Thank you Phoenix and dn. I’ve been reading more articles on this website all morning. Currently reading the mattress shopping guidelines and an article on the pros and cons of latex. Thank you. Very informative stuff. I live in Philadelphia 19147. Budget is between 1400-2400 for a king. Potentially a bit more if it makes sense.
I found it very helpful to identify which brands were available near me and go lay on them and then consider the options. We ended up buying a pure latex bliss and absolutely love it. We have had it for five months. It is totally worth your time to overwhelm yourself with info and make an informed choice. I share your concerns about plastic and chemicals and those concerns factored into my decision.
I saw that they have a firm pure latex bliss on sale online but I hadn’t done enough research yet. I’d like to shop around more and lay on more mattresses as well. Just trying to narrow down my options first. I have to go with my 1yr old so timing is limited in the stores. I’m glad to hear you like yours. Maybe I can find one to try in Philadelphia.
Hi Lnr103,
Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Philadelphia area are listed in post #4 here.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix!
I’ve printed off your list of mattress warehouses in the Philadelphia area and hope to get to a couple this weekend. Have you heard of a store in Philadelphia called Hollandia or Duxiana? They have some good mattress reviews online but look like they could be rather pricey.
After searching and searching though your site I think I’m fairly certain we will like a natural latex foam mattress. Atleast we like the idea of it. Either a talalay or talalay dunlap mix? We were set on extra firm mattresses but we may be incorrect there. POssibly we just need more exercise and a medium-firm mattress for our fairly small (but lately weak) frames. So we will be open to the suggestions of a qualified salesperson at one of these shops (or here online).
Do you have an opinion on a Vita-Talalay? We have a bunch of laying on mattresses yet to do but I’d like to go in with a general idea and I’m trying my best to gather info while juggling my lovely attention seeking 1year old on my knee. 
I’ve made some notes in case we are steered in another direction: must have less than 1" low density polyfoam (meaning <1.8"), memory foam (meaning alb low density) or unknown foam.
With memory foam, thicker layers are not as good as thinner layers (<4" is better)
avoid all polyfoam in comfort layer (which is the top layer on the mattress).
If we are steered in an inner coil direction, pocket followed by offset are better. Aare there any you recommend with a nice natural latex memory type foam comfort layer??
1st off, do I have any of that right?
Secondly, do you think we will be able to find a king size (fairly eco-friendly) mattress we will like for under 2200?
Thank you so very much.
Hi Lnr103,
Hollandia used to be on the list but they don’t appear to be in business any longer in Philadelphia. They had some fairly interesting mattresses that were more European in design (with zoned layers that used different types of cutouts or surface modifications) but they were also quite pricey. Duxiana is in a much more premium price range and while they use good quality materials and have good designs, they would need to be significantly better than any of the other options you have available to justify their higher prices IMO.
Vita Talalay is made by Radium which are one of the two main manufacturers of Talalay latex in the western world (the other is Latex International). Like all Talalay latex they are a very high quality and durable material. I would treat the Talalay made by LI and by Radium as close equivalents.
[quote]I’ve made some notes in case we are steered in another direction: must have less than 1" low density polyfoam (meaning <1.8"), memory foam (meaning alb low density) or unknown foam.
With memory foam, thicker layers are not as good as thinner layers (<4" is better)
avoid all polyfoam in comfort layer (which is the top layer on the mattress).[/quote]
These are a little bit confused but close. If you are comfortable with polyfoam I would look for 1.8 lb density polyfoam or higher in a one sided mattress or 1.5 lb in a two sided mattress and no more than “an inch or so” of lower density (or unknown) materials in the comfort layers or quilting. Polyfoam can be a very good option in a lower budget mattress and I certainly wouldn’t avoid it for quality reasons in a suitable density. If you are comfortable with memory foam then the minimum guideline I would use for memory foam is 4 lbs or higher (again with the exception of "around an inch or so of lower quality materials in a mattress). It’s not so much that thicker layers of memory foam are “not as good” (for some people they may be fine) but that they can be “more risky” for some people because you may continue to sink in more deeply over the course of the night which can sometimes risk alignment.
