I would only add that since you and your husband may have significantly different mattress needs, many mattresses (especially foam) can be made as a side-to-side split, such that your side and his side are different softnesses to better match each of your PPP needs.
At the risk of over generalizing, you may need a softer mattress with softer foams due to your lighter weight, and he may need a firmer mattress. Of course, this is generalizing, and the tutorial post Phoenix posted is what you both want to accomplish.
We drove to Vancouver and visited quite a few mattress stores as well as the discount foam store. The most success we had was first at the Discount Foam And Furniture. After much changing and exchanging different foam layers, it seemed the best comfort was found with a 6" naturally latex base with a 2 inch medium soft middle and a two inch soft latex topper. That was all 100% natural unbleached foam. There seem to be just that last little bit of comfort missing though and the price for all that because of the 6 inch latex base was well over $2100. The man who helped us there was very thorough and the good thing there is that they don’t glue their layers together so the mattress ultimately can be unzipped and flipped.
So we carried onto some other stores and were disappointed that Bedcetera in Vancouver only sells bunkbeds. Their other beds are all online so we couldn’t really try anything there. The other store we found disappointing was Mr. Mattress. It seems like a great website and a great idea that you can still have a mattress that can be flipped but the warehouse itself was quite dingy and dirty. I don’t think I feel comfortable buying anything from there but they do have some good deals on their coil spring air mattresses. We didn’t find anything even close to wanting to lay down on at the High Sun mattress store either. But again it’s another place that has some awesome prices if you have a body that can sleep on just any mattress! As is Ikea!
We visited Essentia as well as it is highly rated and reviews in Vancouver but there were only memory foam beds so that didn’t work for us. It is very expensive as well there. At least $4000.
We then went to the Majestic Sit and sleep store and found a bed called Lucarno which was 8 inch certified Organic Dunlop latex foam but with the layers glued together. With a wool topper it was quite comfortable but retailed around $2100 on sale.
There is a local store which carries some Restonic mattresses and I tried one called Tempagel. I can’t seem to find many reviews on that bed It is a 1 inch Talalay latex topper with a 2 1/2 pound Tampa gel 5 pound foam and a 2 inch 4 pound foam Visco memory and then A 6 inch high density poly core. Everything is through Certapur. Cost was $2100. Again it’s one I can’t find a lot of reviews on this specific type of bed.
The other bed I’ve tried and liked was the Dr. Breus Sleep Doctor bed but that line does seem to have a lot of negative reviews. And I wonder if the"celebrity" status of the bed line influences the price. “Special introductory price” $2800 for a queen set. At that store we also tried Novapure Aberdeen Falls which wasn’t bad. " Dunlop Ultra Trizone" latex pure.
Do you have any input regarding any of these mattresses I’ve mentioned, Phoenix? I still am sleeping very poorly every night because of pain so any further input you have would be appreciated. I did read the tutorials you suggested and would appreciate some further guidance.
I don’t know what “100% natural unbleached foam” is and it isn’t a type of latex. When you are looking at a latex mattress then the type and blend of latex (Dunlop or Talalay and whether each layer is 100% natural or a blend of natural or synthetic … or in some cases organic latex which is more costly) is the information you would need to make meaningful comparisons between latex mattresses. Regardless of the type though … a mattress that has 10" of latex (and nothing else) would be good quality and would have no “weak links”.
As you know from reading the tutorials … outside of how good a match a mattress is in terms of PPP … a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials inside it so to make meaningful comments about any of the mattresses or identify any possible weak links I would need to know the specifics of what is inside them.
I can make a few comments about some of the mattresses you’ve mentioned though …
I didn’t realize that they no longer carried any mattresses on their floor (at one point they did) so I’ve removed them from the list … thanks for the heads up
Again … a “good deal” would depend entirely on the materials inside the mattress and how it compared to other mattresses that used similar materials. They sell Spring Air mattresses made by Restwell in Surrey (who is the local Spring air licensee factory) and unfortunately they don’t disclose the quality of the foam in their mattresses and tend to use lower quality foams. I wouldn’t consider any mattress … two sided or otherwise … where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.
