex is softer than the same type and ILD of latex that is made in a solid layer. You can read a little more about their convoluted layer in post #2 here (in reply to question #4) and in post #12 here. It isn’t sewn into the mattress cover though and is an individual layer.

You certainly have some good choices and sometimes the differences in “value” may be so insignificant for you that it may come down to what I mentioned in step 5 of the tutorial post …

While narrowing them down to one can be difficult … in the end you may need to just close your eyes, grit your teeth … and pull the trigger based on smaller differences that are important to you. At this point you really can’t make a mistake and the one you choose may just have some fine detail that tips the balance.

Phoenix

You know the quality of it. Now just lay down on one and say this is it because it feels good. It’s now that simple. I bought a Talalay pure high density hybrid with inter spring. Still early for any comment but really you will make the same decision as I did. Just do your best. Good luck

Phoenix,

Your recommendation to “test” a bed is a good one. I was having a very hard time finding a pure latex bed to test and was thinking that based on your posts, I may test a pure latex bed, order something similar online and end up getting something subjectively different.

Anyhoo, I have found a latex store here in LI that sells all sorts of yummy mattresses (including latex):

After reading about 500 more posts on this site and visiting about 15 more external websites, I have come to the conclusion that it may be best to simply shell out a little more for the pure latex bliss beautiful (queen), if I can get it for around 2800. (Or even the nutrition).

Can you send me some forum links as to why I should or shouldn’t consider pure latex bliss?

The few people on this site who have one really do seem to love it (some may think it’s too soft- but soft is “good” in my book). Of the few people who do review their beds, I have found some unhappy with flo, sleepez and brooklyn bedding (sometimes because they ended up with the what they feel is the wrong firmness level). I guess its tough because these beds can’t truly be “tested” and if you check out a pure latex bliss and love it, based on what you have written, I can’t simply order a flobed with an equal amount of latex and expect the same thing because there are many variables to the equation. Correct?

I really don’t think I need a customized bed. But when I awake tomorrow after a good nights sleep, I am sure I may change my mind for the 50th time.

It is somewhat of a difficult task to just bite the bullet and “just order” because the fact is you cannot test out a lot of the beds sold by some of these online retailers. And as others have pointed out, returning the entire bed is not feasible and swapping out layers does not always result in a satisfied customer.

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

They would certainly be a good place to test some latex mattresses that were on the softer side. A forum search on sleepworksny (you can just click this) will bring up some comments and feedback about them as well.

There are probably hundreds of posts in the forum about Pure Latex Bliss and dozens about the Beautiful (a forum search on PLB Beautiful as an example will bring up over 200 posts).

The reasons I would consider the PLB mattresses is that they all use good quality materials (talalay latex) and along with their topper options they have a wide range of “sleeping systems” to choose from that would “fit” a large percentage of people (who liked latex). They are generally “better than average” value compared to many mainstream mattresses but it can pay to do some comparison shopping because even though advertised prices are “controlled” by PLB … there is a range of prices between retailers across the country. Some of the retailers that you can use as a pricing reference (or for price matching) are listed in post #32 here.

Outside of any differences in pricing between the Beautiful and similar mattresses that use 12" of latex or have options for exchanging layers … the main “caution” about the Beautiful is that it is very soft and there have been some people on the forum who fell in love with it’s “feel” in the showroom and then discovered it was too soft for them for good alignment and they needed to exchange it so I would make sure you do some careful and objective testing for PPP.

A local purchase vs an online purchase and the benefits of each are part of each person’s personal value equation and there are many people who are much more comfortable testing and buying a mattress locally vs an online purchase even if the cost is higher.

There are several ways that one mattress may “match” another (see post #9 here) but the only way that you would have an “exact” or at least very close match is if both mattresses used the same materials in the same thickness and firmness level and the same cover and it would be rare that two mattresses would match this closely. Other than that … you would find that some mattresses would be equivalent to each other in one way or another (particularly if the top 5" or 6" and the cover were very similar in terms of the type of materials, layer thickness, and cover) but different people may have different perceptions of how closely they would “match” because of different body types and sleeping positions. This is where subjective perceptions about smaller differences in a mattress come into play. The top 2 layers of the Beautiful are both 3" thick so it would be a little more common to find a mattress that had two top layers in the same thickness that were in a similar ILD range which for some people would feel quite similar while for others would not be as close.

This again varies with each person’s “risk tolerance” and there are a high percentage of customers that are satisfied with their first choice or with a single layer exchange but there are always a smaller percentage who find it more difficult to find the best layering for them. Several of the online manufacturers on the list have a very low cost or no cost return policy as well that allows their customers to return the mattress so with these manufacturers it’s certainly feasible to return the mattress as a “last resort” if there are no other options remaining.

Phoenix

Thanks for the input, Phoenix.

Let’s see what happens at Sleepworks. It’s ok if they aren’t super knowledgeable about the mattresses as I’ll do the research myself.

Thanks,
Tired

So I went to Sleepworks…

I don’t like the Pure Latex Bliss. It is too “springy” and when you move around I feel you are definitely moving around completely on top of the mattress. Sure, the beautiful is soft, but still a little springy (like a trampoline). They also had it (the beautiful) for 4100, which is like 1400 more than I saw online. They had almost the entire line of pure bliss mattresses . Oddly enough, he said 90% of his customers who choose anything softer than the Beautiful end up getting a talalay topper as well. That is really neither here nor there as I have eliminated PLB from contention.

He also had a Natural Elegance “Paradise”. It was a pillow-top, 4 inches of what I believe to be blended latex, but super soft and almost “foamy” in its qualities. The base layers included a thin layer of Dunlop and a 5 or six inch soy based foam core. The mattress was “organic” - not that it matters to me. The price is 2599.99 for just the mattress and $2920 including tax/delivery.

They had a shipment coming in and he was willing to do $2500/out the door and delivered and I was about to do it to have this entire mattress fiasco be over with, until I read your comments on King Coil and their desire to keep their materials secretive. The bed had awesome edge support, had a bamboo cover, was organic, seemed super solid, was nice and plush without being “too sinky” or “too springy”. Now I realize this bed may have “weak links”, but how the heck am I supposed to find a non weak-link imitation of this bed online? If I knew of an imitation that used the same stuff and had no weak links, I would order it this second as I think this bed is less likely to have sagging issues in the future (as compared to memory foam).

They also had an Aireloom Belmont Plush with the cooling top. This bed was 2699.99. This bed also had AWESOME edge support, you sank in but it felt A LOT more supportive than the Temper models and it definitely felt luxurious. All that said, you didn’t “feel” the quality of the top foam anymore than any other major brand and certainly sagging could be an issue within a few years. But let me tell you, the bed felt freaking awesome, at least for the couple of minutes I relaxed in it.

I feel like I am back to square one. What I do think I have realized is I don’t want 100% latex, because it is too springy. Then again, I don’t know what online brands might have a latex that is blended or altered enough so it isn’t springy. I do still like high quality memory foam - so long as it has great support and the bed doesn’t swallow you. I also NEED edge support. Beds without edge support become “smaller” and for two people (on the occasion I actually have a female overnight guest :open_mouth: ) and a dog, you need all of the surface area on a queen.

I don’t know Phoenix, at this point I am about to go to the sale at Macy’s and call it a day. I’m so tired of calling people, doing research, trying mattresses and I really just want to get a bed. But I don’t want to be in the position of sending bed layers back and forth in the mail because I didn’t get the bed I wanted in the first place. All that said, I don’t think I’m that picky (comparatively speaking, there appears to be even more picky bed enthusiasts on this site) with my requirements.

Thanks,
Lost

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

I would ask the retailer for the specs of the mattress. Many manufacturers will disclose their “better” materials and the latex would be good quality. They will also usually disclose the types of materials in the layers (even if they don’t disclose the quality) and if the top layers are all latex and don’t include more than “about an inch or so” of lower density or unknown polyfoam or memory foam then there would be no obvious weak links.

I would also want to know the density of the base layer but this would be a less significant factor in durability.

The first step would be to get a list of all the layers (which the manufacturer should be able to provide) and then look at it and see if there are any layers where knowing the density would be important. If you list the layers that they can provide I’d be happy to make more comments about it.

The next step to “approximate” this mattress (if you decide not to purchase it) with an online purchase would be to find out the more detailed specifics of what was in it and then you would have a reference point that you could use to choose an online mattress that was close to the same design as possible (in terms of the type, thickness, and firmness of the layers) although there may still be some differences between them that you could feel depending on how closely the designs matched each other. this is the part that may be more difficult. Most of the “initial feel” of a mattress would be in the top 5" or 6" or so and this would be the part that I would focus on “matching” most closely. If you have the option of exchanging layers then if your initial online choice wasn’t ideal for you then you could use your sleeping experience as a reference point and choose a softer or firmer comfort layer that would be a better match for you in terms of PPP.

This is a common reaction to the Aireloom mattresses but again … without knowing the quality of the comfort layers especially then you would have no assurance that what you “feel” in a showroom will last for long enough to justify the price and the risk of premature foam softening or breakdown would be higher and your feelings about the mattress could be very different in a few years.

This at least has eliminated one of your options and you have identified some of the criteria that are important to you and you also know that you tend to prefer memory foam so all of these are important parts of the process IMO so I would say that you are well ahead of step 1. If you can identify the materials in the layers of the mattresses that you liked then you would have good reference points for the type of materials and mattresses you tend to prefer.