I would tend to avoid overthinking all of this or “pre designing” your mattress and use your testing (backed up by making sure the materials are good quality) as your main consideration or as the best way to decide which type of mattresses you prefer.
This would depend entirely on which one was a good match for you in terms of PPP. The innerspring in a mattress is rarely the weak link of a mattress and any type of innerspring can make a good choice depending on the rest of the mattress design and the budget range. I never recommend specific mattresses (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) because it’s impossible for anyone to know which one is the best match for you based on specs or theory.
You should have many good options available for under $2200 yes but your choice would also depend on what you mean by “eco frendly” because this is one of those “marketing terms” that is used for almost everything in the industry and doesn’t really have a specific meaning and is mostly just “sales talk”. If you are looking for more “natural” materials for personal reasons then innersprings, 100% natural latex, and natural fibers are probably the most natural choices in terms of materials although I would also keep in mind that natural and eco friendly aren’t necessarily the same thing and if safety is your main concern then there are some synthetic or partly synthetic materials that may be just as “safe” as natural materials.
Phoenix
PS: I switched your other post to this thread since they covered the same topics and questions
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
I’m more concerned with VOCs/off-gassing and unknown potentially unsafe synthetics,chemicals or plastics in the mattress. I prefer our mattress to be as natural as possible without sacrificing comfort. If there is a trusted very well studied synthetic involved, some bleaching of fibers or a tiny amount of synthetic somewhere deep inside a mattress then I’m sure we’ll be fine. Just trying to do my best to limit exposure to the stuff when possible.
My husband is allergic to horses so that’s not an option.
Are there particularly safe synthetics you know of that are being used in mattresses? They just starting to tell people to stop buying plastic shower curtains, soft rubber bath toys, certain make ups…they’ve created regulations on bpa but that’s old news now. I’m curious what’s next. Since we spend 1/3 of our life on a mattress If like it if what we’re sleeping on to not give us any surprises 20yrs from now.
Hi Lnr103,
If VOC’s and harmful substances are the main issue then the certification of the material would be the simplest way to make sure that a material is inside the range that most people would be comfortable with and consider to be “safe”. For memory foam and polyfoam (both of which are synthetic materials made from petrochemicals) CertiPur is the most common certification for harmful substances and VOC’s and with latex Oeko-Tex is the certification that you will see most often and is a little more stringent than CertiPur. All the latex you are likely to encounter is Oeko-Tex certified whether it is 100% natural, synthetic, or blended latex and all of it would be “safe” by most people’s standards.
Of course some people may have some health or medical issues (such as MCS or multiple chemical sensitivities) that make them more sensitive than others to some materials or for personal reasons may wish to avoid synthetic materials completely and for those where their answer to the question of “how safe is safe enough for me?” is different from the majority of people then post #2 here and the links and sources of information it leads to may also be a good place to start the research into the much more detailed, complex, and often misleading and contradictory information that is all over the web connected to the relative “safety” of mattress materials and fire retardant methods.
I guess that eliminates horsehair as an option in your mattress :). Fortunately it’s only found is some much higher budget mattresses.
Phoenix
Hi Lnr103,
Buying an all natural mattress with fewer synthetics isn’t so difficult, as a general statement… Especially if latex is good for you in terms of PPP. You basically only have a couple decision points to make, and then the rest falls into place from there.
- What is your tolerance for memory foam / poly foam.
- won’t have it, regardless of how safe someone else says it may be
- will accept it, but it must be CertiPUR (common) or Oeko-tex 100 certified (note that according to Phoenix, tempurpedic is not)
- don’t care as long as it’s comfortable
- If looking at latex
- 100% natural latex only,
- blended with SBR rubber
- If chemicals are something you’re avoiding, you probably want a mattress that uses wool or an inherent rayon material for the fire barrier, and in particular not a chemical treatment FR barrier.
In any event, if you’re just trying to be safe… A common approach would be to look for a latex mattress with organic cotton and optionally wool. Those even a bit more concerned will require 100% natural rubber instead of blended (in either talalay or dunlop). Some might select a bamboo (rayon from bamboo) cover instead of cotton, though it’s certainly far less natural…bamboo tends to be lower cost than cotton. In all cases, the mattress should not be treated with a FR chemical and would typically use wool, inherent rayon, or with a prescription have no fire barrier. There are a ton of mattresses made like this… Savvy Rest, Sleeptek, Green Sleep to name the ones I know, plus most of the recommended latex selling companies here will have a similar design.
