I know that firmness is subjective and difficult to qualify, but I’m looking for a GENERAL idea of how a particular mattress might feel. And though it seems clear that most do not like looking at ILD ratings, I will mention a few for a specific mattress.
The SOL 9" soft mattress appears to have a 6" core rated at ILD 24, which appears to be borderline between soft and medium depending upon who you ask. The top 2" is rated at a soft 20 ILD. If the above info is correct, do you think that the AVERAGE Joe would find this Dunlop mattress soft enough to provide excellent pressure point relieving qualities while being supportive enough for back sleeping when required?
I’m typically a side sleeper, but due to a recent disk hirneation (maybe more) I’m finding it necessary to spend time on my back when pain is at its highest. I know that bridging both worlds is difficult, but I’m hoping to get a few solid opinions.
If the ILD info is correct, I believe it was taken at 25% load.
And last question: if their soft version, which most reviewers claim to be soft (but firmer than expected) was purchased, should I expect a shorter life span VS a medium firmness?
Lots of loaded questions, this I know. I’m trying desperately to finalize my fitness to order this weekend.
Thank you! Desperate times from sleepless 6’1" 170 LB male.
ILDs are discussed quite frequently here on the forum, and while knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important, I’ll always caution that unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components and their specs and different layering combinations and mattress designs and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would generally be a very small percentage of people), I would tend to avoid using complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you may not fully understand or only based on specs for single layers or components that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe they are then the most common outcome is “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”.
When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance I’ll recommend is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
I don’t know that those are the correct specifications for the Soft model, but regardless, and for reasons I think you’re already aware, there’s no “average Joe” interpretation or what someone might find as having “excellent pressure point relieving qualities”, as there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). A detailed phone call with Sleep on Latex would be your best course of action.
I’m sorry to hear about your disc issues. You’ll certainly want to bring this up when you phone Sleep on Latex. With certain disc issues, you may wish to defer to something offer a bit of a firmer deep support to help promote a more “neutral” alignment.
ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it’s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5").
I would expect a good comfort life out of either option, but it is logical that a softer latex will have slightly less durability than a firmer latex. Of course, there are many factors involved in durability. And I wouldn’t put any credence into what other’s “expectations” were of a plushness of a mattress, as it has no bearing on the overall comfort of a mattress or appropriateness for yourself, but only speaks to their unfamiliarity with a certain product.
“Information overload” and “paralysis by analysis” ~ no truer words have ever been spoken. It’s like researching creation VS evolution, you walk away with more questions than answers.
I have spoken to SOL in depth via email and the general OPINION is a 9" medium that clocks in as such ~
2" 20 ILD Dunlop top confort layer
6" 34 ILD Dunlop support layer
They went on to say that a soft 9" would be a better choice for a side sleeper of my size (6’1" & 170), with a medium 9" proving to be a better solution for a combo sleeper that spends time on their side and occasionally their back. And here’s a comment that seems to make sense to a novice: “It’s easier to make a firm mattress soft, than a soft mattress firm. Buy the 9” medium and dial it in with a latex topper as needed." I could take a cynical view and look at this comment as a means of selling me a mattress and a topper, but knowing how difficult it is to create the perfect mattress that provides comfort, support and proper spine alignment, the idea of “dialing in” a mattress after test driving seems to make sense.
With the above said, there’s something else that jumps out at me: who is to say that my back condition won’t worsen over the years regardless of my mattress choice which necessitates a change in sleep habit? Requiring substantially more time on my back than side which would lean towards a firmer mattress. If I purchased a 9" medium with a topper to add addition comfort, I would have the option of removing said topper IF my condition changed for the worse.
Knowing that the SOL 2 layer mattress is progressive in nature, the comfort layer borrowing from the support layer (if I understand the progressive concept as you outlined in another post), selecting the right topper will add another layer of confusion not to mention (but did) expense. And what I cannot get my arms around is this: if I add a 1" or 2" latex topper to provide a small amount of additional pressure relieving support (when sleeping on my side), call it a soft (20 ILD) Dunlop topper to work in conjunction with the 2" soft (20 ILD) top layer of the mattress, wouldn’t I be negating the support needed when back rest is required? Dialed in for side sleep — YES — at the expense of losing support when resting on my back. I don’t see where it’s really possible to accommodate a combo sleeper. And to be be clear about this, the back rest I’m referring to will occur when I place my (to be purchased) adjustable bed in a zero gravity state. It’s my intention to remain a side sleeper, but I will spend enough time in a zero gravity position while napping, reading a book or watching TV, that I have to be cognizant of proper spine support in this position.
