Stearns and Foster Replacement - Can anyone Help????

I’ve read SO MUCH on this site, and many others, as well. While they’ve been very helpful, I’m still undecided on what to do. Because S & F gets such low ratings on their products, I am apprehensive to give them another penny of my money due to the extreme disappointment of my current mattress. I did check and it will cost me an additional $293 for the upgrade to the Estate Line, plus $140 delivery for the new mattress. Don’t know if it’s worth it to give S & F another $450. It feels like extortion to me - We’ll take care of you when your original purchase fails, but it’s going to cost you.

If I go with the Susie, Luxury Firm Euro Pillowtop, I feel that I might be getting the same level of softness (and excessive sag) which has been a problem with the Duval Street, hence the reason for the Ultra Firm consideration. Does harder equal less sag?

I know you can only make suggestions, which I really appreciate, but if I were your sister and was on a limited budget, would you suggest saving for an upgrade from a different manufacturer in a few years (or less) to perhaps latex, or biting the bullet now and paying the extra $450?

I’ve spent HOURS searching online to find a solution to this dilemma and am hoping for some direction. Thank you very much for your response.

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for your input - it is most appreciated.

I have read post #1 and #2. They were helpful, but as you state in post #2, the manufacturers, especially Sealy/Stearns is unwilling to offer to the consumer the padding content. So while you’re getting padding, exactly what quality of padding is it?

I think right now I’m leaning toward going back to the store, lying on the ultra firm again and making a decision as to if I think it will be too firm. Or I can go with the Euro Pillowtop in the Susie model and hopefully I’ll have the same comfort/support I had as the Duval for a year or two before that breaks down - which I know it will. That will also give me time to research a better mattress without the feeling that I gave into S & F extortion tactics.

My husband is leaning toward the ultra firm, so in the event that is our choice, could you recommend a good quality latex topper? That may be the best option for both of us at this point. He’ll have the firmness he likes and I’ll have a bit of softness. Hopefully we can live with that until we find a better option. Oh, how I long for the days of the flip-able mattress like the 14 year old Beautyrest that I have in my guest bedroom. If it weren’t only a full it would still be my bed - ah, the comfort!

Thank you to everyone who has offered assistance. I really appreciate your help.

Hi Buttermint,

Jeff’s suggestions are great and the firm or ultra firm S&F mattresses generally have the least amount of polyfoam which is the material that will soften and impress most quickly. Marvelux one of their higher density foams and is generally better quality than the other polyfoams they use. When you can’t find out the quality/density of the materials in the comfort layers of a mattress you are exchanging for … then you would likely be better off to minimize the use of lower quality or unknown materials in the comfort layers and exchanging for a much firmer mattress with the least possible amount of polyfoam (possibly too firm to be comfortable for you) and then add a higher quality topper instead if you need it. This way you are adding your own comfort layer that you know would be good quality and it will also extend the life of the top layers of materials in the mattress as well.

One other advantage of this approach (mattress plus a topper if you need it) is that a mattress with less polyfoam will generally be less costly as well.

The Susie is apparently the same as the Josette and you can see the details of the ultra firm here.

In the Estate collection you can see an example of Jeff’s suggestion of the Level P ultra firm Twila here.

Both of these would be in the range of the type of firmness and thinner polyfoam layers that would have less risk of foam softening than softer mattresses that use thicker layers of foam.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

One last question before I make a final decision. Below are the specifications of foam/padding as found online:

Ultra Firm Josette/Susie - Comfort level 1.5 out of 10 - 1 being softest 10 hardest
1" HD Foam
1" Marvelux
.5 Memory Foam

Luxury Firm Josette/Susie Euro Pillowtop - Comfort Level 3.5 out of 10
2" HD Foam
Versare - no amount given nor any definition of what Versare contains.
0.5 Memory Foam

Luxury Firm Josette/Susie Tight Top - Comfort level 4 out of 10
2" HD Foam
.5 Memory Foam

The more I read about the Ultra Firm, the more apprehensive I am about that particular model. They state if you are comfortable sleeping on the floor, this will be similar. Sleeping on the floor is super painful to my hips. Out of the other 2, what might be better? They are SO similar I can’t understand why they even made two separate models. We currently have the Duval Street Euro Pillow Top and got 2 years of comfort, Josette is the replacement of the Duval Street. In your opinion would you go with the Euro - what we already have - or the tight top? I can’t figure out the difference.

