Spindle Abscond, Arizona Mattress Adjustable Ultra Plush or DIY

[phoenix]

Hi PLH123,

Based on my research concerning comfort, support, and durability, I’ve narrowed my purchase decision to a latex mattress. Within the latex options, I’m not sure which direction I should go. I would appreciate any specific advice that could be offered to help me make a final choice.

It’s not possible to provide specific advice because there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in which mattress or material or mattress design would be “best” for you and this can be very different for different people.

There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and there is also more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses but the most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is always how well it “matches” your specific needs and preferences and the only way to know this is based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience.

It is my understanding that the Mountain Top natural latex continuous pour process is not exactly the same as the traditional 100% natural dunlop process. As a result, their method offers a greater variance of ILD options, including softer ILDs, and also provides more consistency within the latex overall. If true, do you believe the Mountain Top process is a new and improved method for dunlop, especially for those customers who want more consistency within the latex and/or a softer matress?

All methods of latex manufacturing have improved over the years and are more consistent than they used to be so while it’s a “newer” method of producing Dunlop latex and it’s also more commonly available in softer versions than molded Dunlop and will often be more consistent as well (although you will sometimes see molded Dunlop in densities in the 65 kg/m3 range which is also quite soft) … none of this translates into being “better” unless there is an actual difference between two materials that you can feel or prefer in “real life” and these types of comparisons are often more of a “theoretical exercise” that often isn’t as important as most people may believe it is when they are doing their initial research. Like most other Dunlop it will also tend to have a softer and a firmer side and have the “feel” of Dunlop latex. If you tend to prefer Dunlop latex over Talalay latex then I think that the other factors that would be involved in deciding which mattress would be “best” for you would probably be more important than whether it was made using a continuous pour or a molded Dunlop process. Both can make very suitable and durable mattresses either by themselves or in combination with other types and blends of latex. I personally would treat the choice between different types and blends of latex as a preference and/or a budget choice not a “better/worse” choice which isn’t really the case in most people’s “real life” experience.

I like the idea of having 3 separate latex layers because of the adjustments that can be made to find the right fit. In addition, Spindle also offers a 365 day comfort exchange for a flat $150. It appears that one is not required to send back any of the three layers of the original purchase which would allow even more comfort options moving forward. I would originally select the medium firmness but would like the option of adding a soft latex layer of natural dunlop if I see the need, especially if the continuous pour process actually makes a difference in the soft layer compared to other dunlop options.

The ability to rearrange or exchange layers (or purchase a new layer at a very reduced cost in the case of Spindle) is certainly one of the advantages of a component latex mattress but each manufacturer will have differences in their exchange or return policies and some of them would be more attractive to some people and some will be more attractive to others so which one is “best” depends on each person’s criteria and their confidence that one of the configurations that are available will be suitable for them. There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable “match” for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here.

I noticed that Spindle previously offered a synthetic dunlop option. The owner of Spindle said he thought so much of the synthetic option that he sleeps on one himself but dropped synthetic dunlop because of marketplace demand. His opinion of synthetic dunlop struck me as interesting considering the general view I keep reading is that natural dunlop is far superior to synthetic.

Is natural dunlop really that superior or is much of the consensus more about marketing and theoretical differences compared to actual real life experiences? I don’t mind paying more for an improved product that will be more comfortable, supportive and longer lasting, but I don’t like the idea of paying an extra $500 just so I can say I bought a natural product if it isn’t actually an improvement I will actually notice over time. I could always pick the Ultimate Dreams Freedom for much less than the Abscond, though I don’t want to buy an admittedly inferior product just to save a little money. Quality counts assuming it isn’t mostly marketing speak.

This would depend entirely on how you defined “superior”. It has been Oeko-Tex tested for harmful substances and VOC’s using the same testing protocols as 100% natural Dunlop so it’s certainly safe and it would be in a similar range in terms of durability to other types and blends of latex (all latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam materials). You can read more about synthetic continuous pour Dunlop latex in post #2 here and there is more about natural rubber and synthetic rubber in post #2 here but once again it will come down to a preference and budget choice and whether a mattress that uses any type or blend of latex will be a good match for you in terms of PPP and the options you have available if it isn’t. There are many people that prefer natural or even organic latex for “personal” reasons that believe it’s “better” but if you ask them why it’s better their answers will often be based on opinions that don’t have real evidence to support them.