If I were to go with the 9" medium, the dialing in process will likely be two-fold: the addition of a latex topper and a quilted mattress protector made of natural materials. Cotton, wool or maybe feathered down, though not sure about the feathered down option since it seems like the reviews tend to be weak.
YEP, I’m talking out loud in hopes that the light bulb will be lit.
I truly enjoy your site and will likely donate a little something to your cause. Keep up the good work!
[quote]I have spoken to SOL in depth via email and the general OPINION is a 9" medium that clocks in as such 2" 20 ILD Dunlop top confort layer
6" 34 ILD Dunlop support layer[/quote]
Yes, those are the correct specifications for the SOL 9" medium latex.
With their experience with their products and how they perform for different somatotypes, BMIs and sleeping styles, what they said makes sense and I certainly would give strong consideration to their suggestions. And I understand the potential for “cynicism” about the potential to add an extra product to the mix with the topper suggestion down the road, but the statement about being easier to make a firm mattress soft than a soft mattress firm is indeed correct, and there have been many discussions about that actual topic here on the forum.
Only you can know your back condition and if it will worsen, but I normally advise to choose a mattress based upon your current conditions. However, you are correct that over time if you need firmer support due to a worsening condition, a component-style approach can be useful.
I think this is where you’re really driving yourself at full speed “down the rabbit hole” with worries about “ifs” and “whats” about combinations of specifications that unless you’re extremely versed in foam science and mattress engineering (which would be a very small percentage of the population), you’re only contributing to your own paralysis analysis.
At the risk of “feeding” into this (I do think you’re very interested in objectively analyzing things) , there is information about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”. Extra padding in the upper comfort layers will provide for a deeper “comfort cradle”, and too much of a more plush material can allow for a negative impact upon alignment. The two major functions of a mattress, alignment/support and comfort, are described in a bit more detail here). It is possible for a mattress to provide adequate support and comfort for both side and back sleeping positions, as evidenced by the millions of people who sleep successfully and comfortable in such a manner, but of course the key is finding what would work best for you. There is also more about how all of the layers of a mattress work together in post #7 here.
You can read my thoughts about buying a mattress/topper combination that you can’t test in person in post #2 here. As you’re already aware, it’s normally not something I would suggest either in terms of risk or quality/value unless there were no better options available to you, but I understand your thoughts in this particular situation.
There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to (there are links to posts about down toppers as well as natural fibers there) , which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.
Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you can’t test the combination in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would also make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the topper and any costs involved just in case a topper you choose also doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.
Great information within this post and via the links. Confusing, but a good read.
One last question (I think): Out of curiosity, I took a measurement of my hips and shoulders with my shoulders being ROUGHLY 3 to 4 inches wider than my hips (closer to 4 I think), this using a tailor’s measuring tape stretched around the widest point on my shoulders and hips. I’m guessing that my results are fairly normal for a US male? Anyway, knowing that SOL uses a progressive mattress design with a 2" comfort layer (20 ILD) and a 6" support layer (34 ILD) , this seems to imply that my shoulders will bottom out or begin to “barrow” from the core support layer before my hips which could potentially be a pain trigger IF the 34 ILD core support isn’t forgiving enough to accommodate my wider shoulders. So with that, will a medium/firm 34 ILD support layer have enough give – OR – more likely to “push back” and cause pain? And if the answer is likely discomfort and/or pain, would adding a 1 to 2 inch 20 ILD topper to accommodate the shoulders cause an issue at the hips (sinking down to far)?