My point, if I have one, is you’ll need to determine your comfort with polyfoam/memory foam, since if you don’t want it you’ll eliminate >50% of the mattress options you may be looking at.
Thank you both. Extremely helpful. Id prefer to stay away from polyfoam all together but if a memory foam is certified to be safe by certiPUR or even better, Oeko-Tex then I’m definitely willing to consider it.
Not interested tempurpedic any longer although we do love the way it initially feels in a showroom. Just not interested in spending that much and not having it be a certified safe material.
Thank you for the info on FR barrier - Another thing to consider for sure.
Cheers
Okay so I went to both verlo locations this weekend outside of Philadelphia and they were really pleasant and helpful, particularly Foster the president. Both locations seemed to want me to go for the gel memory foam though which I had to admit felt pretty nice. At first he “thought” it was certipure certified but by the end of our meetings he said he “knew that all of their foams were certipure”. He couldn’t provide any documentation saying so but said he would look for some.
They only had one latex option and it was…hmmm….weird. I don’t know what else to say about it besides that it felt strange. It was considered a medium firmness but I felt like I was both going to bounce off the mattress and sink off the edge at the same time. It didn’t feel very contouring…just floppy. Is that the norm with latex? I think if I were to be able to go with latex it would need both more firmness and some contouring along with potentially an ultra firm perimeter edge to frame the mattress so I didn’t sink so low when trying to get out. Does that exist? And if so, does it exist in our budget of 1400-2200 for a king (including the foundation)?
They do offer to build you your own more budget mattress there which starts out fairly affordable ($1200 for 9" with only 2" total of memory foam) but adds up quickly until it simply ends up being a better value to go with a reconstructed gel memory foam they get form their warehouse. When we left we were planning on going with their iVerlo Cool Comfort Gel Foam SITKA.
Can you help me decide if the problems I have with it are justifiable concerns?
- no documentation available (yet) on certiPure certification (which I do want if making a purchase) but he assures me they are certified.
- ALL of their polyfoam is 1.5 (not 1.6 or 1.8 as you had specified in your tutorial). I think this is only used in their transition layers but I’m thinking it’s also the Acella-Flex? I could be wrong there. He talked a lot about deflection but I got lost in the numbers. 36 sounds familiar though.
- The mattress is only 11" thick and my biggest annoyance with my current full size 9" deep mattress is that the fitted sheets are ALWAYS wrinkled up and slip off. I think I need between 12-14" of mattress simply because of that. What do you think?
*4. SPECS: the mattress is 3" of cool gel foam on the top layer (4 lb) followed by 2" of regular memory foam (not sure of the wt) followed by 6" of Acella-Flex foam which has some Fresh Foam odor eliminating technology with activated carbon in it.
- none of this is the slightest bit natural, in fact its so far from natural I’m amazed I was at all convinced to consider it…but Im hoping it IS truly at least certiPure and that perhaps that is good enough. Unless there are latex mattresses out there that are comfortable and not so low budget in feel (although I’m certain they aren’t in price).
Thanks ahead of time for reading this.
one positive…or I think it sounds like a safe alternative to toxic flame retardants is that verlo encases the mattress in some sort of sand layer that resists flames without using standard flame retardants. Know anything about that?
Well that would be the inherent rayon that I wrote previously. You can get more info on this forum (I don’t have the links super handy) or there’s some info here Latex and Flammability Laws
thanks dn!
Hi Lnr103,
As to the latex, it’s hard to tell … If you can, it’d be worthwhile finding out if it were all latex or only partly latex, and if it were talalay or dunlop which feel different. That way, you’d at least have some reference for what you don’t like.
But bouncy is definitely how some people describe it, and
Latex mattresses don’t usually have an ‘edge support’ system… It’s usually one or more latex plates the entire size of the mattress.
So ‘bouncy with no edge support’ is certainly a description I could understand.