Also, what is the difference between HD Foam and Memory Foam? Is one better than the other? I know whatever I choose, I am going to have to purchase a new mattress in a couple of years, but until then, would harder be better?

As always, I appreciate you taking your valuable time to assist me. Thank you!

Hi Buttermint,

the idea behind choosing an ultra firm mattress such as this would be that you could choose a topper that would give you the “omfort” that you need instead of choosing a mattress that ws already “comfortable” but used lower quality foams in the top layers and have a higher risk of softening and breaking down too quickly. In other words you would be buying a mattress as part of a mattress / topper sleeping system rather than sleeping directly on the mattress.

If you decide to take the approach of just buying a mattress then your own personal testing will tell you which one is the best match for your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) but you would be taking the risk that the thicker softer layers in the mattress are lower quality and less durable materials and you would lose the comfort and support which was the reason you chose it in the first place much more quickly.

A topper can give you the “comfort” you need, can be more durable than lower quality materials that are already in a mattress, and will also increase the durability of the top layers of the mattress below it.

If the topper softens or breaks down sooner than the rest of the mattress then you can just replace the topper instead of the whole mattress.

The less lower quality materials there are in your “sleeping system” … especially in the top layers … the longer the useful life of a mattress.

HD foam is polyfoam which is a fast response and resilient foam that responds to pressure. Memory foam is a slow response foam that responds to temperature, humidity, time, and pressure. The biggest factor in the quality and durability of either one is its density but in most cases they don’t disclose the information about the quality of their materials. There is much more information about the different types of materials and components used in mattress comfort and support layers in the tutorial post here and the links inside it.

All foams have a range of quality which is more or less durable and the choice between good quality memory foam and good quality polyfoam would be based on personal preference but “good quality” is important in either case for durability and this is the part of their mattress specs that they don’t disclose and can be very difficult to find out which is why it’s best to minimize the thickness of lower quality or “unknown quality” materials in a mattress and then add your own comfort layer in the form of a topper if you need more pressure relief and softness.

Make sure you include all the materials in both the comfort layers and the quilting layers when you are assessing how much polyfoam is in the upper layers of the mattress (not just the comfort layers).

Versare is the fabric used under the Eurotop layer in between the Eurotop and the mattress and isn’t a foam so it doesn’t need to be included as part of your assessment.

Phoenix

I just got the Glenda (Twilla) and it is too hard for me as a side sleeper. I am 6’ 2 and 230 though.

Hi stack,

I’m not surprised that the ultra firm Twila is too firm for you but it is one of the Stearns & Foster models that has the least amount of lower quality/density polyfoam in the comfort layers. While I normally wouldn’t suggest any Stearns & Foster mattress because they tend to be lower quality and value than many other options from smaller manufacturers that are available in the market … they can be a good base mattress for adding your own comfort layer in the form of a topper. It would be a reasonable choice for those who need to exchange a mainstream mattress and don’t have the ability to make a better quality/value choice from other manufacturers and can only choose a major brand or Sealy / Stearns & Foster mattress and want to minimize the amount of lower quality materials in a mattress for durability reasons.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix

The funny thing is this is a Glenda Plush. It does not seem to conform at all. I have added 2" of a semi firm poly under my old 2" of soft latex. Im clueless as to what to change or add. I think the latex is too soft and maybe I need just a 2" denser latex or maybe 3?

The coils have no give and this results in a stiff push back.

Stack

Hi stack,

If you have the Glenda Plush (Twila plush) it isn’t a latex mattress at all and as you can see here it has over 6" of polyfoam in the upper layers and the only latex is a fairly meaningless .79" latex layer buried under the polyfoam.