I think the above question has less to do with any particular vendor and more about the general characteristics of Dunlop as it relates to the progressive borrowing between lays to create that Goldilocks combination. I’m guessing that a 34 ILD will not have enough “progressive give” which will result in the need for a topper when sleeping on my side. So if a topper is added, I have to hope that 1 to 2 inches of 20 ILD doesn’t lead to a hip “sink down” issue – substituting shoulder pain for lower back pain.
Sorry to be anal, but when I bite down on a topic, I’m like a dog with a bone, I will not left go till satisfied or exhausted. LOL I like talking about this subject, actually.
I appreciate your desire for knowledge B) , but you’re chasing for certainty and definitive answers in areas for which there are none, and you’re attempting to define comfort and predict how a mattress will feel based upon specifications and interactions that you may not completely understand (even the best mattress designers are often surprised at how particular combinations end of feeling). You’re making suppositions of comfort/support about products that you haven’t even tested, and for me to engage in hypotheticals based upon such suppositions about how a product might feel for you isn’t possible, constructive, nor helpful. However, you may be interested in the monozone properties of latex briefly outlined here.
In the end, only your own personal testing of a mattress will be able to tell if you are comfortable and if the product is suitable for your particular needs. The best advice I can provide is for you at this point is to actually try something similar to what you’re considering at a local retailer, or follow the advice of a manufacturer like SOL, and be sure to become familiar with any potential return/exchange policy before making a purchase just in case things don’t turn out as well as you had hoped.
I placed my order with SOL - the soft mattress. 2" ILD (4 LB density) comfort layer and a 6" 24 ILD (5.3 LB density) support layer. I really want to sleep on my side and will keep my fingers crossed that the core support layer will be firm enough when I need to be on my back.
Congratulations on your new Sleep on Latex mattress purchase! :cheer: You certainly chose something using good quality materials. I’m keeping my fingers crossed as well, and I hope you’ll be able to report back after some time spent on your new mattress and report on how you are adjusting to it.
I decided to return the mattress. That said, though, the mattress was very well made, especially the organic cotton and wool cover. SUPER soft to the touch and slept pleasently cool.
The mattress is definitely soft and conforming, but surprisingly supportive when laying on my back. If you are of average weight and height, the soft will be a decent choice if primarily a side sleeper. If heavy, I would consider a firmer mattress.
So why did I return the mattress? It was a latex thing — as much as I wanted to love latex, it just wasn’t for me.
I’ll say this about SOL — THEY ABSOLUTELY ROCK! Fantastic customer service from purchase to return. I requested a return by email and get this — they scheduled the mattress pick up on the SAME day. 2 gentlemen from “Got Junk” removed the mattress from my bedroom upstairs with my credit card to be credited within 5 business days.
Thanks for taking the time to report back. I’m sorry that you found out that you’re not a “latex person”, but I’m happy that SOL was very responsive with processing your return.
Sorry to revive this thread, but my experience seems to be similar although I’m not sure what to do. My issue is that I’m primarily a back sleeper (5’10" 145lb so pretty skinny for sure), and I went with the SOL medium mattress since my partner weighs about the same and is primarily a stomach and side sleeper. They advised us that back and stomach sleepers would definitely need a medium and not soft mattress, but the medium is way too firm for my partner. So we added a 2’’ soft dunlop latex topper from SOL. That works for my partner, but for me sleeping on my back without the topper I find the mattress still too firm. The weird thing is that with the 2’’ soft topper it just feels too soft for me. So I was considering getting either a 1’’ soft topper for my side or exchanging the whole mattress for the soft version.
My concern with the exchange is that I get stuck with a mattress that is too soft and thus can’t be easily firmed up with a topper the way a more firm mattress can be. But everything I’ve read leads me to believe that the “soft” dunlop latex mattress is really close to a “medium” spring mattress. So I really am stuck at this point not sure if I shot roll the dice with the 1’’ topper or spring for the soft SOL mattress. This is my third mattress in 6 months, and I can’t go out shopping again and again like this. Any advice?
I understand why you’d be concerned with getting “stuck” with a soft mattress and you are correct that it is “safer” to go with a slightly firmer option because you can always soften the upper layers and improve pressure relief and “comfort” but it’s much more difficult to firm up the support of a mattress that is too soft because this involves removing or replacing layers or components that are too soft (instead of adding to them) which could be much more difficult to do. Either of the two options you mentioned could work, but unfortunately, I’m unable to predict what might be best for you because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress.