That said, latex can be made to feel different using a number of techniques, so I don’t know if you simply don’t prefer the feel of all latex, or if you just tried an especially unsuitable mattress unique to that one product, or if you don’t like whatever kind of latex was used (talalay v dunlop) but would enjoy the other one.
I was just reading the site you posted a link to. The guy at verlo kept mentioning that it was talalay and he talked about the rayon FB but he didn’t mention if it were blended with anything or if it was an all natural latex or not. On all the other mattresses he had a model breakdown of what was inside in layers but this mattress didn’t have that. He did have a piece of latex on his foam pile that was just an off-white piece of foam with lots of holes in it but that could have been the insides of one of the innerspring mattresses he has with some latex involved. I’m not sure if that helps. I could always call and find out though.
I have this awful memory from when I was a kid…My cousins, there were 8 of them in one house and they slept on these pieces of exposed foam on the floor. This was at least 25years ago. When I laid on this latex mattress it reminded me of what my cousins slept on for some reason. I think that floppy border makes me think poor quality/sad product, even if its not accurate. I have my fingers crossed that something latex works for me. I’d really REALLy like to have a natural product in my home.
I saw on that site that they recommend more natural latex and less blended. I’m curious how much natural unblended latex you can get for our budget in a king. They also suggest choosing 2-3 unglued layers with a comfort exchange guarantee. Maybe I could get the right feel from that. Is there anything latex that contours like a memory foam? Even just a little??? I went online to see if “clean bedroom” had a warehouse near here and someone suggested above but the closest is in nyc.
Hi Lnr103,
Phoenix has done an incredibly wise thing to help consumers know how to shop for a mattress, but not what to shop for. I say that because I hear you want to like latex, but it remains to be seen if you find one that matches your PPP. Hopefully some of the Philadelphia options have more than a single latex mattress to buy. Does Savvy Rest have any dealers near?
Latex and memory foam are totally different. Latex is bouncy/resilient, whereas memory foam softens as you lay on it. Latex International makes a slow response talalay, which I know nothing about, but it’s supposed to be kind of closer to memory foam. And even memory foam varies by manufacturer as the ingredients and process to make are proprietary for each one.
Talalay feels basically the same being blended or all natural, Phoenix has written before, so I wouldn’t worry just yet about blended v natural. I’d keep at the tutorial post, as what I’m hearing is you’re still determining what basic things you like.
Talalay is pretty lively… Dunlop is less so. They are both good, and a matter of preference. But if you tried talalay, I can definitely understand the bouncy comment.
If you want to pursue a latex mattress, I would get the specs on what you tried. Layering, type of latex, and ild or density. It’s your first (and currently only) reference point so it’d probably be helpful to know what it was.
As to the all natural goal… It is amazing how the theory of it all seems so clear in your head until you discover that some ideas you hate, some things you thought you’d hate you love, etc. Again, you’ll have to decide if you want all natural (in which case you’re probably looking at 100% natural rubber latex and/or springs, with wool and cotton, with certifications), or if you want something that you feel is safe enough which it seems is CertiPUR and/or Oekotex.
Based on some quick math based on 100% natural rubber latex that I’ve seen and/or paid, yes I believe you could find a bed that was 100 NR within your budget… dunlop more easily than talalay, but I believe both doable. That would be the final P in PPP (I.e. You have a preference for all natural). I’d still follow the tutorial to first find a bed that satisfies posture and pressure relief.
Decisions, decisons 
Yeah. I’m realizing that. I have only been to 3 stores. The first two didn’t have any latex :-/ I have a couple places to check next weekend that will hopefully have more options on the floor to test out. Myorganicbedroom is a bit far but they have savvy rest so hopefully that will provide some more reference points. I’m doing this with a 1yr old in tow so I’m juggling a bit. My husband thinks we should’ve just bought the first mattress we felt so he hasn’t been much help.
I appreciate all the information everyone has been providing. Hopefully I will have a better idea by the end of next weekend.
Hi Lnr103,
I had some catching up to do in this thread!