It’s easy to have awesome prices when you use cheap low quality materials. All their mattresses are imported from Asia and there isn’t anything here that I would consider in terms of quality.
Ikea has some good quality and value mattresses available but it depends on which mattress you are considering. There are more comments about some of the Ikea mattresses in post #3 here.
You can read more about Essentia mattresses in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here. The information and claims on their website are misleading and they are another manufacturer that I would be very cautious about considering.
As you probably know I think highly of the people at Majestic Sit and Sleep and they are knowledgeable about teir mattresses and transparent about what is in them so you can make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. A mattress that uses 8" of Certified organic Dunlop and includes a wool topper is a high quality mattress with no weak links.
Once again I would need to know the specifics of all the layers to make meaningful comments but the Tempagel is a type of memory foam (gel memory foam) that is usually 4 lbs and the memory foam they use under this is often 5 lbs (they may have the densities mixed up) but they are both good quality materials. The density of the polyfoam core is missing though. Restonic is typically “better than average” value compared to most mainstream manufacturers but these materials are not in the same value range as latex in terms of cost. Restonic is a licensee group and the mattresses they make vary in different parts of North America so the specifics and design of the mattresses can vary from region to region. In general though … reviews are not particularly meaningful because they don’t generally provide any meaningful information about a mattress and knowing the materials inside a mattress is a much more effective way of evaluating a mattress than using reviews (see post #13 here for more about the difference between reading mattress reviews and mattress research). The support core of a mattress is not generally the weak link of a mattress though and the comfort layers of this mattress are good quality so it’s not likely to have any weak links although I wouldn’t put it in the same quality, cost, or “value” range as an all latex mattress unless it was a significantly better match for you in terms of PPP that would justify the higher price and lower cost/quality materials.
The Dr Breus is also a “partly latex” mattress that tends to be overpriced compared to others that use the same or better quality materials and they also don’t provide any information about the quality of all the layers in the mattress. If you look on the law tag you will see that there is generally more polyfoam in these mattresses than latex. Novopure is made by Restwell in Surrey as well but once again you would need to know the specifics of all the layers and components in this mattress and they don’t tend to provide this to their retailers or customers (outside of the latex).
Overall … I would tend to make some phone calls first before visiting any store (see this article) to make sure that they can provide you with the information you need about a mattress you are considering to make informed choices (the thickness of every layer and component, the type of material in each layer, and the density of any polyfoam or memory foam and the type and blend of any latex) so that you don’t spend time testing mattresses that ends up being wasted because it would be a “blind purchase” at best and a lower quality or value purchase at worst that loses its comfort and support too quickly over the months or years you sleep on it.
I would probably focus on retailers and manufacturers that are more transparent and use high quality materials such as Majestic or Discount Foam and Furniture and some of the others on the list.
Thank you again, Phoenix! Your knowledge is amazing!
Sorry, “100% natural unbleached foam” i had written referred to the mattress cover not the foam. The foam is 100% Dunlop. It would feel better with a wool mattress pad of some sort. Would that be best to have the wool mattress topper included on the inside of the mattress or just sitting on the top?
I followed your advice and called another store “Snugsleep” for information on their mattresses. Custom made as well, and the owner states that in his long experience, couples with the weight discrepancy that my husband and I do, and my having such a light frame makes for the most difficult situation to accommodate with a mattress supportive of each persons body. He emphasizes the benefits of wool and all natural latex. I like the idea of having a mattress “system” that is adjustable for life custom made for us. The price is high though $4000/queen and the distance is over two hours from our house. It sounds like a wonderful bed. I just don’t know if we can come up with that much money for a bed. Do you think that custom made sides would be the best option for us?
No worries about Bedcetera.
