Talalay Latex on Coils: 4" (EcoCloud), 3" (Saatva Hybrid), 2" (Birch)? Other?

[turnstyle]

Hi all,

I found this site when I started to notice all the popular mattress review sites seem to give the same positive reviews, over and over, and then encourage use of their coupon codes. I do think those sites provide some useful information, but I also think they’re geared toward pushing sales.

I’m a 5’9" 150lb male. Have always slept on traditional coil mattresses. Think of myself as a combination sleeper (mostly side and back), I don’t like getting hot. I’ll share the mattress with a smaller partner (5’2 120lb female) also a combination sleeper. I’m a somewhat light sleeper, and do tend to wake up when partner moves around.

I’ve generally written off foam, in large part because the idea of foam just strikes me as a bad idea. I do gather they get warm, and may break down more quickly. When I try them, I don’t really like that “stuck” feeling. The one thing I don’t really know: perhaps a foam mattress would actually be so comfortable that I would no longer roll around so much, in which case the stuck feeling would matter less.

I also value “edge support” so I can use the full area of the mattress.

I’m most closely considering:
WinkBed EcoCloud - 4" talalay latex on coils
Saatva Latex Hybrid - 3" talalay latex on coils
Birch - 2" talalay latex on coils

To my thinking, a talalay latex comfort layer, on coils with a more-supportive coil perimeter, and with generally natural materials like cotton and wool, seems appealing. (However, I do also understand this isn’t the optimal setup to dampen motion from other sleeper.)

Overall, I think my instinct is the WinkBed EcoCloud – simply because my sense is the 4" talalay comfort layer may make it the most comfortable of the lot.

I think all the review sites drove me a bit insane, because everything seems to get a similar good review.

I also gather some here may advise other vendors – for example, perhaps Arizona Mattress Ultimate Hybrid.

Hoping some kind and knowledgeable soul here might help me find the best option. If the WinkBed EcoCloud is a solid choice, my life just became easier.

Many Many Thanks!

[NikkiTMU]

Hi turnstyle.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum.

Thanks so much for your kind words and observations. You’re not wrong. Many of the popular mattress review sites tend to have ulterior motives in their reviews and recommendations. We are glad you-ve arrived here!

I’m a 5’9" 150lb male. Have always slept on traditional coil mattresses. Think of myself as a combination sleeper (mostly side and back), I don’t like getting hot. I’ll share the mattress with a smaller partner (5’2 120lb female) also a combination sleeper. I’m a somewhat light sleeper, and do tend to wake up when partner moves around.

Thanks for sharing this. I’m not sure how many of our resources you’ve had a chance to look through so far, but you may be interested in our article on sleeping positions. In general terms, your preferred sleeping positions clash with each other a little in terms of support needs. Side sleepers tend to need comfort layers that are a little thicker and softer. In general, a good starting point for an adequate comfort layer for a side sleeper is 3" and then depending on weight, body shape, preferences, and the firmness of the support layers, to go up or down from there. Most side sleepers will fall in the range of from 2" -4". Where it pertains to back sleeping…a thinner top layer tends to work a little better. A good starting point for a back sleeper is 2" of softer material on top of your mattress and then increasing or decreasing from there.

To my thinking, a talalay latex comfort layer, on coils with a more-supportive coil perimeter, and with generally natural materials like cotton and wool, seems appealing. (However, I do also understand this isn’t the optimal setup to dampen motion from other sleeper.)

I can see you’ve got a general aversion to foam mattresses due to their tendency to “trap” you as they warm up as you sleep. They can be great for motion isolation, but as you’ve stated, not everyone is a fan of the self-described “stuck” sensation. It looks like you’ve got a good idea of your preferences when it comes to a mattress, which is a very important part of the mattress selection process! It is obvious you’ve been giving a lot of thought to what may be your best set up.

I noticed you’ve also been chatting with Ken at Arizona Premium about a potential DIY setup. Based on the research you’ve already done, a DIY may be a great option to pursue! You’ll be able to tinker with a DIY or custom option in a way a “ready made” mattress won’t generally allow.

The Winkbed, Saatva, and Birch (at first glance) appear only to differ in the thickness of their Talalay comfort layers. Would you be able to provide additional specifications (like the ILD of the various Talalay layers and, if possible, the coil height/gauge/count each mattress uses). It’s hard to make a meaningful commentary on these mattresses without that information. If you already have those specs handy and want to do a little compare/contrast on your own with regards to whether they’d be a suitable option for you, I’d recommend you take a look at our Mattress Durability guidelines and compare the information.

Also, you mentioned that you think the 4" of the WinkBed would be your favorite option. Is this based on any sort of previous sleep experience or previously owned mattresses/mattress testing?

I think all the review sites drove me a bit insane, because everything seems to get a similar good review.

Ah yes. Review sites and making a decision based solely on reviews can be problematic as reviews lack specific information about all the variables that can contribute to the suitability of a mattress (like details about the person and the mattress) that would make them more meaningful/accurate. I’d suggest reading about the dangers of making a purchase based on reviews here.

Looking forward to hearing more from you soon!

[turnstyle]

Thanks so much for your reply!

In finding the Mattress Underground forum, I actually feel a bit like “The Matrix” – meaning, all the common reviews of mattresses are serving a different and somewhat phony agenda, and now I’m suddenly uncovering the real truth.

And, now that I understand a bit more, I am increasingly interested in the idea of DIY.

I started a conversation with Ken, and he made a suggestion that really clicked for me: perhaps it makes sense to get 2 talalay layers of different density – such that I could swap them if I wanted the option of switching firmer/softer.

Does that seem like a sensible approach?

In which case, I gather I only need: spring section, two talalay layers, and the cover. Is that correct? If I intend to put this on slats, do I need anything else on the bottom?

I wound up with Arizona simply because I saw a few suggestions in this forum. Should I also be considering another source? Ken seems nice and well informed to me so far.

Thank you again for sharing knowledge with a newcomer!

[NikkiTMU]

Hi turnstyle.

Indeed. TMU is the “red pill” as it were when it comes to mattress related topics!

I, too, love a good DIY. I haven’t yet done one myself, but I probably think of a new configuration I’d like to try at least once a day. Probably an odd thing to admit daydreaming about!

[quote]I started a conversation with Ken, and he made a suggestion that really clicked for me: perhaps it makes sense to get 2 talalay layers of different density – such that I could swap them if I wanted the option of switching firmer/softer.

Does that seem like a sensible approach?[/quote]

It seems like a great approach. You can use them together (soft on top of firm or firm on top of soft) to see which set up your prefer, or you can try them independently. Having two layers of different densities allows you to do a little more testing and get a better feel, as it were.

In which case, I gather I only need: spring section, two talalay layers, and the cover. Is that correct? If I intend to put this on slats, do I need anything else on the bottom?

That’s correct. If the cover is zippered and completely encases your springs/layers, you wouldn’t necessarily need anything else on the bottom. If not, then you’d want something between your springs and the slatted base. If I’m not mistaken, all of AZ Premiums covers are zippered and encase the entire mattress “system.” Ken would be able to clarify, of course.

Ken is extremely knowledgeable, and really a DIY expert. He’s an excellent resource for your DIY journey.

Nikki