Suffered with current mattress from the beginning ... looking for new

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
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Six years ago, in the Spring of 2020, I purchased a Bowles Performance Series Hybrid with memory foam mattress. This purchase was through a local furniture store that I have used for other items. This local furniture stores didn’t know much about mattresses, but I was armed with some knowledge from TMU even though access to all information on TMU was limited due to the site redesign that has happening at the time.

The Bowles mattress supposedly had good components. It had a Quantum Edge Combi-Zone coil system and couple inches of 4 lb gel memory foam. I don’t rmember, now, what is in the quilt layer. In any case, I tested the mattress in the store for a good amount of time and concluded it should work for me.

How wrong I was is an understatement. It was horrible from the day they delivered it. Of course, they had a strict policy of no returns, which is why I tried to be as diligent as possible before making the purchase. It may not have even been my fault. The mattress could have had a defect or was damaged, which neither occurred to me at the time.

The problem I experienced with it was that it didn’t feel anything like the floor model and that didn’t have anything to do with needing a break-in period. It felt like there was a hard bar running across the mattress in the lumbar area just like in one of those fold-out mattresses in a sleeper sofa. I ended up walking back and forth on a couple different occasions on that area in hopes of softening up that area. Plus, I bought a thick cotton mattress cover. Both helped enough that I could tolerate it.

I do wonder if it was damaged in the store’s warehouse, because this happened right around the height of COVID-19, which caused a delay in delivery. The store called me one day to say they received the mattress and could bring it on Friday of the same week. However, they called me back a couple hours later and said the state had declared a COVID quarantine-at-home and ordered all businesses to close for a month. So, my poor mattress ended up sitting in their warehouse for a month. Maybe they didn’t store it properly.

Anyway, enough ranting, it’s been six years and I need a new mattress. I live in a somewhat rural area, so I’m limited to mostly national chains like Mattress Firm and Denver Mattress. However, I recently discovered a family-owned mattress store an hour away that carries possibly more durable brands such as Prana Sleep and Posh+Lavish.

I had a couple hours between appointments back in April and went to Denver Mattress just to look around at what they had, but not to conduct a thorough testing. A couple models, which I have questions about, seemed like they could work comfort wise, but I need to check them out further for support.

Denver Mattress Vail Luxury Firm
Quilt Layers
Natural Tencel® Fabric
1” HyperGel® High Airflow 3 lb. Visco Quilt Foam
1” Convoluted High Density Quilt Foam
Natural Wool/Rayon Fire Barrier
Hand Tufted
Comfort Layers
580 GSM Wool/Cashmere Blend
2” Talalay 100% Natural 24 ILD Latex
1” 19-gauge Micro-Coil Queen Coil Density 2226
1” USDA Certified Sustain 2.6 lb. Visco Foam
1” High Density 2.2 lb. Firm Foam
Support System
*952 Individually Wrapped Coils (*Based on Queen Size)
15.5 Wire Gauge
Foam Encased
2” High Density Base Foam

The salesperson was able to give me densities (from upper management supposedly) a couple days later via text for this mattress
Stearns & Foster Reserve Medium
Quilt Layers:
FR Sock
1" Premium Ultra Soft Gel Foam
1" Premium Gel Memory Foam (1.45 lb.)
Comfort Layers:
1" Premium Soft Latex (3.37 lb.)
2.5" TEMPUR-Indulge™ Memory Foam (3.75 lb.)
2" Premium Soft Gel Foam (1.5 lb.)
Support System:
Coil Density: 1744 IntelliCoil HD™ Innerspring System
8 S&F AirVents
PrecisionEdge™ System
Base:
1" Premium Extra Firm Foam Base (1.7 lb.)
0.5" Firm Foam (1.3 lb.)

For the Vail Luxury Firm, I’m not sure if the 1" of convoluted foam with no density specification as well as the 1" of 3 lb. memory foam in the quilt layer is a weak link or not since the mattress is hand tufted. I’m also not sure if the 2.6 lb. of memory foam is a weak link since it starts 3 inches under durable materials.

The S&F, which felt the best, scares me that it will not feel so great in a year or two. Some say they have had this mattress for many years and it is still great while others say it will breakdown in a couple years. The Indulge memory foam at 3.75 lb. is close, but still under the 4 lb. recommended density. So, will it fail soon or will it last almost as long as a 4 lb. memory foam? If the Indulge layer is not much of a weak link, then what about the 1.45 lb memory foam in the quilt layer? I also had a question about the other foam in the quilt layer that states gel foam. Did they forget to add the word “memory” to that description or can gel be infused into any foam type (poly, memory, letex)? The quilt layer is also supposed to be tufted, so will that help with the durability of the quilt layers? I don’t have the ILD or type of latex (talalay, dunlop, blended), although I’m guessing blended. How durable would the latex be in this mattress?

During the first part of May I was in the area of the family-owned mattress store that is an hour away. I didn’t have much time to test them properly, but plan to go back to do a more thorough job. I only got a chance to try out the Prana Sleep. That store didn’t have the densities, but I found the below densities online from Jordan’s Furniture.

Prana Sleep Asha Luxe Pro Medium
PranaCool - Cool Touch Knit Cover
FR Fibers
0.75" Soft Quilt Poly Foam 1.35LB
1" Soft Quilt Poly Foam 1.35LB
2" Soft Graphite w/ PCM Talalay Latex
3" Ultra Firm Talalay Latex
All foam layers are:
CertiPUR-US(R)certified
6" Firm Talalay Latex Core
BOTTOM UPHOLSTERY (Below Core)
1" Firm Poly Foam 1.45LB

Same question as with the other mattresses, is the foam in quilt going to be an issue? They do have the Dharma series, which ups the poly density in the quilt to their EverLast poly at 2.5 lb. according to Jordan’s Furniture. That series also ups the latex to their Performance Talalay. I don’t know what the difference is in that.

Is Talalay ok for use in the support layer or should it be Dunlop? The store has Posh+Lavish, which uses Dunlop in the core and Talalay in the comfort layer.

I noticed, as I was testing the Prana Sleep mattress, that the fabric was pilling and there was a loose thread. The salesperson said the mattresses had only been on the floor for 6 months. I’m guessing that’s nothing to worry about sense hundreds of people are probably getting on and off those mattresses every day and without sheets that can happen, but in a home environment it should be fine?

One thing both of these stores did was the salesperson used the adjustable base to raise head and feet on all the mattresses that were tried. Is this a new tactic to distract customers from properly testing? When testing, should we be flat first to see if it is a proper mattress for us or is it ok to test with raised head and feet if planning on sleeping in that configuration all the time? How is bending a mattress and sleeping in that configuration night after night going to affect durability compared to staying flat? Is the test for comfort and support going to be different when raised compared to flat?

The family-owned store, unfortunately, doesn’t have a sleep trial and considering my last experience with a store that didn’t accept returns, I’m a little gun-shy about getting something from there. Not because they don’t have quality mattresses, but more so from making a mistake on testing to find the right one for me. Denver Mattress has the sleep trial and their Luxury line (Telluride, Vail and Aspen) seem like quality durable mattresses. That’s not many choices unless I can get the testing correct so that I can be more confident in buying from the family-owned store.

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Hi poolshark.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :smiley:

That is quite the wild journey through the mattress market, and navigating a major purchase after a nightmare, non-returnable lockdown buy with some apprehension is…completely understandable. The hard bar feeling you experienced in your 2020 hybrid was almost certainly an aggressive, overly stiff center-third lumbar zone in that Combi-Zone coil unit.

I’m happy to dive into the strengths and weak links of the beds you shared!

1. Denver Mattress: Vail Luxury Firm

  • The Quilt Weak Links: The 1" of convoluted foam and 1" of 3 lb. memory foam in the quilt are technically lower-density foams that would typically be durability red flags. However, because this mattress is hand-tufted, those layers are mechanically compressed and physically locked down. This compression removes a massive amount of the initial “fluff” that normally sags over time, making lower-density quilt foams far more durable than they would be in a standard non-tufted mattress.
  • The 2.6 lb. Deep Memory Foam: At 2.6 lbs, this is a lower-density memory foam, but its placement saves it. Because it sits 3 inches deep beneath a heavy wool blend and a resilient 2" layer of 24 ILD Talalay latex, your body weight is completely decelerated before it reaches it. It will act as a transitional cushion rather than a primary load-bearing layer, meaning it won’t act as a significant weak link.

