South Dakota Sleeper Needs Sleep!! Latex help...

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi, love the site – have been reviewing it for quite some time to help with my decision making. Purchased a Serta Eurotop 2+ years ago, however had sagged so badly, I finally returned it. Quite frankly, I replaced it short term with a Serta Perfect Sleeper Air Mattress set at extra firm, and sleep much better on that!! Past year of poor sleeping has allowed many hours to review your site! With my research so far, I’m leaning towards trying a latex mattress and had been looking primarily online. I am concerned though about purchasing without trying – both for the feel and firmness level so am now also considering B & M. We are located in Sioux Falls SD with nothing local, but we are actually heading to Minneapolis this weekend to lay on some at a couple places you had recommended and also may make a trip to Rochester to Rest Assured.

I’m a bigger guy – 5’11 around 225, fairly muscular but also the middle age belly. Am primarily a side/stomach sleeper – actually a hybrid of both – three quarter side/quarter stomach at the same time, with one leg normally elevated by/over a body pillow or spouse . I do flip sides quite often throughout the night. Have had lower back pain in the past due a kayaking accident but has mostly healed with the exception of minor pain when I lay for extremely long periods (9 hrs) or certain exercises. I also am allergic/bothered my chemical smells – perfume, fresheners, laundry soap, etc – so use mostly scent free items.

Couple areas of focus I’m trying to decide are:

Although I’m leaning towards all latex, I’m still trying to decide if that would benefit me the most or if I should consider a latex/coil system.
Firmness – I’m fairly confused about firmness levels so am hoping that my trip this weekend may alleviate that. I think I like firm better, but do sleep very well on the Marriott hotel beds as well and they seem softer.
Make up – if Talay or Dunlop (or combo) would be better with my size, sleeping pattern and smell aversion.
King or Queen – if one has benefits other than size (wasn’t sure if the latex was more durable in one piece vs. 2 for instance)
Wool or cotton or bamboo for covers

In addition to the places in Mpls (Moss Envy, Original Mattress Factory, Gabberts, & RoomandBoard) & Rochester, I’ve narrowed the internet manufactures to 2 main ones listed below. I had also previously looked at Custom Sleep Design and received a quote and analysis from them (however seems like they are not in business or responding any longer) and Flobed, however, I feel they are out of my price range.

Brooklyn Bedding – focusing on either the 10" Essence or 10" Total Latex. Also looked at DreamFoam however looks like the BB has a longer return period. Seems the Essence is supposed to be all natural with wool layer, and cotton top vs. the Total Latex with mixture and a bamboo top.

Arizona Premium Mattress Company – looking at a variety from the Ultra Plush Adjustable, Naturalux, to the Natural All Organic but also noticed they have a DIY system for a period of time which looks very affordable in comparison, although I’m not sure of the components.

I realize I’ve written way too much, and a lot of my decision will have to be subjective based upon what is comfortable, however am open to any advice, information or even recommendations on which vendors or mattresses would be better for my situation.

And again, thank you so much for a great site – makes life easier for geeks such as myself that like to research as much as possible!

2

Hi DakotaMagnum,

You’ve probably seen this but just in case you haven’t the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Sioux Falls area are in posts #2 and #3 here.

I personally wouldn’t rule anything out until your testing clearly indicates that a particular type of mattress isn’t your preference.

There are different types of firmness/softness depending on whether you are talking about surface softness, pressure relief softness, support firmness/softness, or just an overall subjective sense of firmness/softness (see post #15 here) but with your higher weight I would suspect you may need firmer support layers for good alignment but the comfort layers may be more of a preference in terms of thickness and softness but again your careful and objective testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post will give you a much better idea of the type of mattress that is the best match for you in terms of PPP. Here again I wouldn’t try and figure it out ahead of time based on specs.

This would also be a preference issue much more than a “better/worse” issue. There is more about the different types of latex in post #6 here and more about some of the differences in how they may “feel” for you in post #7 here but once again your own testing is the best way to know which one you may prefer. While both of them are very “safe” materials in terms of VOC’s and harmful substances (all the latex you are likely to enounter has been tested for both through Oeko Tex or Eco-Institut) there is more about the typical odor of Dunlop and Talalay in post #2 here but whether you may be sensitive to the smell of one or the other would also be a personal issue.

