Hi Everyone! I’ve been reading but am feeling overwhelmed by ALL the info out here and would love some advice on our situation. We are a couple looking for a new king mattress. The current one we have is a non-flipable spring mattress with a pillow top. It was great at first but is now terrible and I know I would NEVER buy a non-flipable coil spring again. Theres where my dilemma started. I had figured we’d just get a new mattress that was flipable – we then ended up in one of the few stores in Seattle that sells them and started trying out other options. Now we are looking at latex although my boyfriend keeps trying to convince me to go with Sleep Number and I DO NOT want to do that.
We are both large people - between 350-380lbs and tall with most of our weight around our middles. I tend to sleep on my side and he’s a side and back sleeper. We have tried out a couple latex mattresses a year or so ago and all I remember from a business card the salesman wrote on was that the one that felt best at the time was a 36ILD (if that’s the right way to say it) with a latex topper. Part of why we haven’t gotten a new mattress yet is the price. I believe that one was about 3K and I really didn’t want to spend that much. I can’t stand a mattress that’s too firm but the latex topper seemed to make it firm enough for him and not too firm for me.
Now I don’t know what to do. I am considering ordering online - maybe Brooklyn Bedding - but worry that it’s somehow more risky to do that given that we are larger people (I have no idea why I think this in particular but it’s the first thing that pops into my mind). It seems like a similar bed there would be about 1K less. oh also if we went with BB I am not sure if The Aloe Alexis or the Total Latex would be the way to go. The local shop here definitely tried to convince us that 100% latex was the best.
The first place I would start to help you get past the confusion is post #1 here which includes the basic information, steps, and guidelines that will help you make the best possible choices.
The post also includes a link to some of the better online choices for latex mattresses that are among the best of the best in the country.
With your heavier weights … latex would make a particularly good choice because of its durability but I would make sure that you spend some time talking with some of the manufacturers listed there to make sure that you choose the most suitable mattress for your weights and sleeping style because you will need firmer support and comfort layers than the norm.
You can read more about the differences between a latex / polyfoam hybrid and an all latex mattress in post #2 here. With your higher weights you will tend to “go through” the top layer of a mattress so the Aloe Alexis with a middle latex layer would be a better and more durable choice than a latex hybrid with only a single layer of latex and an all latex mattress in the range of 9" to 12" (some of the benefits of a thicker latex mattress for higher weights are here) would probably be a better choice yet if it was comfortably in your budget…
I’m assuming from your username that you are in the Seattle area and some of the better options I’m aware of in the Seattlearea are listed in post #2 here.
I am curious what you think about mattress toppers as including in the mattress thickness. The Total Latex at BB is only 10" and it seems like something thicker would be preferable. If we got a 3 inch topper would this be like having at 13" mattress or am I fooling myself?
The thickness of a mattress by itself has very little to do with how well it will work. The belief that “thicker is better” sells a lot of mattresses that have a lot of low quality and cheap materials in them that will soften or break down very quickly.
For the large majority of people 8" to 9" of latex is all they need unless they are beginning to approach the mid 200 or 300 lb range.
Everything depends on all the details of all the layers and how they interact together because every layer (including a topper) will affect every other layer in a mattress.
There would be hundreds of 13" mattress designs (if not more) that could use different combinations of materials, layers, and firmness levels in their design (with or without a topper) and all of them could be very different from each other.
There is no “generalization” of what a 13" mattress would feel like or how it would perform that could possibly be accurate.
In general though I would tend to work with one variable at a time and choose a mattress that would be as close as possible to your ideal in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and then only consider adding a topper if you make a comfort choice that is too firm and need to add some extra softness to the comfort layers of your mattress. Working with two “unknown variables” (a mattress and a topper) at the same time makes it much more difficult to predict how well the combination would work for you unless you can test them together or they are part of a sleeping system that are designed to work together.
So we went out today and did some more mattress testing. I thought I was getting closer to knowing what I wanted but now I am even more confused after reading more posts.