Option 2: Arizona Mattress Adjustable Ultra Plush Latex Sleep System (Blended): 1 6" layer in halves + 2" or 3" topper + 1.5 inches wool and cotton cover. $1135 + shipping for 2" topper after coupon or $1216 + shipping for 3" topper after coupon.

I might choose a Talalay mattress over a pure dunlop all other things being equal (especially for the top layer) because of the comfort properties of Talalay compared to dunlop (though the continuous pour process of Mountain Top appears to lessen the differences between Talalay and natural dunlop for lower ILDs).

You can read more about Dunlop (of either type) vs Talalay latex in post #7 here but the most reliable way to know which type of latex you tend to prefer will be based on your own testing or personal experience.

My primary concern with the Adjustable Ultra Plush is that it comes in two core halves (their ultra plush full layers are not available to ship outside of Arizona). What difference would this make for a single person compared to a latex bed not divided in half? I understand how two sleepers might prefer the ability to have two different firmness levels based on personal preference, but would a single person notice a difference sleeping in the middle of the mattress between two halves?

If a mattress has split layers that have the same firmness on each side and with a comfort layer on top of it and a quilted cover you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a split layer or a solid layer of the same firmness.

3 3" layers (the Abscond) provides more adjustable firmness options over a 6" layer + a topper (Arizona Adjustable). I’m not sure if it matters if I can get the firmness I want right to start, but if it’s not the way I want it, the 3 layers would probably make it easier for me to get the exact firmness I want. Arizona offers what appears to be a 60 day layer exchange for the cost of shipping both ways. The Abscond seems to offer a better deal because one gets to keep the original layers and the extra layer for a flat $150 extra. Someone correct me if I’m wrong with the policy of either manufacturer.

You are correct on all counts as far as I know and the only other difference is that Arizona Premium also has a return/refund policy.

My general question is whether most consumers actually prefer Talalay over natural dunlop over the long run and is it worth it to most consumers to pay just a little more. If the reported improvements with the Mountain Top continuous pour dunlop process bring the dunlop closer to the talalay in real world performance (especially at the medium firmness levels), then the Abscond may be a better value proposition.

Again these are preference choices. I personally prefer the “feel” of Talalay for example while my daughter much prefers the feel of Dunlop which is what she purchased (she tested both). When it comes to these types of choices where there isn’t a better or a worse then your own preferences will always be more important than the preferences of others. In the past there were probably more people that preferred the “feel” of Talalay comfort layers than Dunlop but with softer Dunlop being more commonly available I would guess that the percentages are more even than they were in the past.

Option 3: DIY

What about simply buying three 3" layers of the exact same size of latex from an internet dealer and then also buying a similar wool/cotton cover to the ones offered on the Abscond and the Arizona adjustable? For example, Flexus Comfort offers natural Talalay toppers (22-24 soft or 28 medium) without covers for $335 each with free shipping. If I can buy a similar cover to the ones offered by Arizona and Abscond for approximately $300, other than comfort exchange policies, how would that be any different than purchasing a latex mattress such as the Abscond or the Arizona Adjustable Plus? The cost would be roughly the same and I would have to put together each of these mattresses just the same.

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

If you decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed are a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point (the same type and blend of latex in the same thickness and firmness levels and a very similar cover which can also make a significant difference to the feel and performance of a mattress) or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).

I would always keep in mind that the only way to know for certain whether any mattress, material, or design will work well for you will be based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience. You are certainly looking at some good options but nobody else can tell you which one would be “best” for you because it will always depend on your risk tolerance, your preferences, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

When you are down to finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and none of them have any weak links or lower quality materials in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing, your conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, the prices, the exchange or return options you have after a purchase, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix