Well I’m going to give it some more time to air out. Part of my problem is I’ve been having asthma type symptoms since I got the mattress but the air quality here has been questionable to so I don’t know if it’s the mattress or the air. I’m sleeping on the couch now. Once I’m feeling better I’ll sleep on the mattress again and if the symptoms come back then I’ll know it’s the mattress. I guess since this happened I’m really skeptical about memory foam - which sucks because I love the feel of it.
I already returned a mattress on a warranty and got the guarantee again. I originally got a simmons beautyrest and it was WAY softer than the one I tested in the store. I got horrible lower back pain - something I’ve never experienced from a mattress. I know it had memory foam in it and the smell did not seem to bother me- so I’m hoping it’s not the foam with the current mattress- but I’m scared now. I do have chemical sensitivities but normally I don’t get asthma symptoms- it’s more of an annoyance.
So basically I’m worried if I do another exchange I’ll end up with yet another mattress that I can’t sleep on. At least with the current one I know it’s comfortable if I could get rid of the smell. I’ve tried all the suggestions- I’ve been walking on it daily, took everything off it including the cover, have the window open, tons of air flow, bowl of vinegar in the room, etc.
I guess I could exchange it for a super firm spring mattress and then put a topper on- but they didn’t have any I was very excited about. I’m def. not getting another simmons beautyrest… what a disaster.
Anyway, I don’t know what happened to the mattress industry- or maybe it’s just that I’m pickier now that I’m older… but the mattress I bought 12 years ago was so easy. I went in, bought it, slept on it the first night and was happy for 12 years. If I’d known what I know now I would have either 1) kept my old mattress, removed the pillowtop and added a topper… or 2) bought my own foams and constructed a mattress…
The industry has changed a lot in the last 12 years (and not for the better unfortunately).
There are still many smaller manufacturers that are sold either factory direct or through better sleep shops that are still providing great quality and value but they are usually drowned out by the massive advertising of the major brands and chain stores which don’t sell mattresses with the same quality materials as they did one or two decades ago.
It seems to me that you have already tried the most likely suggestions and hopefully the next little while will solve your odor problem and symptoms. At least your experience with Simmons showed that you don’t have the same issue with every type of memory foam.
I also had an issue with a specific type of memory foam (as you can read here) and this was the only time I’ve reacted to any memory foam that I’ve tried. Hopefully this is a unique circumstance for you as well.
I’m going to test for VOCs etc (basic air quality in my room)- I’ll let you know what the results are. Basically don’t f$$$%^% with a chemical engineer.
If the test comes back good (which it should given the certi-pur testing) then I’ll let it go. For some reason I don’t think it’s going to though.
I’d sure be interested in hearing about your results … and in the equipment you are using to test as well.
In most cases VOC’s are measured in fractions of PPM as you can see in the CertiPur testing standards here* and would need sensitive equipment to detect them.
ADMIN NOTE:*Always check CertiPur site for the latest guidelines available
Ok. I could be wrong about some of this but I’ve been looking at some numbers and things aren’t adding up as far as the certi-pur certification. According to their documentation the limits in ppm of the following chemicals are:
Benzene <0.1565 ppm
formaldehyde <0.082 ppm
aromatic hydrocarbon (which includes benzene in my mind???) <0.07 ppm
tributyltin (TBT) (which is fat soluble btw) <5 ppm
2,4-toluenediamine (TDA) < 5 ppm
4,4-diaminodiphenylmethane (MDA) < 5 ppm
When I look up exposure limits from various sources (EPA, NIOSH, OSHA etc) this is what I find:
benzene <0.1 ppm (NIOSH), < 0.5 ppm (NAAQS) (this is either higher or lower than the certi-pur certification depending on which limit you use and which standard they list.)
formaldehyde < 0.1 ppm (EPA)
tributyltin (TBT) (which is fat soluble btw) < 0.0084 ppm (NIOSH)
2,4-toluenediamine (TDA) < 0 (OSHA) (I wasn’t sure if this was zero exposure because it’s a proven carcinogen or if it meant they didn’t have an exposure set)
4,4-diaminodiphenylmethane (MDA) < 0.1 ppm (NIOSH)
So basically with the last three the amount in your mattress can be way higher than exposure limits in the workplace?