If the mattress design is the same then there wouldn’t be any difference in durability although having more room can often play a role in how well someone sleeps. There is more about wool and other types of quilting layers vs a stretch knit cover in post #12 here and the posts it links to. There is also more about some of the differences between bamboo and cotton fabrics in post #7 here and post #11 here (which are mostly about sheets but would be relevant to mattress covers as well).

It may also be worth considering diynaturalbedding in Crystal, MN which also carries component latex mattresses that can be customized.

All the vendors you are considering (including the two members of the site that sell latex mattresses online which compete well with the best in the industry) could certainly make good choices but as you “hopefully” know your own personal testing and/or more detailed conversations with the online manufacturers you are considering is the only way to make a choice between them (see post #2 here) based on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

3

Thanks so much!! So after a few weeks and a few miles :S , I have a better idea of what I’m looking at. Quick follow up of visits:

Moss Envy - Savvy Rest: Top 2 beds I liked were very similar with the exception of the top layer. Both had lower 2 levels of Dunlop but different top. Both laid very nice and couldn’t tell much difference although felt I liked the all Dunlop a little more.

Top Dunlop 3" 22-30 ild or Talalay 3" 20-24 ild
Med Dunlop 3" 31-39 ild
Base Dunlop 3" 40+ ild

Would like to note that I really did like their separate wool topper (standard weight). Looks like it was a Natures Comfort made at St Peters Minn Woolen Mill. Contemplated buying that for another bed to see if that will provide a good comfort source for less $

RoomandBoard (Restwell?) –
Top 3 beds in order of preference were:
Encased coil ultra-plush
Encased coil natural – felt about the same as the ultra-plush but felt ultra-plush was a little more supportive
Natural Latex – didn’t like as much initially – almost felt too firm, but after laying on for an extended time, belt better

Original Mattress Factory
Top 3 beds in order were:
Serenity Latex - High density polyfoam core (26-24 ild 2.5 lb/ft density), Talatech Talalay Latex – dual comfort foam topper (16-22 ild, 3 lb/ft and 21-27 ild 3.25 lb/ft)
Ortho Eurotop
Ortho Premier super pillow top

Very busy store, but salesman was attentive and knowledgeable.

I will also note we did visit Gabberts and laid on an Aierloom Exquisite luxtop which felt amazing – however the price was amazing too - $10k!!! Oh, to win the lottery… but then I might visit Vi Springs in Chicago if that dream were to happen!!

Rest Assured – Rochester – Visited this past weekend, and was very very impressed with their customer service, patience and knowledge. Cannot say enough about their service!

Royal Indulgence Plush – liked a lot
Quantum – liked this however felt just a bit too hard underneath
Cirrus Latex – liked this as well, but almost felt too soft – they thought perhaps of the coil system
After quite a few hours narrowed it down to

Returned after a few hour break, and decided I liked the Royal Indulgence the best, but then Liz threw a wrench in… she brought out what would be a Blue Moon Latex Euro Top - the same 918 coils, with latex and different toppers – I asked her to add a 3rd inch of latex and really liked that. Also liked the idea of the wool topper instead of the foam and that was consistent with the Royal.

Blue Moon
918 coils
Talalay Latex – 3 inches (2" + 1") (all three inches were 14 ild)
1" Wool topper with cotton backing – but this has CHANNEL QUILTING –not sure if that matters?

Royal Indulgence
918 coils
2" Marshall Microcoils
2" Talalay Latex – 14 ild
1" wool topper – (with what Id refer to as normal? Quilting)

I really did like both of these beds –still just a little confused still about all latex, vs latex/coil, vs latex/micorcoil. The beds were about the same price as the microcoil Indulgence is a floor model (built in 2012) otherwise that would normally be about $600+ higher. I was tempted to buy that because of the convenience of taking it home rather than driving back 3 ½ hours or waiting a month for a build, and the $600 savings, but decided to sleep on it to ensure I was covering all angles.

After all my visits everywhere, I’ve confirmed I do like the feel of latex, however am somewhat confused still as to all Latex over Latex Coil hybrid as I seemed to flip between stores. I know everything is subjective, but in your expert opinion with the different rankings of beds l liked, was anything apparent popping into your mind that I’m not able to see?