2. Stearns & Foster: Reserve Medium

  • The 3.75 lb. TEMPUR-Indulge Foam: At 3.75 lbs, it is technically just shy of the traditional 4 lb. enthusiast standard, but it is a massive step up from standard retail memory foam. It will not experience sudden catastrophic failure; rather, it will experience a slow, progressive softening. It sits right on the edge of great durability.
  • The 1.45 lb. Quilt Foam & “Gel Foam”: The 1.45 lb foam in the quilt is a weak link and will soften within the first couple of years, despite the tufting. Regarding the “Gel Foam” description, they did not forget the word “memory.” Gel can be chemically infused into any foam chemistry—standard polyurethane foam, memory foam, or latex. In this case, “Premium Soft Gel Foam” is simply standard, soft polyfoam with gel mixed in.
  • The Latex Layer: Stearns & Foster typically uses synthetic or blended Dunlop latex. It is highly durable and tough to wear out, but because it is a relatively thin 1" layer buried deep in the stack, its primary purpose is acting as a durable transitional floor rather than defining the primary feel of the bed.

3. PranaSleep: Asha Luxe Pro Medium

  • The 1.35 lb. Quilt Foams: Yes, 1.35 lb polyfoam is very low density and will inevitably soften and take on body contouring over time.
  • The Dharma Upgrade: Stearns & Foster and PranaSleep have very different build philosophies. Stearns relies on complex, multi-layered synthetic foam stacks over heavy steel. PranaSleep relies heavily on massive blocks of high-end latex. The Dharma series upgrades the quilt to their 2.5 lb. “EverLast” polyfoam, which vastly improves durability. Their “Performance Talalay” refers to a proprietary blend that optimizes natural and synthetic rubber for better consistency and tensile strength compared to baseline latex lines.
  • Talalay vs. Dunlop in the Core: Talalay is perfectly fine for a support core if it is poured in a high enough ILD (ultra-firm density), which PranaSleep does relatively well. Posh+Lavish uses a Dunlop core because Dunlop is inherently denser, heavier, and less expensive to produce at structural core thicknesses, whereas Talalay is more energetic and open-celled. Neither approach is “wrong”; a pure Talalay core simply feels more rubbery and buoyant (angel food cake), while a Dunlop core feels more grounded and solid (pound cake).
  • Showroom Pilling: You can completely disregard the floor model pilling and loose thread. Showroom beds endure hundreds of people sliding on and off of them in rough denim jeans with exposed zippers and rivets every single week without a protective sheet or mattress protector. In a home environment under normal bedding, this will not happen (well…I mean…I guess that depends on what you’re doing to your mattress but it SHOULDN’T happen haha).

4. The Adjustable Base “Tactic”

Salespeople frequently use the “zero gravity” button to tilt the head and feet for two reasons: it instantly feels incredibly relaxing (distracting you from analyzing the flat support), and it forces your body deep into the comfort layers, masking a mattress that might actually be too firm or poorly aligned when flat. :eyes:

  • How to Test: Always test a mattress completely flat first for at least 10–15 minutes to evaluate correct spinal alignment and basic comfort. Only test it raised if you strictly plan to sleep in that exact position every single night.
  • Durability & Support Changes: Bending a quality mattress on an adjustable base does not hurt its long-term durability, as modern foam and pocketed coil units are specifically engineered to flex. However, flexing drastically alters the support and comfort profile. It relieves lower back pressure instantly, meaning a mattress that feels amazing on an adjustable base might give you severe back pain if you lay flat on it overnight.

Do not buy from a store without a sleep trial unless you are 100% certain of the specs and feel.

Denver Mattress’s Luxury line (Vail, Telluride, Aspen) offers incredible material specs for a national chain, utilizing heavy hand-tufting, real Talalay latex, high-density base foams, and advanced micro-coils. Because they back it with a solid sleep trial, it gives you a massive financial safety net.

If you decide to brave the family-owned store for the PranaSleep or Posh+Lavish, make sure you go back, insist on testing the beds completely flat for a minimum of 20 minutes in your primary sleeping positions, and ask if they can offer any comfort exchange accommodations in writing to ease your peace of mind.

NikkiTMU

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Thanks, @NikkiTMU for the info. It was very helpful and answered some of my questions. I’m starting to move from my casual browsing stage to actually testing to narrow down possible contenders. I hope you can help with a little advice.