I’ve already decided that once I test the air in my room I’m getting rid of the mattress… I always thought organic mattresses were hokey but I’ll probably be going that route considering that almost all other mattresses have memory foam in them.
I’ll post my results when I get them. The measurements should be in the ppb range…
Welcome to the rabbit hole of chemical testing and “mattress safety issues” :dry:
To make matters even more confusing than the different standards (NIOSH, OSHA, EPA etc) … there are also different testing methods used for bedding materials that will make a big difference in the results (such as testing in a small chamber with 72 hour pre-conditioning vs testing the air quality in a room).
There’s a little more in post #2 here (which also has further links to other posts and resources) which may be of interest.
The majority of mattresses sold in the country don’t have any memory foam although if they don’t they will usually contain other types of foam such as polyfoam or latex and of course polyfoam also has some “issues” for many people depending on how each person answers the question “how safe is safe enough for me?”.
I would also be very careful with “organic” mattress claims because in many cases a mattress that is marketed as being organic only has an organic cover and “organic” is used in a marketing sense rather than indicating organic certification.
There are currently only three mattress manufacturers in the US that make any organic mattresses (GOTS certified not USDA certified) which are OMI, Naturepedic, and Savvy Rest and none of their organic mattresses contain any foam of any kind at all (they all make latex mattresses that aren’t certified organic).
Having said that there there are many manufacturers that use organic materials or latex in various layers of their mattress even though the mattress itself has no organic certification. Even latex needs other chemicals to make the foam so the GOLS organic certification for latex is only 95% organic and the other 5% is the other ingredients used to manufacture the foam.
In most cases … “organic” is more about mattress marketing than mattress fact. You can read a little more here about organic latex for example in post #6 here.
Yeah, I understand why they have testing guidelines. The air quality in my room will be completely different from the air quality in a different room with the same mattress. Also, from a scientific perspective it’s impossible to know if the chemicals detected are from the mattress, carpet, varnish on the dresser, paint on the wall etc etc. This is why if the results are bad I’m planning to retest the air once I get the mattress out- just so I have a better idea of exactly what was coming from the mattress and what wasn’t.
I should also mention that my roommate has a memory foam mattress which is one reason why I wasn’t worried about getting one. She went in my room earlier today and said is was hard to breath. I don’t think hers ever smelled this bad.
Anyway, once I get rid of the mattress I have some time to think about it because I bought an aero bed at costco for the meantime. I’m pretending it’s a sleep number.
I do understand that organic tends to mean a latex mattress with an organic cover. I was hoping the organic cover would mean it hasn’t been treated with chemicals. Rocky Mountain Mattress Company is close to here so I was hoping I could try out some of there beds before committing to ordering a latex bed (I’ve never had latex). I went to Ikea to try their latex mattress (I have no intention of getting it because I know it’s a blended latex but I wanted to see how they felt) and I was really disappointed at how soft it felt considering it was listed as firm. This makes me even more nervous about ordering online.
Good idea that should eliminate most of the variables. Like you said … don’t mess with a chemical engineer. I’m really curious what your results will show.
Sometimes it really seems to be hit and miss. We also had a bad experience with a memory foam topper on one occasion and it was both of us with similar symptoms and not just the smell. It wasn’t pleasant to say the least. It’s the only time I’ve reacted to memory foam. The smell itself was kind of “musty” which I understand is typical of aldehydes but you would probably know more than I would on that front.
There are two parts to an organic wool certification. One of these is the farming of the sheep and the production of the raw wool which is controlled by the NOP of the USDA. They don’t have an organic certification for the wool products or textiles though and for this you would need to look for GOTS organic certification. There are also non certified wool textiles that don’t use chemicals such as eco wool or Puregrow wool. There is an interesting article here on organic wool.