In the last couple of months Sleep On Latex transitioned to slightly softer versions of foams to accommodate the consumer “need” for more plushness. I don’t know how long ago you purchased your mattress from them, but it is possible that this slight change could be just what you need in terms of comfort. I suggest you give SOL a call and provide them with details about your current mattress topper combination and the results of your experiments along with your body type and sleeping positions and your preferences to see which of the options has the best chance of matching your desired level of comfort.
Thanks for the reply! My mattress was purchased very recently. So it’s surely the “softer” version. Unfortunately, it just is too firm for my back. I’m going to try out a 1’’ topper to see if that makes any difference and then move over to a more conventional spring mattress. It’s what I wanted to avoid (especially purchased from a large chain store), but at this point I can’t risk the soft latex one not working out. It’s a shame because I found the quality of the product compared to the crappy memory/polyurethane foam beds to be much higher and appreciated that it’s non-toxic.
As Pure Green medium was too firm for both of you and adding the 2" soft topper proved to be good for your partner but too soft for you, I agree that probably the 1" topper may be the best solution for both of you to have the “middle ground” softness/firmness combination. As your partner is primarily a prone sleeper I would be hesitant to suggest the softer version of SOL as this may cause sleeping in a swayback position that might result in lower back pains. There’s a bit more information about common sleeping positions and appropriate sleeps surfaces here.
If both you and your partner decide to switch to a spring mattress, I would pay the most attention to your own careful and objective testing which will tell you how the innerspring performs in combination with the other layers and materials in a mattress (versus using a latex core) and to the quality of the materials above the innerspring which is normally the weakest link in a mattress. You certainly can find a comfortable combination using springs or latex. There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article , in post #10 here and in post #16 here
and you can use your previous experience and testing and seek guidance from some of our Expert and Trusted Members that carry innerspring hybrids and can use the information you provide them with about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, and the history and experience with the previous mattress to recommend something that would be suitable for both you and your partner.
Hope that the new mattress/toper combo will work out for you and I look forward to any updates you might have along the way
Well I’m in luck in that a local foam supplier is willing to cut my 2’’ thick “soft” dunlop latex mattress topper in half to give me a 1’’ piece to work with. I have my suspicion that this still won’t do it and I’ll just end up getting a different mattress, but I appreciate all the help either way! Will report back if it’s a success. Otherwise, assume not.
It sounds like you have a good plan. Nice that you found a local solution to slit the topper to make it thinner.
Keep us posted! I’ll be interested to know if the 1" made the difference.
So here’s the update. I was able to get the latex topper cut to 1’’ at a local foam supplier! Just cost me $10. Unfortunately, it still does not seem to be working out for me (after a week of sleeping with it). 1’’ is definitely better for me, but I’m still getting some upper back pain, though it’s much reduced. Today was the first day it didn’t hurt a ton for me, but I’m going to go mattress shopping this weekend as I don’t think this latex mattress is going to work out no matter what I do with toppers.
I don’t think my back will “adjust” more or anything to this mattress because I shouldn’t have any back pain after sleeping on an adjusted mattress after a week. I really don’t buy the whole “30 days to get used to it” mantra. Pain should appear in the adjustment period.
It saddens me because I really don’t have time to keep swapping mattresses, and my city has only mattress firms and a few $3000 minimum organic bedding stores. So I’m going to have to roll the dice with a mid-level beautyrest I think
I can’t fit a bunch of visits to the specialty stores into my schedule to find a bed that’s out of my price range already, and I’m about to send my 3rd mattress to be recycled. It’s so wasteful for no reason (who knows if they even actually get recycled). I just need this process to be over, hopefully for a good while. I’d love to try a different latex supplier, but I can’t deal with the hassle of the returning yet another bed in a box.
You’ll certainly want to bring this up when you phone Sleep on Latex. With certain disc issues, you may wish to defer to something offer a bit of a firmer deep support to help promote a more “neutral” alignment.
, there is information about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in