I don’t know the specifics of the symptoms you are experiencing on the mattress, or the sleeping positions or areas of your body you are feeling them but overall I would say this could be a very risky construction for you because it would be potentially too soft. With your higher weight you may be “going through” the softer layers and feeling the firmness of some of the deeper layers (they don’t provide any information about the ILD of the layers) but with 6" of polyfoam, some fiber, and 3/4" of latex it’s not likely that any specific symptoms you are experiencing are pressure related and are more likely to be related to alignment issues.

If this is the case (the comfort layers are too thick and soft for your body type) then there really isn’t an effective solution for alignment issues because there really isn’t any way to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer by adding toppers (it would require replacing layers with firmer versions rather than adding to them). There is a little more about this in post #4 here and some of the other suggestions there may be helpful.

It may also be worthwhile removing any mattress pads or thicker mattress protectors that you may be using to see if these are interfering with the ability of the foam layers underneath to contour to your body.

If you really are experiencing pressure issues then you could try adding a 2" to 3" topper to better isolate you from the firmness of any layers that are causing pressure points but the odds of success would be low and you could be increasing the likelihood of alignment issues even more (there would be even more softer foam between you and the support layers of the mattress). At the very least I would make sure that the topper had a good return option in case it didn’t work for you so you don’t end up throwing good money after bad. Post #8 here has more about choosing a topper.

I wish I had better news but it appears to me that the basic design of the mattress may not be the best choice for you.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix

I had the firm Glenda and exchanged it for the plush version which does not feel much softer to me. Last night I experimented and folded my 2’ latex topper over so effectively it is almost 4" as a topper. It feels much better as I sleep on my side. Its a narrower space for me being 6’ 2’ and 230 but at least it is more comfortable - like sleeping on a single width mattress. Now I think I will look at Amazon for one or 2 inches of additional latex or maybe just a three incher. Then I can spread out on the queen size entirely

The latex seems to support better than the poly foam topper I have which i folded and put on the other side of my bed to kind of even things out. I have two toppers folded in half and side by side - yikes. The poly was underneath the 2’ topper but did not relieve pressure enough. What an experiment!

Stack

Hi Stack,

A thicker latex topper (in the range of 3" to 4") will absorb and spread out some of the compression forces before they reach the thicker layers of softer foam so it can make some difference to alignment (holding up the heavier parts of the body better) but it also means that the thicker layers of soft foam on top of your mattress that were meant for “comfort” will now be part of your support layers because they are deeper in the sleeping system so over time as they soften under the heavier parts of the body the topper will “bend” into the softer spots which could create alignment issues. This is why the firmer version would be a more suitable choice for a topper (there is less polyfoam to soften underneath you).

It can certainly make some difference and your own experience “trumps” any theory but the benefits may be partial or temporary. If it helps and improves your sleeping experience then it’s certainly preferable to a mattress that doesn’t work at all and if you end up with alignment issues down the road from the polyfoam softening then at least your latex toppers will still be in good condition.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix

Thank you for all your help. It will be interesting to see how much this mattress will soften. Anyway I ordered a 32ild 3 ’ from Brooklyn Bedding, so ill see if that gives good comfort.

Mario said he sold S&F and that it tends to be stiff even in a “Plush Version”.,. Man this thing aches! It is impossible to relax and sleep at all on this without a topper and 2inches of added poly plus my 7 year old 2’ tallalay helps a bit.

Stack

Hi stack,

I’m looking forward to hearing about how your topper combination works out for you … good luck :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix

I received my topper from Brooklyn Bedding and have sold my S @ F. Last night i slept on the floor with 2’ of poly, my older 2’ latex and the new 3" on top. Interesting how the feel of the latex changes on a harder surface. Of course the floor is too hard so I am thinking of putting a sheet of plywood on the box spring I still have and laying the layers on that. Any thoughts about a good foundation like a poly core? I wonder if the box spring will be a bit more forgiving as a core than the floor. I am in transition and maybe moving to Oregon.