Our local store had a nice dunlop latex mattress that had a 6in core with a 35 ILD and two “comfort layers” of dunlop in 22 ILD (one layer on each side of the mattress so it could be flipable. http://www.bedroomsandmore.com/images/products/mattress/45th-street-mattresses/two-sided-latex-mattress-woodlawn-extra-firm.htm It was comfortable for both of us and seemed good. But I was still comparing it to the BB 10in total latex mattress that is 1500 cheaper. However that one has two layers of latex and isn’t flipable. (Or is it? Maybe you could unzip it and flip the layers individually but that sounds like a pain in the butt). Then I read that the softer layers are the ones that break down first so I am worried we would buy the local mattress and end up with a squishy bed soon and no way to replace the layers that aren’t comfortable.
I would just follow the steps in post #1 here to “cut through” the confusion.
When you are testing mattresses locally the ILD is not important to know and your own personal testing is the best way to test for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences).
Your comfort choices with an online purchase would involve a more detailed phone call because you couldn’t test it first in person.
All soft materials are less durable than firmer versions of the same material but latex in any ILD is more durable than the equivalent in other materials. I certainly wouldn’t worry about the durability of the Dunlop latex in the ILD you are looking at and the Woodlawn mattress is also two sided which will increase the durability over an equivalent one sided mattress as well (probably by 2/3). IMO … it is certainly good quality and good value as well (and a similar mattress from a major manufacturer … if you could even find one with the same quality … would be much more.
It’s also not $1500 more than the total latex mattress which also has 9" of latex and I would also factor in the added “value” of a two sided mattress which is a more costly design. I also tend to use a 20% difference or so when you are comparing local to online to be roughly equivalent value because you have the ability to test it in person and the risk is lower although of course each person my have a different risk tolerance and their own idea of the difference between a local and online purchase that would be “equivalent value” for them.
Assuming that you have done the testing and had the conversations so that these are your “final choices” out of all the mattresses that you are considering at each place and that you’ve talked in detail with each of them so you are familiar with the pros and cons and options of each choice …
The 10" total latex mattress (in queen size) is $1799. This is one sided but has the advantage of having a replaceable comfort layer (which is also a value bonus because you can replace a layer instead of the whole mattress) but the bottom two layers can’t be flipped and are sewn into the mattress. The Woodlawn is $2300 in queen size. The difference is $500 (roughly 27%) and once you factor in the extra value of a mattress that is finished on both sides they would be much closer in terms of value depending on which parts of your own personal value equation are most important to you.
If you were only choosing only between these two then your final choices would certainly be between good and good IMO.
So we bought the local mattress and it’s horrible. Well my partner loves it and is sleeping great and I slept ok for the first 4 nights but on night 5 I got a major pain in my shoulder and have been a mess ever since. (We’ve had it just over a week). We have gone back to the store and tried one topper - I thought that was going to make a difference but this morning I had to move at 5am into our guest bedroom with my childhood bed that’s over 20 years old because it is more comfortable.
I shouldn’t go to sleep pain free and wake up with my hips and lower back hurting right?
I feel overwhelmed and unsure of what to do now. We are going to try another topper but I am suspecting that the mattress is just too hard for me. Which really sucks because there is a restocking fee… and delivery isn’t free on the replacement… etc etc etc.
Any suggestions at this point? (oh the topper did help with the shoulder pain but not the hip pain.)
The mattress you purchased is certainly good quality and value but of course quality and value has little to do with it’s suitability for any particular person.
It will take some time for any new mattress to break in and also to adjust to any new sleeping surface and I would normally suggest that you give any new mattress 30 days or so before making any initial assessments (2 weeks at a very minimum). If you do need to make any changes to your sleeping system then it’s also very important to make sure that you first assess the underlying cause of the specific issues you are having and whether they are likely to be pressure or alignment issues so any changes you make have better odds of moving you in the right direction rather than making things worse. This is where the knowledge and experience of a good retailer or manufacturer will be particularly valuable.
In the long term no of course not but it’s not at all uncommon to experience discomfort in the first few weeks when you change your mattress and your sleeping surface. Post #2 here has more information about this. This can depend on how carefully and objectively you tested the mattress and how well your testing was able to simulate your normal sleeping experience. Normally good testing will be a good predictor of your longer term needs and preferences with only minor changes needed if any but of course there are always exceptions to everything.
The good news is that it’s always much wiser to choose a mattress that is too firm than choosing a mattress that is too soft. Any mattress will soften over time and you can always “fix” a mattress that is too firm by adding a suitable topper but it’s much more difficult and less effective to “fix” a mattress that is too soft because it involves replacing or exchanging layers rather than adding softer layers on top.
