Hi Jnilles.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum 
My fiancée (5’7" and 140lb) and I (6’0" and 175lb) purchased a King Sized Avocado Green mattress with a pillow top in the end of April 2022. We are also both using a king sized Weekender Ventilated Gel Memory Foam pillow. We are combination sleepers, but side sleepers 90% of the time. We have been using it for about 8 months, but we are still experiencing discomfort. We hoped it would break in, but the level of discomfort has remained the same or gotten a little worse. We have 4 more months to decide if we keep it or not.
Sorry to hear that you and your fiancée are having discomfort with your new Avocado Green Pillowtop. You are certainly correct that after 8 months the mattress should be fully ‘broken in’. You don’t say how long you had your previous Geneva Firm mattress, but generally, the differences between a polyfoam/viscoelastic foam mattress and a latex hybrid are significant.
Avocado Green hybrid-latex Pillow-Top is a well-built durable mattress. While it is advertised as having a gentle-firm comfort level, many people still find it too firm. Part of this has to do with the mattress being tufted which would add some extra tightness and result in a firmer feel. The latex underneath will be held around the points of tufting and be compressed to a certain level. It isn’t as common for latex to be tufted in a mattress, as this usually would take away some of the buoyancy and point elasticity that people are seeking with latex.
My discomfort more in my neck and upper back, but sometimes lower back. Her discomfort is worse and more in her upper and lower back. We both feel as though the mattress is still a bit too firm.
You are both on the lighter side of “normal” BMI ranges and as you didn’t mention any preexisting health conditions you may be quite right that the culprit for your “discomfort” is too much firmness for your 90% side sleeping. You also both indicate lower back pains (different degrees of intensity) which are usually connected with an out-of-alignment spine. To eliminate any other potential causes I’d first do a “ground-up” assessment to make sure that there is nothing under or above the mattress that may be contributing to this.
The mattress needs to rest on an evenly supportive base that will not sag or weaken over time under the weight of the mattress and the people on it. You can verify if the support system you are using is appropriate if you place your mattress directly on the floor to see if that makes any difference for you. If it improves then you also have a foundation issue that needs to be addressed.
Whenever “neck and upper back” pains are involved I’d also check the pillow. (5" thick “Weekender pillow”) Generally, the goal of a pillow is to keep your head and neck in good alignment in all your sleeping positions. Which pillow does this for any particular person or on any particular mattress will vary widely from person to person. Side sleepers need a higher profile pillow but how high is dependent on the shoulder width and the position of the arms when sleeping. For example, the arm placed in outward rotation and shoulder joint flexion under your head will take up some of the space that the pillow normally occupies and will provide less of a forgiving surface than what the mattress would normally provide. If this is the case, you’d need to adjust your pillow selection to reflect this. Some people will flex their arm at the elbow and place their hand(s) under their cheek, either above or below the pillow, and this will also impact pillow selection.
You do mention sleeping hot – this is much more common on a polyfoam mattress than a latex mattress. As you can see in the Mattress Specifications You Need To Know as well as the Mattress Durability Guidelines latex is one of the most durable and breathable materials you can have in a mattress. Other things to consider are:
- You may have the wrong comfort level for your Stats/PPP. A too-soft support layer can also cause issues with alignment, as you can sink too far down. That would usually happen with higher gauge pocket coils or innerspring.
- As a side sleeper, when you lay on your side, your back profile should be straight (as it looks from behind when you are standing). If your spine is bent or contorted out of your neutral alignment this could cause the neck and back pains you mention.
- Latex type: Dunlop has a different feel, and is more settled’, Talalay is considered ‘bouncier’ but it is perceived by most as softer and cradling. If possible, you might want to try a Talalay mattress/topper in a local retailer to see if you like the feel…before you go to the trouble of returning the Avocado Green
Considering adding a Tempur-Adapt Topper.
As you noticed, the only possible “customization” for AG pillow-top, would be adding a topper but you may lose the support that you need to keep your spine in proper alignment, on top of adding $500 to the cost. While a mattress topper is a good solution to soften a mattress if its’ too firm, as your mattress is already 13" thick, at your BMI adding another 3" topper for a total of 7" in comfort layers can have drawbacks in terms of support and spinal alignment.
This said, if I were to add a topper and if everything else checks out (pillow, foundation, spinal alignment), I would suggest a thinner Talalay topper instead. Talalay rubber is comparable in pressure point relief qualities with viscoelastic foam. Additionally, Talalay is the most breathable and “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials but the firmness of a mattress or topper and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. Your lighter weight would increase the odds of success with a thinner top topper but it would still depend on your body type and the length of time you spent in each sleeping position.
I understand most foam mattresses (including latex) don’t have or even really need side support if they have a support core that is firm enough and the comfort layers aren’t too thick and/or soft for the person sleeping on it. If we go with another bed is there a recommendation for a place to start for a foam mattress with a firm support core and adequate comfort layers that doesn’t run too hot?
You are correct, in most cases, you will not typically need any additional side support. Because latex is so durable and also point elastic (conforms to the shape of the weight on top of it without having a significant effect on the area beside it) and because of its high compression modulus (the rate at which a material gets firmer with deeper compression) … for most people it doesn’t normally require edge reinforcement for sleeping even for heavy people. This is particularly true if the support layers are firm enough for the person sleeping on the mattress.
In terms of temperature regulation, a hybrid latex mattress using a pocket coil core is your best option. The pocket-coil is one of the most breathable types of cores…followed by latex which is also the most breathable and “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials. Latex allows for more airflow than any other foam and when changing positions on the mattress the air will be moved in and out like within an accordion. This said it’s also not always possible to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with … there is more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that may be helpful.
If you are, unable to resolve the discomfort and decide to return the Avocado Green, you have many possible options. The Trusted Members of the site is a good place to start. They have time-tested durable, and good-quality hybrid latex mattress designs with features similar to your current mattress. Some quick mattresses to pinpoint are Arizona SleepEZ offers the Hybrid 360 Pillowtop; GhostBed Has the GhostBed Natural, and Nest Bedding carries the Owl Natural Latex Hybrid (both GhostBed and Nest Bedding are also carried by some of the larger department stores, like Macy’s Walmart and Target, so you can try these in person). I hope you are able to determine the problem area with your Avocado – but if you are looking at other options, let us know and we can comment on any potential new mattresses you are considering.
Phoenix