As far as the beds at Rest Assured and the difference between micro coil and 3" latex:
Do you feel one would hold up better over time vs the other?
Is the microcoil better a better value due to the coils?
Any concern on buying a floor model?

I had also looked at Comfort King in Sioux Falls about a year ago but had kind of ruled them out in my initial search, but feel I should at least visit them again as they build similar to Rest Assured. They also actually incorporate a zipper aspect which I like the idea of in case of the need to switch out. I am not sure at this point of the quality of their materials or if they can provide anything similar but feel I should look especially considering they are only a few miles away.

Still have not totally ruled out online either as I think there are good options (I even noticed that Arizona Premium Mattress company had a do it yourself option currently with some overstock they bought and that really looked interesting considering the price)

I briefly looked at 2 options – each with 4" of comfort layers in either Queen or King:

Talalay Latex Base
Blended Talalay Topper 3 # 19ild
Blended Talalay 1" soft topper
Wool Zippered Mattress Cover
Or
Talalay Latex Base
Talalay Blended Topper 2" 22ild
Talalay Blended Topper 2" 22ild
Wool Zippered Mattress Cover

Any thoughts on any of my rambling would be appreciated!!

Chris

4

Hi DakotaMagnum,

Almost all of the mattresses you are considering use good quality materials however there are a few of them that I would want more information about the materials inside them to make sure there were no weak links and to be able to make more meaningful comparisons.

[b]RoomandBoard (Restwell?) –

Encased coil ultra-plush[/b]

I would want to know the density of the polyfoam layers in this mattress. I believe they use 1.2 lb polyfoam (which I would want to confirm) which could be a weak link in this mattress.

[b]Original Mattress Factory

Ortho Eurotop
Ortho Premier super pillow top[/b]

I would want to know the specifics of the layers and foam densities in these mattresses as well. While I believe they are inside the guidelines I would use (1.5 lb polyfoam in a two sided mattress) … I would want to know the specifics to make more meaningful comparisons. Even though a two sided mattress is more durable than an equivalent one sided mattress (see post #3 here) … if the 1.5 lb polyfoam layers on each side are fairly thick and they are on the bottom end of the quality/density guidelines I would use, then you would likely have some body impressions over time although they would be much less than a one sided mattress and would also be less likely to have a significant effect on PPP.

I would definitely want to know the specifics of the materials in this mattress because there could be some weak links and in spite of the price (or the “showroom feel” or “looks”) some of the materials may be lower quality and less durable than some of the other mattresses you are considering.

Other than these … none of the mattresses you are considering have any weak links or cautions and I would remove durability as a factor and put most of your emphasis on which one was the best match for you in terms of PPP and the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

This would be a preference based on how it feels to you. Channel quilting can have a little bit plusher feel as the wool isn’t compressed as much and is lofted more than “regular quilting” although some people may not like that the sleeping surface is less even or on occasion will mention that they can “feel” the bumps and valleys. I would make this a preference choice.

[quote]As far as the beds at Rest Assured and the difference between micro coil and 3" latex:
Do you feel one would hold up better over time vs the other?[/quote]

Microcoils are a very durable component and I would choose between them based on PPP … not based on durability.

Only if it’s a better “match” for you in terms of PPP.

Not with a better manufacturer such as Rest Assured but it would also depend on the tradeoffs involved (the savings, how it compares to the Blue Moon in terms of PPP, whether it comes with a warranty, and whether you would lose any of the other benefits that comes with a new mattress such as their 6 month firmness guarantee).

This would probably be a good idea since they are so close and I believe they are also transparent about the type and quality of the materials they use in their mattresses so you could make some meaningful comparisons.

Your online options with Arizona Premium are also of course high quality/value options and once you have talked with Arizona Premium in more detail then the one that you believe you would prefer out of the two would also be well worth including as one of your finalists.

With the exception of the comments I made at the beginning of this post (if any of these mattresses are still in the running) you are down to final choices between good and good and since there are no “bad choices” in the group and if there isn’t a clear winner then which one is “best for you” would depend on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

You’ve done some great research and you have some very good options to choose from :slight_smile:

Phoenix

5

Good evening, thanks for your feedback. I’ve contacted a number of other online options and also visited Comfort King twice. While I was impressed with Comfort King and think they are a very good company, I was still much more impressed with Rest Assured and there customer service, which to me would be worth the distance.