Unfortunately they no longer have a showroom but they may be able to give you some guidance about testing similar mattresses at Lake Mattress (see post #19 and 20 here). I would call them first though as there appears to be some confusion in their relationship or agreement which I still haven’t been able to clarify.
Post #2 here may also have some other options close to you where you can test latex.
Doesn’t the icomfort mattress have novaform in it? maybe it’s something to do with the process they use to add the gel that makes it more prone to reactions? or off gas more? I did smell my roommates memory foam mattress (she got her’s at ikea) and it doesn’t smell at all. granted it is a year old but she said her’s only smelled for a few days. and she never had a reaction to it, but she said it’s hard to breath in my room. anyway, I set up the filters today to sample the air. I put them about 6 inches above the mattress because I figure that’s where your head is when you’re sleeping/or laying on the mattress. I should have results within a couple weeks. When I went in my room I had the same reaction as before only not as severe. chest tightness and difficulty breathing… can’t wait to tell the store to get the thing out of my room…
I think I had a different rocky mountain mattress in mind? this one is in Lehi, UT. I’m not sure if these guys have the best prices but it would be nice to try out a mattress before buying it…
Novaform is a brand name for a mattress not a foam but both of them use variations of gel foam made by Sleep Innovations (or their foam manufacturing division called Advanced Urethane Technologies).
This is the same company (and a member of this site). Their corporate headquarters is in Levi, Utah and they used to have a factory showroom in Conover (where the factory is located) and when they closed that (it was in the factory which was a liability issue) then they made an arrangement with Lake Mattress in Mooresville to test some of their mattresses there (or similar mattresses that they carry).
I’ve been finding lots of papers that attempt to quantify 2,4-TDA and 2,6-TDA (toluenediamine) in memory foam products. These are both biproducts of the chemical process to make memory foam and are suspected carcinogens. It appears that current thought it you can be exposed to around 1 ppm without adverse effects. However, the CertiPUR certification allows up to 5 ppm.
One paper I found looked at ranges of 2,4-TDA over a 10 day period and found that 2,4-TDA decreased between 20-90% and 2,6-TDA decreased between 20-80%.
J. R. Johnson, D. Karlsson, M. Dalene, and G. Skarping, “Determination of aromatic amines in aqueous extracts of polyurethane foam using hydrophilic interaction liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry.,” Analytica chimica acta, vol. 678, no. 1, pp. 117–23, Sep. 2010.
Another paper found ranges 2,4-TDA between undetectable - 6.9 ppm… and 2,6-TDA between undetectable - 6.3 ppm. These values all increased when the foam was heated - some being as high as 15 ppm.
Å. Marand, D. Karlsson, M. Dalene, and G. Skarping, “Extractable organic compounds in polyurethane foam with special reference to aromatic amines and derivatives thereof,” Analytica Chimica Acta, vol. 510, no. 1, pp. 109–119, May 2004.
I think that the “truth” is that nobody really knows for sure and testing for individual chemicals or volatiles also doesn’t take into account the total loading of toxic chemicals that someone is exposed to that can increase sensitivity to any one of them (or to untested combinations). Over the course of decades … chemicals that were once considered “safe” within certain limits are now known to be potentially harmful to a percentage of the population but the science is nowhere near accurate enough as the amount of chemicals used in all parts of our society is increasing with results that are still not well understood.
CertiPur is a step in the right direction but empirical evidence suggests that the limits don’t account for all the population either because of individual differences between people or because of differences between different batches of material. Oeko-Tex is a more stringent qualification for many toxins and chemicals but in a decade even these may be discovered to to be too low as new information comes to light.
It can be frustrating when the simple act of buying a mattress leads to questions that nobody can answer with any specific degree of accuracy or that requires a degree in chemical engineering to be able to make sense of the information that is already available :unsure:
Not as high as I thought they might be but still disturbing that this stuff is potentially in the mattress.
I’m going to talk to the store tomorrow… if they won’t take it back I’m going to go on and measure for toluene diisocyanate, diphenylmethane diisocyanate, 2,4-toluenediamine, 2,6-toluenediamine and 4,4-methylenedianiline.