Right now it seems like we are between custom made at Discount foam! the Lacarno at Majestic or another long road trip to Snug Sleep. I have visited McLeary’s in Langley as well but was steered to the Dr. Breus. I’ll have to call and see what else they offer.
Either way works well but I would personally tend to use thicker layers of wool as a topper because you can choose the thickness of the wool topper, air it out in the sun (wool is self cleansing if it’s put in the sun) more easily than a cover, and you can also replace or change the wool topper if you need to without replacing the entire mattress. It provides more flexibility in other words than a thicker layer of wool quilted in a cover. Thinner layers of wool in a cover can be a great option to help with sleeping temperature and act as a fire retardant without having to buy a thicker topper so it would really depend on how much wool you preferred to sleep on.
There are several methods that can help a mattress accommodate a couple with different needs and preferences (see the first part of post #2 here) and a split layer construction is certainly one of them that can be a good option. Snugsleep makes some high quality mattresses with very flexible designs but I would also be aware that there are other similar “choose your own layer” mattresses that use the same materials that can also be split that are also available (including in the list of online retailers and manufacturers I listed in my earlier reply that ship throughout Canada) that are significantly less so I would make some careful value comparisons before purchasing a mattress in that price range to make sure that the higher cost is the best match for your personal value equation. I would also make sure you do some careful and objective mattress testing for PPP together because some designs may be a good match for both of you without needing split layering.
I believe he said Talalay, but I have talked to so many people I’m not 100% sure. He did say It was all natural latex from New Zealand and the wool is from NZ as well, and he has used both for almost 30 years.
My experience with Dunlop is that the softest Dunlop isn’t soft enough for me without spending another several hundred dollars on a topper. You surely can’t extrapolate from my experience that you’d have the same response to it, so by no means am I trying to say that Dunlop wouldn’t work for you - all I’m saying is that it isn’t working for me without a featherbed on top of it at the moment (I haven’t yet decided what will end up on top of the mattress long term, but something will, for sure). Big difference in what I bought and what you’re looking at already is that you’re planning on having wool on top - I’m sure that would change the feel of the latex.
I would hope you have a chance to test out in person both Dunlop and Talalay latex. I wish I had done so. Wishing I’d done something differently always reminds me of the old nursery rhyme about how if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride. Me, I’d just need a really big stable in which to house all my horses.
It seems to me that you made a good quality and value choice with your mattress that was close enough to your needs and preferences that you only need some fine tuning which is “normal” with many mattress purchases.
I understand that you are disappointed and you were hoping that the mattress would be perfect as it is without having to purchase anything else to use on top of it but it’s not uncommon at all that a mattress needs some fine tuning and with your medical conditions and circumstances and the fact that each person’s experience is unique I think that your experience would be in the minority and really not that relevant to others. It also appears to me that you made a choice that was close enough to your needs and preferences that only minor fine tuning is needed which is the goal of good testing.
I also understand that you feel that you are helping by posting these “regretful” comments to many others that are considering soft Dunlop as a preference choice … but it’s really not necessary to include your comments about your disappointment each time (implying that they may also be disappointed when in fact it may be a great choice for them) … especially when so many others in your situation would be thrilled with having a mattress that only needed the addition of a featherbed (or perhaps even a wool topper) to be a great match for their needs and preferences. There are people who struggle for years with similar circumstances to yours without finding a solution to their sleeping issues that is as close to their ideal as you have already discovered.
When you first purchased your mattress you were “suggesting” to many others that they consider the same mattress you purchased because it was so “perfect”. When you developed hip pain a month later you are now “suggesting” (through your implications and expressions of regret) that they may want to look in other directions or may “regret” their purchase. In both cases it’s important to understand that your (or anyone’s) experiences on a mattress are unique to you and your specific circumstances and challenges.