They are listed on the CertiPur site here*
ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 link|Archived Footprint: certipur.us/pages/for-consumers/find-products/
As dn mentioned … latex is a very resilient and “springy” material so this would be part of all latex mattresses to different degrees (depending on the type and firmness of the latex and the design of the mattress and the cover/quilting) but outside of the resiliency there is no “standard” feel with a latex mattress because like all mattresses there is a wide range of different designs that use different types of latex and firmness levels that will each have a different “feel”. Your budget would be within the range of some “all latex” mattresses but it would depend on the thickness, the manufacturer, and the specifics of the design and type of latex. It would also be well in the range of latex hybrids that have latex in the comfort layer and then an innerspring or polyfoam support layer.
This would be OK in a two sided mattress but I would be very cautious with 1.5 lb polyfoam in the comfort layers of a one sided mattress in amounts more than “about an inch or so”. 36 would probably be the ILD of a support layer which is not a “quality” spec but a “firmness” spec.
This would depend on how important your sheets are and how well they would fit your new mattress (which I don’t know) but the suitability of a mattress has much less to do with its thickness and much more with what is inside it and the specific design. You could always bring in a set of your sheets and “make the bed” in the showroom to see how they worked (in a mattress store nobody would probably blink an eye :)).
It’s probably blended Taalay but I would always make sure you find out the specifics about any mattress you are considering. You can’t really tell the difference between blended and 100% natural Talalay by appearance and they both “feel” very similar as well (although 100% natural is more costly). The fire barrier is most likely an inherent rayon/silica fire barrier (see post #2 here) which is non chemical and I would consider to be very safe.
Many sites that either sell or are a hidden link to retailers or manufacturers that sell the type of latex they recommend will often “recommend” one type of latex or another … often based only on opinion that is “presented” as being more authoritative than it is. You can read a little more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. There is no answer to “how much” latex you can buy for a specific amount because a mattress is very different from buying latex by the inch and it will also vary greatly between manufacturers. The members here that sell latex mattresses online are listed in post #21 here and there is a wide range of different designs, options, and price ranges there but in addition to being good sources for latex mattresses they can be a very useful “value reference” as well. While latex can be just as pressure relieving as memory foam, it has a more “on the mattress” feel to it while memory foam has a more “in the mattress” feel. Post #2 here has more about the difference between them. There are some types of latex which are “slow response” versions (such as Talalay GL slow response) which have some of the “feel” of memory foam. If there is a Pure Latex Bliss dealer near you (you can just enter your zip here) they may carry some mattresses that use it.
If they carry both Talalay and Dunlop they would be a great place to get a very good sense of different types of latex and layer combinations.
dn’s comments are well worth taking to heart as someone who has both purchased a great mattress and is still “experimenting”
Phoenix
Visited a really nice Savvy Rest retailer this afternoon. They just opened about 10mos ago. It’s an organic furniture and design shop in center city Philadelphia, called Cella Luxuria (12th and Chestnut). The owner was a mattresses dealer prior to opening this very large shop so he knows a thing or two about mattresses but not a ton. They only have Savvy Rest on their floor and clearly they’re biased. Great place to get some info and check out a good latex mattress though. I was so relieved to find out that I DO in fact like a latex mattress. No, it’s nothing like the comfort of sleeping IN your mattress as with a memory foam gel but it’s comfortable, seems to work with my body and gives me peace of mind knowing there’s no chemical flame retardants, no glues and made from rubber trees versus petroleum. That being said though…how the hell am I going to afford one?? :-/
My budget is 2200 which needs to include the foundation and at the bare minimum, 10" of mattress (my sheets always seem to require 12+inches) :-/ 
we’d love the pillow top mattress, not just for comfort (since we actually tend to steer clear of the softness of pillow tops…I just like the added height for my sheets to fill out)
Despite our initial love of “extra firm” memory foam. The mattress my husband and I were drawn to was a medium Dunlop base with a medium talalay middle and soft talalay upper. With a low profile 5" foundation they told us it would cost 4200 plus tax. That’s only 10" of mattress and 5" of box spring. Is this a decent price? Can’t I find anything with a similar feel for 2200? I loved their wool/cotton blend cover too. So nice.
Does anyone know of a latex mattress with similar specs and similar feel for less money?