First, some background on me and my wife. I am 5’ 11" and 220 lbs (working on loosing 40 to 50) and my wife is 5’ 6" and 170 lbs (working on loosing 20 to 30). She has a bad back due to a car accident as well as slipping on icy steps onto her back in the past. We are both mainly side sleepers with occasional back sleeping.

My wife says that she can tell within a minute or two when testing a mattress if it will work for her back or not, because she says her back will start to twinge or throb. She tends to prefer a super firm mattress, which would never work for me, but certain softer ones have worked as well such as the Stearns & Foster mentioned in my original post and the Purple Restore Premier Cool Touch we tried the other day at Mattress Firm.

Just an example of how sensitive her back is, she said the Prana Asha Classic Firm was perfect, but she had a slight twinge with the Prana Ash Luxe Pro Medium. I couldn’t really tell much difference between them other than the medium was maybe slightly conforming, but still on top of the mattress for the most part. I do know, for me, that after testing the firm model my hip wasn’t hurting, but after standing up, my side felt like I had been on a hard surface. It makes me wonder if after an hour I would start feeling hip pain and would end up tossing and turning.

I’m thinking the Purple and the Stearns & Foster worked for her, because of the respective comfort materials pushing back and being somewhat supportive even though it was soft and conforming, which when combined with the support of the coils made it work.

I liked the Purple as well. However, I am concerned about the durability of the gird material. I came across this video that showed how it broke down in a couple of years. I’m also concerned that with the Stearns due to the low quality foam in the quilt layer and graceful slow softening of the Indulge Memory foam that it may only work for her over a couple of years.

I am really confused about what is going to be the best for her back that will remain that way for a reasonable amount of time yet be comfortable for me as well. I am a little more flexible as long as the mattress isn’t going to be pushing back too hard at my hip. What would be a good configuration, coils, memory foam, latex?

I may be limited to local shopping as well due to her back sensitivity, because even with the trial periods and comfort exchange policies, it might be a hassle. On the other hand, it might actually be the only option in the end by going with a TMU member like @Sleep_EZ or @DIYMattress or @BackScience that can customize each side of the mattress.

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It sounds like you and your wife are dealing with a very difficult, but very common, predicament. When you have a massive difference in firmness preferences—especially when her preference is driven by severe back trauma and yours is driven by joint pressure—trying to find a single mattress that works for both of you often leads to both of you being uncomfortable.

As a chiropractor and mattress designer for over 25 years, I completely understand the hesitation with national brands that use a mix of lower-density foams, particularly in the quilt layers. When your wife’s back is so sensitive that she feels a twinge within minutes of testing a mattress that lacks proper support, any sagging over time from lower-grade materials is going to cause her severe pain down the line.

The Local vs. Online Dilemma While I understand your reluctance to buy online after your experience with the Bowles mattress sitting in a warehouse, purchasing a bed from a showroom that does not allow returns is an enormous gamble, especially with your wife’s sensitive back. What feels supportive for 15 minutes in a store often feels completely different after eight hours of sleep once your muscles fully relax into the surface.

This is exactly why we designed the Back Science Series 3 Hybrid with our GripLock Modular Cover System. It provides the peace of mind of testing in your own home with the ability to completely customize the feel without returning the entire bed.

Why the Series 3 for Your Situation?

  1. For You (Side Sleeper/Pressure Relief): The Series 3 is our most luxurious model. It uses our thickest, highest-quality comfort layers to provide the buoyant, cloud-like pressure relief you need so you don’t wake up feeling like you’ve been sleeping on a hard surface.
  2. For Your Wife (Trauma/Support Needs): Despite the plush surface, the Series 3 utilizes our patent-pending Lumbar-Flex™ Zoned Support System. This actively reinforces the center third of the mattress. It provides the deep structural push-back your wife’s traumatized back is seeking, ensuring her spine stays perfectly neutral even while the surface contours to her.
  3. The Split Firmness Solution: If you order the Series 3 and find that the luxury plush feel is perfect for your hips but still not quite firm enough for her back, we can step in and fix it. We can actually send out new internal components to create a split firmness within the same mattress. We can leave your side plush and customize her side to be exceptionally firm, allowing you both to get exactly what you need without compromising.