I also visited with Arizona Premium Mattress and Brooklyn Bedding and was impressed with both as well - both from customer service and knowledge. At BB I was considering the Essence in medium ($2149), and at Arizona Premium Mattress it was the Natural Talalay with bamboo/wool cover in Med/Firm ($1650). Between the two, I was leaning more towards the APM primarily due to the price point - seems as if it’s a very similar mattress at a significant savings.

That being noted, and even though I like the idea of a full latex, I still am leaning towards the Rest Assured mattress, primarily the floor model with the Leggett & Platt 918 coils, 2 inch micro coils and the 2" of Talalay, 14 ild, wool topper. The price point is very similar and just slightly about the APM - but would include the box spring as well.

The main reason being is that I’m still a little concerned regarding not being able to lay on the online versions of the full latex and having to deal with trying to identify the best firmness, or having to swap out the layers.

My main concern with the Rest Assured mattress is the 14 ild top layer. It lay very comfortable when I tested it; however it seems that in a number of posts I’ve read here, that 14 ild may be too soft for someone of my size (230 lbs)? Should I be concerned with that or will the addition of the micro coils compensate for that?

Finally, besides the ppp, is there any reason in your opinion I would want to consider a full latex without having the opportunity to lay on it vs. a coil system I have? And yes, I realize that is subject to my opinion and preference, however I’m more curious if you feel the benefits of full latex are that much stronger than that of the coil system, and which I might want to do so?

6

Hi DakotaMagnum,

I completely understand this. The large majority of people buy their mattress locally and there are many people that are hesitant to make an online purchase regardless of any of the return or exchange policies that can reduce the risk and this is all part of each person’s personal value equation.

Latex is the most durable of all the foam materials but softer versions of any material will be less durable and soften more rapidly over time under higher weights and the areas of the greatest weight concentration. Having said that … there are only 2" of the 14 ILD latex (which is just on the edge of the guidelines of “around an inch or so” I would use if the 2" layer was a lower quality material) so because it’s not very thick and because latex is a more durable material the effects of any foam softening will be less than if the 14 ILD layer was thicker or the material was lower quality. Based on the overall construction of the mattress and the quality of the materials along with Chuck’s many years of experience and customer feedback I think you will be fine and I wouldn’t consider it a weak link in the mattress.

I also tend to cautious with comfort layers (of any type) that are quite thick and/or soft for people in heavier weight ranges because it can sometimes lead to alignment issues if the heavier areas of the body (such as the pelvis) sink in too far relative to the other lighter areas of the body. If careful and objective testing indicates that your alignment is good on the mattress in all your sleeping positions then this wouldn’t be an issue either. It’s a caution I mention to make sure you have tested the mattress carefully for PPP and not just for “comfort”.

A latex mattress has a completely different type of “feel” and response than other types of components so a desire to test latex to see how it feels for you would be the biggest reason I can think of to test an all latex mattress. The type of materials you prefer really are a preference issue and the only way to know how you feel about an all latex mattress would be your own testing or experience. This would be the biggest reason to choose any material or mattress design.

The materials and components in your mattress are good quality and durable and while an all latex mattress may last longer overall than other types of materials and components … the long term durability of a mattress is only one of many parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase and for me PPP would be more important than durability (although one doesn’t exclude the importance of the other). I would rather have a mattress that didn’t last quite as long but that I liked better or slept better than a mattress that lasted a little longer that I didn’t like as much or sleep as well. Latex is also more costly and there are certainly people who would prefer the “feel” and performance of the mattress you have over an all latex mattress.

In other words … if you have found a mattress that you really like and is a great choice for you in terms of PPP and if after reading about the pros and cons of latex in articles such as this it doesn’t seem that important to you to continue your research into other types of mattresses … then it probably isn’t.