If you test mattresses where you know ahead of time that you won’t be able to find out what is inside them then even if you like it your testing would have little value to you as far as using it as a reference point and may become quite frustrating unless you are willing to buy the specific mattress you tested and are OK with a higher risk purchase in terms of durability and that you can’t make any meaningful comparisons with other mattresses in terms of quality or value.

You certainly wouldn’t be the first one to buy a mattress out of pure frustration rather than based on meaningful information or comparisons but IMO a mattress is one of the most important purchases you can make and will have a bigger effect on the quality of your sleep and your overall well being both waking and sleeping over the next decade or so than almost anything else you can buy. If you make a blind purchase out of frustration then I would ask yourself whether you are OK with repeating all of this in two or three years or so down the road.

I personally believe that the “risk” of an online purchase is much less than the risk of a “blind” purchase if there are no better local options available to you because at least you would normally still have good options available after the purchase but of course each person can be very different in terms of the type of purchase they are most comfortable with.

Phoenix

I called King Coil and as an FYI, according to the lady on the phone, Natural Elegance is not a King Coil mattress (Dr. Breus is their equivalent?).

Natural Elegance is however manufactured in one of the same factories that makes King Coil mattresses out in CT. She didn’t know any more info. as to how to contact Natural Elegance.

Shady.

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

This is “somewhat correct” but not completely correct.

The Natural Elegance trademark is owned by Blue Bell Mattress Co which is a Comfort Solutions licensee. It’s a “de facto” Comfort Solutions brand just like King Koil even though it’s technically a Blue Bell brand.

You can read a little more in this thread.

Some contact information is here or on the last page of the warranty information here.

Your best odds of finding out the layering may be by having the retailer talk to their rep.

Phoenix

Phoenix/Bed Enthusiasts,

Has anyone on the site purchased the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous? I know Phoenix, you don’t necessarily prefer the Bayer form, but based on the densities, the little bit of latex and some convoluted foam - I am thinking this mattress is going to be “soft”, “supportive” and somewhat “durable”.

Thanks,
Ready to buy something site unseen

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

They would be able to give you a better description of objective and subjective properties of their mattress but the Rendezvous uses good quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress. In terms of quality, the Bayer foam would compare to others of the same density. In terms of “feel” this is much more subjective and would depend on the more detailed specifics of the mattress and the perceptions of the person sleeping on it.

As you know I think highly of Rocky Mountain Mattress and they are one of the members here which means that I believe they compete well with the best in the country in terms of their quality, value, and service.

The Rendezvous would be a little different from many other memory foam mattresses because it has a quilting layer of good quality polyfoam over the memory foam which would provide a little more resilient sleeping surface than sleeping directly on the memory foam itself and the latex underneath would also add to the resilience of the comfort layers to some degree as well. You can read more about a quilting layer over memory foam in post #2 here.

If the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP it would certainly make a good choice.

Phoenix

Alright, Phoenix. About to the pull the trigger on a RMM mattress. Just talked to Lane over there and here is what I am thinking:

2" of Bayer Softcel Supersoft Foam quilted into top: 12-14 ild
2 2" (=4") of five pound Bayer Softcel Memory Foam:12-14 ild
1" of Firm Talalay Latex: 32 ild
1.5" of Bayer Ultracel Convoluted Foam - 1.8 (2.4 also available): ild 28
5.5" of Bayer Ultracel Extra Firm Polyurethane for Lumbar Support 2.4 (1.8 also available): 36 ild
.
Based on the materials alone, this combination would suggest a quality mattress. I just have to hope it ends up being “plush soft” like a pillowtop, slightly mushy like a memory foam and supportive enough for my body like a very well made coil mattress.

Any suggestions on the bottom two layers or anything else? I went 1.8 on the 1.5 inch and 2.4 on the very bottom. But given the thickness and low ild of the top layers, I think this mattress should still have plenty of softness to it.

Almost there.
Sleep deprived

Hi NeedABedASAP14,

It would certainly make a good choice in terms of the quality of the materials and “in theory” it would also seem to be a good match for your criteria (enough softness in the comfort layers and good support below them and a little more resilience for the sleeping surface than sleeping directly on the memory foam) but “theory at a distance” is never as accurate as your own personal sleeping experience so “best judgement” in combination with the more detailed conversations you have had with the manufacturer is always the best way to make the choice that has the highest odds of success.

Without specific reference points … my “best suggestion” is to go with the “best effort” suggestions of the manufacturer. If the 2.4 lb polyfoam is the same ILD it would likely have a higher compression modulus (gets firmer faster with deeper compression) and be a little bit more “supportive” but you are looking at fine details that aren’t really possible to predict with certainty in terms of how “theory” will translate into your real life sleeping experience.

Phoenix