A Note on the Adjustable Base Testing You asked about salespeople raising the adjustable base during testing. This is indeed a tactic. Elevating the legs and head into a “Zero Gravity” position takes the pressure off the lower back and hips, making almost any mattress feel comfortable in the showroom. You should always test a mattress completely flat first, as that is how your spine will be interacting with the structural support of the mattress during normal sleep.

We would love to help you both finally get the rest you need. Please feel free to visit www.BackScience.com to look at the Series 3, or call us directly at 800-667-1969 to discuss your specific situation.

Also, as a reminder, since you are a member of The Mattress Underground, you can use the code TMU10 for an additional discount.

Dr. Rick Swartzburg, D.C.
Founder and Head of Product Development

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I’m currently working on trying to replicate the Asha Luxe Pro Medium. While I know it won’t feel exact I think something close would feel amazing.
From what I could gather it’s a
6" talalay blend firm ILD36.
3" talalay blend extra firm ILD44
2" talalay blend or 100%? ILD19
The top sewn in poly which is close to 2" I was thinking 2’ of the 100% talalay.
13 inch APM bambo Wool cover.
Any advice on this build would be greatly appreciated TY

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I dont understand why they put the ultra firm layer on top of the firm base layer, but they’ve got 2" of soft on top of that, followed by 1.75" of super soft foam. If thats the build you want to replicate, you can do that in the same way.

Id like someone to offer their input on why its layered in that fashion. Because in my opinion you could avoid spending an extra $400 and just put the soft latex on top of the 6" firm base, then the super soft polyfoam on top, which you could get a few .5" layers or 1" layers and decide how plush you want the top to feel. It wont be quilted in but youd still get a similar feel.

Another option would be to put 2" of super soft on the top.

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I agree it seems weird to add a firmer layer in the middle. Also there’s an inch of poly under the base which seems totally silly. I will say laying in that mattress felt extremely supportive yet soft enough on top for aching joints. I would love feedback from the experts on it.

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The super soft foam on top negates the bounciness of the latex, and gives extra contouring. the soft latex is the comfort/transition latex and that sits on the ultra firm, which functions has support for alignment. This shows there can be ways to make things optimal by alternating firmness and thickness of the layers. Birch, in their luxe model uses medium latex on top of soft.

Your body might press into the extra firm, but the firm underneath is still having an effect. It’s not as if there may as well not be anything but the floor under the extra firm just because the extra firm is in the middle of the bed rather than the bottom. That base is still having a function. You could build your own version of that same bed without the polyfoam on the bottom, and get it all put together for, my guess would be $2200 if using talalay or blended. Which is massively less expensive. The bamboo wool cover by mattresses.net would be my recommendation.

Only thing is, it seems more difficult to find extra firm latex than i was expecting.

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@Poitras1 where did you find the ILD of the latex in the Asha? The store I tested it at only had the thickness of each layer.

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I used the AI and google search and that’s what came up. Is it right idk lol but it seems in the ballpark. It’s blended talalay so those numbers should be pretty accurate.

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Latex mattress factory has the extra firm 44ILD if that is truly what that mattress middle layer is.

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Thanks for such a detailed write-up, your questions are really good ones that a lot of people overlook when mattress shopping.

On your foam density concerns: you’re right to be cautious. Even with hand tufting, a 1.35 lb poly quilt foam or 1.45 lb memory foam in the quilt layer will be the first to show wear. Tufting helps anchor layers but won’t make low-density foam last. The deeper comfort and support layers matter more for long-term durability.

On the S&F Reserve Medium: the 3.75 lb Indulge foam is close enough to 4 lb that you won’t notice a huge durability difference. The bigger risk is actually the low-density quilt foam. The “gel foam” listed is likely gel-infused poly foam, gel can be added to any foam type, so the missing word “memory” is probably intentional, not an error.

On Talalay vs Dunlop: Dunlop is more stable and dense, making it better suited for support cores. Posh+Lavish’s approach, Dunlop core with Talalay comfort layer, is actually considered the gold standard in latex construction.

On adjustable base testing: always test flat first. An inclined position offloads pressure differently and can hide support issues. Get your flat assessment done, then test inclined if needed.

Given your history with no-return policies, Denver Mattress’s sleep trial is the safer bet. If you’re ever curious how pocket sprung construction compares, Super Beds offers a helpful range their mattress collection is worth browsing, and the is a good example of how pocket spring density translates to support and durability. Useful context when comparing specs across brands.