Your next step would be to work closely with the retailer to try and assess the reasons behind your sleeping experience and what type of changes are most likely to correct them if the initial break in and adjustment period doesn’t do this automatically.
The situation isn’t resolved yet and the retailer is trying to be helpful but isn’t as knowledgable as I thought they were. For example we went to try beds again and I found out that they only have one ILD option in toppers. The topper they have seems to be way too soft for us.
At the moment we have the bed we purchased with TWO three inch toppers from Brooklyn Bedding. It’s ok but not great. I am unhappy that it’s #1 too thick of a mattress. - it’s about 15-17 inches and our sheets don’t fit on it and #2 I think it’s ridiculous that I had to pay for two toppers (we may exchange one) to get it to feel tolerable.
The options right now are to keep it as is, exchange it for one that’s one or two steps down in firmness (I think if we go only one down we will still need two toppers but I’m not sure) or exchange it for a bed that’s significantly less expensive with no comfort layers (something like this http://www.bedroomsandmore.com/images/products/mattress/45th-street-mattresses/two-sided-latex-mattress-winslow-extra-firm.htm) in the hopes that we would have a thinner mattress and then just use the topper/s we have.
What I HAVE determined is that its a pressure issue. The trouble is that it doesn’t happen until I’ve laid on the mattress for hours. Trying them out in store and laying for even 30 min I am pretty much ok.
Any more feedback that might be helpful? I don’t know what to do and we only get one exchange!
In a situation like this where 1 sleep partner is comfortable, and the other is so not, would 2 singles with 2 different
Latex types on 1 platform be possibility?
It’s hard for me to imagine a situation were a mattress needed two 3" toppers although your higher weight may be an exception because your experience on a mattress or “sleeping system” will be outside the norm.
I think you may be making changes too quickly. I would make sure that you sleep on a mattress for at least a couple of weeks before adding any toppers at all. While a specific symptom may not appear until you have spent some time on a mattress (particularly with much higher weights where discomfort is more likely regardless of the mattress you purchase) … if you do some careful and “objective” testing in all your sleeping positions then you will usually have some more subtle “cues” that can come closer to predicting your longer term sleeping experience on a mattress. Good testing will usually result in a mattress that is “close enough” to the level of comfort and support you need to allow you to sleep on it for a couple of weeks. Of course your actual sleeping experience now is also your testing so I would make sure that you sleep on each combination for as long as possible before taking the next step.
Once you have slept on a mattress for long enough to identify any changes that are necessary … I would make one change (or add one topper) at a time based on your experience and “symptoms” on the previous mattress or combination you tried. No matter how closely your testing or sleeping experience is able to predict your long term experience … you are the only one who can feel what you feel on a mattress and your own testing and experience will always be more accurate than anything else and everyone else’s thoughts and ideas are only “guidance” and secondary to your own actual experience which may be different from what anyone expects. The topper guidelines in post #2 here would help with each change although I would add some thickness to the guidelines to compensate for your greater weight. I would then sleep on any new combination for at least a week or so before changing or adding anything else.
I would also keep in mind that when you are dealing with unusual health or physiological situations such as weight issues that there may be no mattress that is a “perfect” solution by itself and that more customized approaches may be necessary to get to the “best possible” sleeping system that a mattress can provide. Post #11 here has some ideas that may also be helpful about more customized zoning.
I would also make sure you are dealing with the most knowledgeable person at the retailer where you purchased the mattress (or ask them about who you can talk with that may have more knowledge or experience with people that are in similar circumstances to you).
It may also be helpful if you could list all the specifics of what you are sleeping on in the forum (the type, thickness, and firmness level of each layer and component in your mattress and each topper) which may also provide some clues about what may be your “next best” step.
Yes … this would be one of the options that would be a potential solution when the needs and preferences of a couple are very different. Some of my thoughts about various possible solutions are in the first part of post #2 here.
The mattress we purchased is a king with a 6 inch core of dunlop latex ILD 35. It has comfort layers on each side which are 1.5 inches and are dunlop 22 ILD.
After we realized how hard it was we purchased our first topper from Brooklyn Bedding. It is a 3 inch talalay topper that is a 28 ILD. It felt better but not good enough as we could feel the mattress under it still so BB recommended trying and/or adding a 3 inch talalay 32 ILD topper.
