Stiff neck - KD Gabrielle mattress too soft?

[phoenix]

Hi Or,

To begin with, I still have back pain sleeping but a little bit less each night. So from night to night (4 nights so far) I improve in sleep, but only in tiny steps. I presume this is a good sign - but can I trust it as indicator of a good match in the long run?

Second, after a few nights of sleep, the new mattress is not quite as soft as in the store. not much firmer, but still - does that change typically in time?

There is no way to know this for sure and not knowing the specifics of the layers in the Gabrielle and more details about your body type and sleeping positions (although you seem to be a side/back sleeper) makes this difficult to predict as well but there are two things happening at the same time here.

The first is that the mattress is “breaking in” and the foams in the upper layers of your mattress are softening, fibers are compressing, and materials are stretching. All of these together will typically mean that the comfort layers will get softer than they are when the mattress is new. The amount of initial foam softening will depend very much on the layers in the mattress (which they are unlikely to tell you except very generically) and lower density polyfoam and memory foam will soften more initially than higher density polyfoam and memory foam which in turn will soften more than latex.

The second is that you are adjusting to a new sleeping surface and this adjustment will happen no matter how suitable the mattress may be for your long term needs and preferences. Your body will take some time to adjust (from a few days to up to 90 days or so) to any new sleeping position just because of the change itself regardless of whether it’s a “good change” or “bad change”. It has a memory of what it is used to and the more he differences between the new and old mattress and the more the sleeping position has changed as a result and the longer you were used to the “old” position the longer the adjustment can take. the good news is that you seem to be going in the right direction. The “not so good news” is that you may not get where you want to go and then it’s a matter of “best judgement” or “best guess” as to what may be your best course of action. I think that you can probably assume that the initial foam softening will continue past your 14 day mark. So can you “trust” it … to a small degree (it’s going in the right direction) but I would try your best (with help if possible) to assess whether you are in good alignment and whether your pelvis seems to be sinking down too far, especially on your back. It still has a ways to go as you mentioned before it will “match” the mattress in the store.

Support/alignment issues generally produce lower back symptoms and these may indicate support layers that are too soft or sometimes too firm (in your case the odds are better that it would be too soft which will tend to not get a lot better if this is the cause because if anything things will tend to get softer yet). of course this is the “best odds” scenario and if your “symptoms” indicate that any lower back issues are getting better then this could indicate something else (such as softening leading to less 'twisting" when you are sleeping.

Third, I wake up with stiff neck which is not typical of my back problems but came with this mattress. THIS IS MY BIG QUESTION:
does my stiff neck indicate the mattress is too soft? I am asking since I have one more week to change to a more firm mattress of the model and I get only one switch! (Sleepy’s allow only one switch after 14 days). My task now is too discover if the mattress is too soft and perhaps this is the reason for the stiff neck? Any advice on that? That is the $4000 question.
(I know it is better to have to firm then too soft since firm can be softened with another layer but in this case there is already a very thick foam/gel layer on top of the mattress).

Neck issues usually indicates either “twisting” or the head and neck being out of neutral alignment or a combination of both. The first place I would suspect here would be the pillow. When you get a new mattress and your shoulders and upper body are sinking in to the mattress differently … it can change the “gap” between the head and neck and the mattress which would require a new pillow to keep you in the same alignment as you had before. The second place I would look is upper body twisting to remove pressure on the shoulders but this seems to be less likely with comfort layers that seem to be fairly thick and soft.

Even on the new mattress, although I can sleep on my back, sleeping on my back causes pain, even though I feel very comfortable and supported. Why is that? I can sleep great on my back on my old firmer couch but not on this mattress. I get pains in my left leg and knee, although they are fine (problem with disc, not the legs). Sleeping on my side the bed gives me great support - even in neck, which wakes up stiff.

This isn’t unusual at all. Generally a side sleeper needs thicker/softer comfort layers because the more “protuding” parts and pressure points (hips and shoulders normally) that are connected with a more “curvy” sleeping profile need to sink into the comfort layers more to relieve pressure. This same amount of thickness … espcially if it’s more than you really need for your side sleeping … can lead to your pelvis sinking down too far on your gack which is a “flatter” position and this can lead to pelvic tilt and the lower spine being out of alignment. The “curves” that need to be “filled in” on the back are less. "Comfort is what you feel and is more connected to surface softness while “support” is more about the ability to relax completely and have the mattress keep your spine in alignment instead of your muscles. The “feeling” of support is more of a sense that you body can “let go” without experiencing or anticipating pain or discomfort or the tendency of the back muscles to remain tense and hold up your heavier parts. The couch uses firer foam which would not allow your heavier parts to sink in as far on your back and is probably more resilient and provides a more firm “filling in” effect in the more recessed parts of your sleeping profile. In other words it’s keeping you in better alignment on your back. This can indicate the need for firmer and/or thinner comfort layers as long as they are “just enough” to provide good pressure relief when you are on your side. Don’t forget that the “feeling of support” is not what you body needs … it’s the neutral alignment of the spine and joints and the ability of the muscles to relax and not have to contribute to the alignment. Support is the “method” and alignment is the “goal”.

And finally, the strangest thing: I sleep fine on hotel beds! what is it about hotel beds which makes them better for my back, even better then the one I just bought who is much more expensive and has all the foam and gel in it?

There are many factors involved with this “phenomenon” and there are just as many people who feel the opposite (I never sleep well in a hotel) and there are also many people who buy a hotel bed and quickly discover that it doesn’t “work” as well in their bedroom over the long term. There really isn’t a specific type of “hotel mattresses” but they do tend to have some things in common.

In general hotel beds are designed to be in a sweet spot that can work for a larger percentage of the population and are in better condition than the mattress that people sleep on at home. They are designed to provide reasonable pressure relief and alignment for a larger percentage of the population “on average” and for a few days. They generally have thicker layers of foam on top that are soft but not too soft (you won’t go sinking through them into the firmer layers below) and will also have mattress pads or toppers on top to add to the surface feel. This way a large percentage of people (and most sleep on their sides at least part of the time) will be fine for a few nights and will notice the difference between what they are used to (generally not so good) and the hotel which is often an improvement. There are also subjective considerations involved as well. There is more about hotel mattresses towards the end of post #4 here and the beginning of post #4 here and post #2 here and post #2 here (I thought I’d amalgamate a few “hotel” posts in one :))

Hope that all helps.

Phoenix