While you do mention that “you can’t extrapolate from my experience” … you then go on to imply otherwise just by the act of posting these types of comments and just like reviews that are only based on personal experience and opinions (see post #13 here) … this can “taint” the mattress buying experience for others who don’t yet know to trust their own personal experience by casting a “seed of doubt” for others where your mattress (or something similar) may be perfect for them … with or without anything else on top of it.
It almost appears that you are using other threads as a means to express your frustration more than as a way to inform and I would ask you to be a little cautious with this so you don’t unduly influence other purchase decisions with your own unique and somewhat challenging experiences.
You have my sincere apology for having said anything that I shouldn’t have.
I think this is an excellent resource, and certainly wouldn’t want to do or say anything to take away from the good information that is available here.
I considered the Personal Value Equation again and that definitely has a lot of merit!
Looking at the online retailers, the one that seems to have a quality product that could suit our needs is www.mattresses.net
The owner recommends a split firm/medium core in the queen ultra plush latex and then adding a 3 " soft talalay topper. The cover would be cotton and it sounds like we would have to put everything together. There will be a wool pad on top of latex levels. The price would be around $1600 for queen and then maybe $130 for delivery to a nearby U.S. Shipping address I use often. Returning would involve return shipping costs but they have a 60 day comfort guarantee. I am somewhat nervous about ordering online without trying it first but that is a very good value compared to want we have been looking at. I still would need to find out what mattress duties are for import but as it’s being made in the U.S., my guess there would be little to none.
Does this sounds like it has promise and would work for us?
One more quick question: when I contacted Halstead in Calgary, it was recommended we have mattress body support mapping done before we make an online purchase. Do you know anywhere in the lower mainland/Fraser valley who has a system to do this?
[quote]I am somewhat nervous about ordering online without trying it first but that is a very good value compared to want we have been looking at. I still would need to find out what mattress duties are for import but as it’s being made in the U.S., my guess there would be little to none.
Does this sounds like it has promise and would work for us? [/quote]
Mattresses.net is one of the members here and this would certainly be a good quality/value option. There would be no duty but of course there would be tax across the border and if you use a courier then there is normally a brokerage charge as well (but not if you bring it across yourself).
A manufacturer is generally the one that is most familiar with the specific options they have available and how well each one tends to “match” different body types and sleeping styles based on the averages of their customers that are similar to you so unless your own personal testing on similar mattresses indicates something different then their suggestions would usually have the highest odds of success. Having a split core is also a good way to accommodate different needs and preferences and in this case because the top layer is the same and the core is different the “feel” of the transition between the sides would be less than if the top layer was also split.
You certainly have some good quality/value options you are looking at (locally and online) and I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up deciding and which one you decide is the best match for your personal value equation.
Most of the pressure mapping systems are specific to a certain line of mattress and aren’t really relevant to mattresses as a whole which have different constructions. They also only measure surface pressure (which you can often feel in your own personal testing) but don’t provide input into alignment or how the pressure is distributed in the deeper body tissues or include the differences in physiology between people (pressure affects different people differently). There are a few more comments in post #2 here and post #4 here about pressure mapping systems.
They can be a useful tool for stores that have them available and where the results can translate into the specific mattress you are most interested in but they wouldn’t be the primary way I would make a purchase decision or be that useful if the mattress you are buying is different from the one you tested and the testing results can’t be easily “translated” into a mattress with a different design.
Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding … I greatly appreciate and value your questions, comments, and contributions to the forum and there is certainly nothing to apologize for.
The only reason for my caution is that one of the main goals of the site is to provide some “balance” between often complex and conflicting information and to help each person make their decisions based on their own personal experiences, preferences, and research (the difference between “how” to choose vs “what” to choose) and on the pros and cons of each of their choices rather than other people’s experiences (good or bad).
There are so many variables involved in each person’s purchase decision and preferences that sometimes too many posts that only include one person’s experiences or “regrets” can have an undue weight or influence for new members that may not yet fully realize that their own personal experiences may be completely different from anyone else.
I can’t thank you enough for all your guidance and insight.