Somehow the most comfortable situation is the mattress plus the 32 ILD topper AND on top of that the 28 ILD topper.
Like I said below the problem is now that I have spent more than I wanted and I can barely get into the bed because it is so high.
(funnily enough my partner is now feeling like it IS comfortable for the most part so that’s not really an issue anymore).
Oh other info - we slept on the mattress alone for about two weeks (that was UNBEARABLY HARD). Then we slept on the mattress and the 28 ILD topper for 3 weeks. Then the mattress and the 32 ILD topper for a couple days. Then the mattress and both toppers together for about 3 weeks now.
Our current options are:
1)Keep what we have and feel like I am pole vaulting into bed at night and buy all new sheets that will fit
Exchange and get the mattress that is one step down from ours in firmness (bed height and sheets will still be an issue. I will also have a $150 store credit but no refund - I may then be able to return one of the toppers and get a refund)
3)Exchange and get the mattress that is ONLY the core. We could get this in dunlop 35 ILD or one step down (sorry can’t remember what ILD that is. Keep both toppers. In this scenario we would have a mattress that is 3 inches smaller and no comfort layer aside from our toppers. I am leaning toward this but wonder if we would notice the feeling of the 1.5 inches gone or not. We would also have a significant store credit that I could then use to buy a bed frame which would make me feel better about what I got for our $$$$ (a mattress, two toppers and a bed frame vs just a mattress and two toppers)
I’m curious to know your opinion on our options AND if you think we would greatly notice the 1.5 inches of 22 ILD that is missing if we get the mattress that is just the core material. From speaking to the guys at BB they seemed to indicate that a 22 ILD is just so soft that it provides no support and protection from the core so the hopeful part of me is thinking we would not notice this.
Honestly I never expected this to be such a nightmare. And it’s funny that I was hesitant to make such a large purchase online so that swayed me toward going with the local mattress store but BB is SO much more knowledgable about ILD’s then the local store. In fact the local store only offers toppers in one ILD which makes absolutely no sense to me!
With 6" of latex toppers and another 1.5" of soft latex on top of your mattress it would certainly be enough for most people … even with your weight … that it would completely isolate them from the firmness of the base foam. Removing the 1.5" and having 6" vs 7.5 inches of soft latex probably wouldn’t make a great deal of difference for most people.
With higher weights it’s much more likely that you would be “going through” a single topper and the thin 1.5" layer of soft Dunlop and feeling more of the firmness of the support core underneath.
If you used just a 6" Dunlop mattress with both of your toppers it would likely work well and you would still have 12" of latex which would
be plenty. Thickness also adds to the feeling of softness and allows for the use of firmer foam and creates a more adaptable mattress for higher weights (see post #14 here).
About your options one by one …
It’s tough to argue with success so this would be a good option but it probably wouldn’t be that much different from option #3 which would also add the benefits of a lower height.
This would depend on the details of the softer mattress. If it involves the same firmness in the support core but thicker layers on top then it may work with just a single topper but if the softer mattress used a softer support core and had the same comfort layers on top I’d probably go with other options because the firmer support would probably be more suitable for you. You could always take a single topper into the store and test this option with one of your toppers (although I know it would seem odd to lug a topper into the store) to see how it worked. Overall this option seems less attractive than some of the others.
This is probably the option I would lean towards as well. It’s not likely you would notice a significant difference losing only 1.5" of soft latex but still having 6" remaining in the comfort layers (although depending on your sensitivity you may notice a little). Again … you could “lug” both of your toppers into the store and test the combination in person.
I’m somewhat surprised that you didn’t notice the firmness of the mattress when you were testing it in the store but at least you seem to have a good “handle” on the combination that works best for you.
Overall … I would tend to go with either option #1 or #3 and probably lean towards #3 because it has good odds of having the comfort you want and a little lower height.
So we bought the local mattress and it’s horrible. Well my partner loves it and is sleeping great and I slept ok for the first 4 nights but on night 5 I got a major pain in my shoulder and have been a mess ever since. (We’ve had it just over a week). We have gone back to the store and tried one topper - I thought that was going to make a difference but this morning I had to move at 5am into our guest bedroom with my childhood bed that’s over 20 years old because it is more comfortable.