I recently purchase a 13 inch Flexus, 4 layer mattress. The components are soft talalay 3in, medium Dunlop, firm dunlop and the lowest layer is x firm. I have been noticing some lower back pain just at the level of the lumbar spine meeting the coccyx. I have been trying to locate the issue as it seems solvable. So far I have “upgraded” my bed frame. The slats on the frame we have were too thin and far apart. So I ordered 0.75 inch thick slats and installed those 1 inch apart. I have slept on it 3 nights with the upgraded slat support and it hasn’t helped. Additionally I moved the firm above the medium to give me more “support” (I used quotes because I wonder if I’m using that term incorrectly). This did not help at all. I’m wondering what to try next. I notice that the soft talalay is so soft that I probably bottom it out immediately and perhaps I hit the support layer before my hips can sink in enough? Thoughts? My dimensions are 6’2" 230lbs. Thank you
For reference, my wife who is much shorter and lighter than I, is not having these issues.
Based on Sleep EZ’s configurator, you may need medium Talalay instead of soft. for the top layer. The rest of the layering, Dunlop top-bottom, matched: medium, firm, extra firm. I had a similar experience since I’m in the same weight range. Soft Talalay’s estimated best under 185 lbs. by the configurator.
Hi Royalty.
Sorry to hear of the pain you’re experiencing!
To steal some words of wisdom from Phoenix…there will always be a “period of retrogression” where it normally takes someone time to adjust to their new product, and this can depend upon the old mattress and it’s level of support and comfort (and this would have an impact upon your “learned alignment” that you might need to overcome), your own level of flexibility and strength, and your particular sensitivities, among other things.
Burpleson offered some useful firsthand experience. Thanks, Burpleson! SleepEZ’s recommendations are generally quite thoughtful, so it may be worth considering the medium layer. If you’re worried about the difference in comfort/support between you and your wife, you could also consider a split configuration for the top layer, with you using medium and her using soft - and then housing it under the same mattress encasement.
I’ll also leave this information here, should it be useful to you:
Lower back issues generally come from a mattress that has upper layers that are too thick and soft and/or support layers which are too soft which can allow the pelvis to sink down too far relative to the rest of the body. This tilts the pelvis which changes the natural curve of the Lumbar spine and can lead to lower back issues. A mattress that is too soft can also allow the hips to sink down too far which flexes the hip joints out of their neutral position which can also lead to joint soreness or back soreness if the muscles are working to keep the back and hips in alignment.
In some cases a mattress that is too firm can also cause lower back issues because the body doesn’t sink in far enough to fill in the gaps in the small of the back and/or the waist (depending on the sleeping position) and the recessed curves of the back can sag. Finally if a mattress is too firm and there are pressure points on the hips (for side sleepers especially) then you may “twist” the lower body away from pressure which twists the spine and and puts it out of rotational alignment which can also cause back discomfort or pain in the area where the spine is twisted.
In most cases … lower back issues come from comfort layers that are too thick and soft and/or support layers that are too soft which can both allow the pelvis to sink down too far and put the lumbar spine out of alignment.
NikkiTMU
Thanks everyone. I definitely considered the retrogression aspect; however, I’ve had it over a week now and it seems to be moving in the opposite direction in terms of comfort. I am thinking the latex is too soft and too deep. It’s a solid 3 inches and it’s very soft talalay. Just applying force to the talalay in isolation allows me to completely flatten it and I suspect my body is doing that. To experiment I will remove the talalay and either place it on the bottom layer or just remove it and just use the 9 inches of layers. The question I have is: if this fixes my issue, I will likely miss the plushness of the talalay. Would I be able to get away with a 1 inch topper just to relieve the pressure/have that plush feeling?
Also purpleson, how did you overcome this issue?
Switched from soft to medium Talalay for the top layer.
Thanks for your reply and help, I appreciate it. So last night I removed the soft talalay and slept on medium Dunlop 3 inch, firm Dunlop 3 inch and xfirm Dunlop 3 inch. Granted, this is just 1 nights data, I can say I definitely didn’t turn as much and despite going to bed later I feel more well rested. My wife heavily noted (and myself) that it feels quite firm. I believe I will ask Flexus to do a layer exchange, swapping out the soft for a medium. I have two options ahead of me I believe: either see if they have a medium talalay to go over my current medium Dunlop and hope the talalay feel will be sufficient for that softness that my wife and I like or get another medium Dunlop (i.e. 2 layers of Dunlop medium over firm and x firm) and place a skinny <2 inch soft talalay topper. Does anyone have thoughts on either of these configurations? Pitfalls? Suggestions? Ultimately Flexus offers a nice layer exchange to help get the mattress right, but I would like to not waste too much of their time and effort.
Hopefully to not spam the topic, but one other questions is, does anyone have experience with putting the soft under a firmer top layer to give that firmer top a slightly softer feel? I recall reading one of Phoenix posts about how the under layer will help the top layer take on some of its properties. My real true question is, would this configuration worsen overall support?
Hi Royalty.
That sounds like a fantastic course of action. Please keep us posted on your findings.
Yes, you would very likely be able to keep some of that plushness with a 1" topper as opposed to 3" without compromising your support and alignment.
To answer your question about a softer layer under a firmer layer…there is a time and place for this and Phoenix talks about it in detail here.
I hope you find some great insights there!
NikkiTMU
Thanks for the info. I actually tried putting the soft layer in a couple different positions.
#1 medium soft firm xfirm - squishy nightmare. No support but very soft
#2 medium firm soft xfirm - too squishy, back pain shortly not enough support.
#3 medium firm xfirm soft. Still shockingly soft, comfortable at first but I just sink in and support is lacking. Also the smallest amount of movement is transfered like a bowl of jelly
Take away: it’s very interesting how much lower layers alter the feel of the upper layers.
#4 medium firm xfirm. No soft used. Excellent support but feels very firm.
Have decided to pursue a layer exchange and go with medium medium firm xfirm, if need increased plushness will buy a thin soft topper.
Hi Royalty. I bought a 10" 3 layer latex mattress from Flexus about a year and a half ago and have had a similar problem with it. The configuration has been firm, med, and soft on top, but I have tried other configurations as well. I’ve noticed that both my wife’s side and mine are dipping in the top soft layer leaving a hump in the middle between us, The dip is quite visible, even with no one on the bed.I have been having lower back pain for over 10 months and really need to find a solution. You mention trying the medium Dunlop layer as the top layer. My wife found that to be to firm. I am wondering if maybe an exchange for Talalay medium would give you (and possibly me and my wife) a better comfort feeling but also more supportive top layer. I too like the idea of trying the soft layer just below a top medium, but preferably Talalay. In any case, I am currently working with Henry at Flexus who seems quite knowledgeable and helpful, to try resolve my situation.