That was good information on the pressure mapping. I won’t pursue that further as we don’t live anywhere near Calgary and there have been no local options that have offered it for their beds.
I finally had a look at NW Sleep and a long call with the owner. I think we will head down there this weekend and check them out. If they have something for us it would be good. Otherwise we will likely order from mattresses.com or the Discount Foam Store with Majestic still in the running.
Our local furniture company also just ordered in a bed from Renelle that has a 8" Dunlop firm core and a 2" Talalay topper with a 4.5 pound all wool cover. He estimates the price to be upwards of $2500, so that will be a factor for sure. I’m not sure that we really would need a support layer that thick and undoubtedly that will add to the cost.
I never had a clue that buying a mattress could be so complex, but we really want a worthwhile investment that will keep us both comfortable and sleeping as well as possible for many years to come. The biggest challenge for me is having my shoulders in a soft zone and my hips not sinking too much.
You might take a view of the FloBeds vzone. It might give you some options to tune your mattress that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Your remark about wanting special treatment of your shoulders vs hips reminded me of this. Alternatively, it might just be unnecessarily complex for you and not help your decision any
Also, I know the latex I have is zoned firmer in the middle area for hips vs softer upper area for shoulders. I don’t think all latex is the same in that respect (although it could be), so something you might ask of mattresses.net or others.
Today we drove down to NW Sleep in Delta. The owner was helpful and not pushy in the slightest.
I have been in more pain each night on a bad night so when we tried the latex pillow top called The Vale, I felt like I had landed in a cloud!
It has a 6" Ergonomic 5-zone 100% Talalay latex core
2 inches of 100% tala lay latex in the pillow top
4 inches of 100% Talalay latex in the support layers
(3) 3/4 " layers of high density foam - he couldn’t give me more detail about that.
They have a cotton cover on the showroom model but are switching to Bamboo.
The queen set is $2050.
We went back and forth between this and another few mattresses for quite a while but spent most of our time on this one. It seemed to keep us in good alignment and gave relief at the pressure points which are so sore right now - shoulders and hips. I was concerned this might be too soft for my husband but he insists he finds it comfortable and supportive.
We thought we had finally found our bed! But I find my upper back and shoulder exceptionally painful tonight. I’m not sure what it’s from. There is no "comfort warrantee " on this bed which is a bit disconcerting.
There was another model in the warehouse, I think called The Whistler, which was 100% natural Talalay but no pillow top. It felt okay, just a bit firm for me but now I wonder if a 3" Talalay topper or wool could make a difference? Thinking about what I’ve learned that you can only make a mattress softer not harder. The support core is important.
We are eager to make a decision, have been at this mattress search for several weeks now and have covered lots of KMs. Certainly would appreciate your input here, and if there are any red flags, please let me know!
These are all high quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress. The 3/4" layer of quilting foam is less than “around an inch or so” which I use as a guideline for lower density or unknown layers so this would be fine. It’s also good value for a queen set.
Every difference in construction, layer thickness, materials, or components in a mattress can make a difference yes which is why good testing can be so important. As you mentioned, if two choices appear to be close to equal it’s usually a good idea to choose the firmer of the two but I would sleep on a mattress for at least two weeks before considering any changes (because of the break in and adjustment period and because it’s easy for a night or two’s experience to be an anomaly). A 3" soft latex topper on a mattress that was already close to being a good “match” in terms of PPP would be on the risky side in terms of alignment because it would add a lot to the thickness and softness of the comfort layer and put you further away from the support layers. Wool can certainly add some pressure point relief and also has a “relaxed” surface “feel” and good temperature regulation that many people like and do very well with.
I don’t know why your shoulders or hips are sore but I would take your time and make sure as much as possible that your testing for PPP is as close a reflection of your actual sleeping experience as possible. I would be cautious about buying a mattress if you suspect that it is somehow related to your soreness until you’ve ruled out the possibility to your satisfaction.