Stack

Hi stack,

Yes …every layer of a mattress interacts with and affects the feel and performance of a mattress to different degrees. This includes differences in layer thickness, layer firmness/softness, and the type of material used. There is more about some of the “specs” that can affect the feel and response of a mattress in post #2 here. Sometimes even changing the thickness of some layers by an inch or other seemingly minor changes can make a significant difference in how a mattress feels when you are building your own mattress with a combination of layers you haven’t tested together (see post #7 here) This is all part of the “art and science” of mattress design and construction.

Plywood will be very similar to the floor because neither one has any give and the layers over the plywood or the floor will have more to do with what you feel than what type of non flexing support system is underneath them.

When you are building your own mattress then the most reliable “blueprint” would be a mattress that you test locally that “works” well for you (or a mattress that is made by an online manufacturer that they suggest would work well “on average” for someone of your body type, sleeping positions, or preferences) that you can use as a model. Other than that you will be reliant on trial and error and the learning curve that comes from your own personal experience and experimentation. I would also read post #15 here and post #2 here and post #5 here about building your own mattress and DIY designs.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix
You are right about trial and error and feel. I just changed my latex around putting the new 3’ from brooklyn on the bottom 32ild, followed by my older 2’ which is close in density. On top of that I have a walmart 4’ foam, 2 of which is memory foam. I took out the 2" of poly that I had used earlier. Even with the 4" of the walmart foam this rig feels better than my S&F. Now I need to consider a foundation and maybe ramp up the support layers a bit as there is just the 3’ of latex there at 32ild. Still get a bit of a back ache but that could be from the comfort layer walmart stuff made of 4". It helps my side sleeping though, much.

Interesting Huh? I wonder about maybe adding 2’ of soft latex on top instead of the walmart foam or a quality memory foam of 2 or 3 inches. That would be a hybrid of sorts.

Hi stack,

Your base layers (3" of 32 ILD and 2" of unknown ILD) may already be firm enough as a base layer. Thinner layers will “act” firmer because they get firmer with compression faster than thicker layers. If you were to add even firmer latex underneath this it would become softer because the foam you add would be softer than the floor. It would also have a wider range of compression and could be more adaptable to different sleeping positions or weights (see post #14 here).

Do you know the type or ILD of the 2" Talalay layer you have (and whether it’s actually Talalay or whether it’s softer or firmer than the 32 ILD)?

If it’s softer than the 32 then along with the 4" of “Walmart stuff” the upper layers could be too thick/soft which could be the cause of her back ache.

Yes … it’s always interesting to see how different people react to different combinations. Both of these would probably improve things and put her closer to the “support” layers which can improve alignment compared to the 4" of memory foam/polyfoam you have (which are probably fairly soft) but again it would depend to some degree on the firmness of the next layer down as well.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix

The 2" is Tallalay and it seems close to the 3" in density. It is probably 6 years old by now - how time flies. I will probably ditch the 4’ wal mart foam and try another type on top? It just is so hard without the foam in hand to know what to do.

The other factor is that I want to get my mattress off the floor eventually as I live in the country and a bug may eat me alive. So I am considering a slotted foundation and wonder what this will make things feel like after.

Hi stack,

[quote]The 2" is Tallalay and it seems close to the 3" in density. It is probably 6 years old by now - how time flies. I will probably ditch the 4’ wal mart foam and try another type on top? It just is so hard without the foam in hand to know what to do.

The other factor is that I want to get my mattress off the floor eventually as I live in the country and a bug may eat me alive. So I am considering a slotted foundation and wonder what this will make things feel like after.[/quote]

If you are using non flexing rigid slats and they are at least 3" apart (preferably less) then a foundation would feel the same as having the mattress on the floor because neither of them would flex under the mattress.

If your 2" layer is softer than the 32 ILD then I would use it over the 32 ILD Talalay and I would be cautious with how much more soft layers you add on top. I would probably try sleeping just on the 2 Talalay layers by themselves and then add a topper using your experience on the two layers in combination with the guidelines in post #8 here as a reference point.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!