I’d have to do some research to “translate” the results but they sure are interesting.
I’m curious about your testing protocol. Were these taken as random air samples in certain places in the room or at some predefined distance from the mattress?
I collected the air samples approximately 6 inches off the mattress (I figure this is about where your head is) over a period of 72 hours. The mattress had been already been out-gassing for two weeks before I collected the samples… and it was manufactured about two months ago.
All of these appear to fall within the guidelines of the certi-PUR certification. I however have a problem with how much benzene the certification allows. I also have a problem with how much TDA/MDA is allowed. As far as I can tell safe exposure to these is considered to be around 1 ppm but the certification allows up to 5 ppm. Also, it doesn’t look like they even test for toluene diisocyanate. I’m still trying to figure out he best way to test for these. So far it looks like I may have to cut the mattress so unless I figure something else out I won’t test for them unless they refuse to take the mattress back.
Also, it is true that these chemicals can come from other things such as pressed wood, varnish, carpet, paint, air fresheners, cleaning products etc. The carpet and paint in my room is VERY old (over 10 years) so it probably isn’t emitting much of anything. My dresser is old (over 40 years) and is solid wood (not pressed wood) so I doubt it’s emitting much either. I don’t use air fresheners, and the main cleaning product I use is a mix of vinegar/water.
I am planning to repeat this same test once I get a different mattress to be sure.
I think if I was presented with your numbers … whether I knew what they meant or not … my jaw would probably drop open and I would refund you as well just to be on the safe side.
LOL… yeah they seemed surprised. I told them a few weeks ago I was testing the air in my room because their mattress made me sick. I guess they didn’t expect results. I think I may be blacklisted from buying another mattress from them; they didn’t even ask if I wanted to exchange it this time.
Anyway, I’m thinking about getting a latex mattress from sleepez. I was looking at the 9" organic one vs the 8" special. I called about the differences and basically it seems to come down to the cover. I’m fine with a cotton/rayon cover that isn’t organic as long as it’s not treated with fire retardants etc. I asked if it was treated and they said no but after my last experience I’m not sure I believe anything from a mattress salesman. Do you know if this is true?
I was also wondering if there are any benefits to getting the wool/cotton as far as feel? Is it going to feel very different from the cotton/rayon cover?
The only other difference I could see is that the organic one has the option of talalay as the support layers whereas the special only has dunlop available for the support layers. It seems like if I was getting extra firm/firm as the layers (I like a firm mattress) that dunlop would be fine. is there any advantage to getting all talalay?
Just trying to figure out if the $400 difference is worth it.
They are the source of any information I have about their mattresses and I trust them and the information they give me completely yes. The non quilted SleepEz special uses a rayon/silica inherent fire barrier instead of the wool.
The wool quilted cover will slightly reduce the amount you sink into the latex (make it a little firmer) and will also provide better temperature control and some of the surface “feel” of a thin wool layer which some people prefer over sleeping directly on the latex. It’s really a matter of preference and your own personal criteria.
Both their organic line and their regular line have the wool quilted cover but the regular gives you a choice between blended talalay and 100% natural Dunlop in any of the layers and has a lower cost while the organic line gives you a choice between 100% natural Talalay and organic Dunlop in any of the layers and is more costly. I personally don’t think organic Dunlop is worth the premium for the certification in terms of performance or safety (see post #6 here) but some people do prefer the 100% natural Talalay over the blended even though they are very similar in terms of feel and performance and all of them have the same OekoTex certification.
The Special has 100% natural talalay in the comfort layer and 100% natural Dunlop in the lower layers. It also doesn’t have the 5% member discount because it’s a lower margin mattress and has a pillow bonus instead.
The comparison between Talalay and Dunlop is also a preference of “feel” (see post #7 here) but Dunlop has a higher compression modulus which means that it gets firmer faster than Talalay in the same ILD as you sink in deeper than the 25% compression where ILD is measured so would generally feel firmer and be more “supportive” (you would sink in less) than Talalay.