Phoenix

7

Hi Phoenix, wanted to check in for a couple quick questions. First off I ended up going with Royal Indulgence from Rest Assured and have loved it so far! Has great comfort, held up nicely and we are way more than satisfied with the bed and the customer service.
Which leads me to my question - we are looking at buying a 2nd one and just wanted your thoughts on purchasing the same mattress without returning to lay on it due to the distance. I work in a different location during the week where I have the original bed, and now need to replace the bed in our weekend location. All the components will be the same with possibly the exception of the topper - our current one has the wool topper but the new one currently had cotton and 1 inch of foam.

I’m assuming since I’ve been very satisfied with the current bed, its not a big deal to buy without trying?

They will swap out the cotton topper with wool if I like for an additional charge ($100) - do you think that is worth it? We are both hot sleepers so am leaning towards that route but was curious of your opinion, realizing personal preference will play a part.

Thanks again for such a great site!

8

Hi DakotaMagnum,

As you probably know from your reading here I think highly of Chuck and Rest Assured and I think you made a great choice … congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

[quote]Which leads me to my question - we are looking at buying a 2nd one and just wanted your thoughts on purchasing the same mattress without returning to lay on it due to the distance. I work in a different location during the week where I have the original bed, and now need to replace the bed in our weekend location. All the components will be the same with possibly the exception of the topper - our current one has the wool topper but the new one currently had cotton and 1 inch of foam.

I’m assuming since I’ve been very satisfied with the current bed, its not a big deal to buy without trying?

They will swap out the cotton topper with wool if I like for an additional charge ($100) - do you think that is worth it? We are both hot sleepers so am leaning towards that route but was curious of your opinion, realizing personal preference will play a part.[/quote]

Every layer and component in a mattress can affect all the other layers and components and can make a difference in how it feels and performs “as a whole” so I would talk with Rest Assured about any difference that the toppers will make in the feel and performance of the mattress since they will be more familiar with how they compare than I am and then I would make my choice based on the results of the conversation with them. If I was in your shoes though I would choose exactly the same mattress with the same wool topper as you currently have both because wool is such a great temperature regulator and also because you can be confident that it will feel and perform the same as the mattress you currently have so you wouldn’t need to go there and test it again since it’s the same as what you have.

While different people may have very different ideas about the criteria that are most important to them … if it was me then the benefits of the wool and the confidence that comes with knowing that the mattress will be the same as the one I already own and that I know works well for me would be well worth the extra $100.

Phoenix

9

Hi, just wanted to let you know we did end up buying mattress from Rest Assured again - they did switch out the top to wool, and it’s working out great - sleeps just as the other one as we expected. Kind of funny as when we were there we noticed a name brand high dollar mattress they were cutting up to show the difference - and you could clearly see it!

I cannot say enough about Chuck, Liz and their team - they remembered us after well over a year, were very patient with our questions, and just made the whole experience great. In fact we ended up buying an additional twin bed, and another queen for a camper! We could have gotten all locally in Sioux Falls however the service and quality has been so great, it’s been well worth the drive!

10

Hi DakotaMagnum,

Thanks for the updates … and congratulations on all your new mattresses :slight_smile:

If I was in your shoes I probably would have done exactly what you did and dealt with a manufacturer I had come to know and trust as well.

Phoenix

11

Hi, had a quick question about 2 wool mattress protectors - looking at the Foam Sweet Foam Natural Mattress Pad or the St Dormeir Mattress Protector. Do you know which one would be thicker? Thanks for any help! Chris

12

HI DakotaMagnum,

The Foam Sweet Foam Natural Mattress Pad is .5" thick, as listed on their web site. I called FloBeds, and the St. Dormeir Wool Mattress Protector is .25" thick. Wool will compress approximately 30% over its life, so neither of these items will be very thick over time. The job of a protector is to be thin and to minimally impact the surface comfort of a mattress. While the Natural Mattress Pad is a bit thicker, it would be closer to a mattress protector in function, with the primary goal of keeping the mattress clean, as opposed to offering much additional comfort, which would be more the scope of a wool topper.
ADMIN NOTE: Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: foamsweetfoam.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=79

Phoenix

13

Thank you, I appreciate the quick response. I’m looking at it as more of a protector but thought I might go whichever one was a little thicker knowing it would compress some over time, so will try the foam sweet foam one and see how it does!. Thanks again!

14

Hi DakotaMagnum,

Thanks for the reply. Let us know what you think of the cover once you’ve had a chance to try it for a while.

Phoenix