For those who are interested I thought I would mention that Tempurpedic has just announced that they are buying Sealy.
This is particularly interesting because last month … Advent International announced that they were buying a majority interest in AOT Bedding Super Holdings which owns Simmons and Serta (the previous majority owners were Ares Management and the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan). Ares and OTPP will remain as minority owners.
So now the four largest mattress manufacturers are basically owned by two companies.
Wow…how interesting I come across this as I am researching how to compare the new Seally Optimum sereis to Tempurpedic memory foam mattresses. I am getting a new mattress to replace my 6 year old latex mattress (which I had been very happy with until it started to bunch up in some areas at the top) and they are offering me a Seally Radiance model which is this new opti-cool gel memory foam. I personally dont mind being warmer in bed but am still concerned about going with a brand new product with optimum vs. a proven brand like tempurpedic.
I have read your amazingly informative posts about Tempurpedic and the serta icomfort line and I am hoping you can share your wisdom on the new Seally Optimum line? Specifically whether or not I should go with Tempurpedic Cloud or Seally Radiance or icomfort Savant knowing that price does not matter since it is a replacement?
I am a 5’4" women that weighs 135 lbs. I have lots of back and neck aches due to lots of computer use and tend to love the comfortable pressure relieving feel of mattresses. The latex has been great but has gotten a bit to soft over the years and does not provide much support anymore. I really like the feel of the Tempur Cloud and find the seally and serta models I have mentioned are comparable, even look better made in some sense, but are so new that they have not withstood the test of time like tempur has.
Just as a “FYI” … if your latex mattress was a Sealy (such as the old Springfree line) then you have most likely been sleeping on polyfoam comfort layers not latex even though they sell them as “latex” mattresses. The weak link of most mattresses are the layers near the top which is where it’s most important to have good quality materials.
You can read a bit more about the Optimum lineup in post #48 here. As you can see … the Radiance uses the lower quality base foam and has 2" of lower density gelfoam along with 2" of memory foam of unknown density (not a single retailer I have talked with has been able to find out the quality/density of the memory foam layers although it is quite likely on the low side). In other words you are dealing with a mattress that is impossible to assess the overall quality but where the base materials are low quality, the gel foam is lower quality and the regular memory foam quality is completely unknown.
The iComfort Savant (the more detailed analysis of the iComfort lineup is in post #11 here for others who may be reading this) also uses some low quality foams in the critical comfort layers and also has a low quality support layer and the gel foam is also lower quality … but at least the KoolComfort density is known (5 lbs) and is good quality. This is the softest of the three choices and would probably be the most risky in terms of alignment.
The Tempurpedic cloud (assuming you are referring to the basic cloud model which is now being cleared out) uses 1.2" of mid quality 4 lb softer memory foam and then 1.6" of high quality 5.3 lb memory foam and has a higher quality polyfoam base layer as well (@2.2 lbs or higher). The memory foam is also thinner with this mattress which for some people may be “safer” in terms of alignment but also may not be as comfortable (pressure relieving) as either the Optimum or the Savant. Your lighter weight may make this more suitable (depending on the position you normally sleep in) and the overall quality here is better than the other two options but the “value” is just as poor because there is less material in the mattress.
So overall … I would generally tend to avoid all 3 of these because they all have poor value (for different reasons) and I would not want to be forced into making a decision between them. If I had to choose though … and since none of them are good value anyway … I would choose based on which one best met your needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences). In other words the one that was most “comfortable” (pressure relieving), had the best support (kept your spine in neutral alignment in all your sleeping positions) and also provided the other features that were most important to you (such as sleeping temperature and other preferences listed in post #2 here). Since “value” isn’t an issue in this case … I would let your body make the choice.
In terms of sleeping temperature … then the Optimum and the Serta may be a little cooler than the Tempurpedic although you mentioned this wasn’t as important to you.
Thanks for your reply. After reading a bit more on the site I realized that I was asking the impossible of you I live in Toronto now so I only have the canadian makes of tempurpedic to choose from so the cloud SE would be the one…or maybe rhapsody? To be quite honest, my body is confused with so many options. The latex mattress I had was from Sterns and Foster 6 years ago and like I said had been great until recently. I am just as terrified to commit to switching to a memory foam mattress (even if it is without any additional cost) since it will be a new experience. I have always secretly wished for a tempurpedic and could not afford one, so am leaning in that direction, but trying to do my research.
I toss and turn constantly in my sleep due to poor circulation and low blood pressure …my body tends to fall asleep if i put pressure on a certain area for too long so I flip sides, go on my stomach and sometimes (rarely) end up on my back for a while. I am thinking the emory foam may help me keep still and not bounce around as much but who knows!
I am also really concerned about chemicals. When I purchased the sterns and foster bed (comfort cloud latex) it advertised all natural latex free from chemicals and fumes so I was sold. Not so sure abut these other foam mattresses. I will have to go in again and try them out again but you are right in that it will not be an easy decision. I am almost tempted to keep my old bed just so I dont have to make this decision now.
I wonder why tempurpedic is discontinuing the cloud SE…seems to be very popular, no?
The Canadian Cloud ES (not SE) is the same as the basic temper cloud in the US. the layering is the same (1.2" of softer 4 lb memory foam over 1.6 " of denser 5.3 lb memory foam). Based on quality alone (and nothing to do with which may be more comfortable for you or which has better value) … the Tempur would be better quality than either of your other two choices.
The Rhapsody is in the HD collection not in the Cloud collection and has thicker layers of higher quality memory foam (1.2" of 7 lb memory foam over 2.8" of 5.3 lb memory foam) and would be higher quality yet but with your lower weight the use of softer 4 lb memory foam would certainly be appropriate in spite of being less durable.
All the Stearns and foster “latex” mattresses from that time (as well as today) used way too much polyfoam in the comfort layers which is the reason they develop issues so quickly. If these layers were good quality latex instead of polyfoam they would last much longer. Even the layers (such as the support core) that are latex use synthetic latex which is the lowest quality and cost version of latex available. You were fortunate to get 6 years out of it. A “real” latex mattress (where you were sleeping on latex layers) would last you much longer.
With poor circulation and low blood pressure … pressure relief becomes especially important and both latex (in the right type, thickness, and softness) and memory foam (in the right type, thickness and softness) will do a great job relieving pressure. In this way they are about equivalent even though they have a very different feel. The only concern I would have with the Cloud ES for you is that the memory foam is on the thin side and you may “go through” it and feel more of the firmness of the base layers below it. Your weight though reduces this possibility but doesn’t eliminate it. This would be particularly true for side sleeping but careful testing and spending long enough on the mattress to test for pressure relief (and of course alignment) in all your sleeping positions can also alleviate this risk. Bear in mind too that if the floor model you are testing hasn’t yet gone through it’s initial softening and “break-in” period that it will be firmer than it will after the initial softening has been completed (usually over the first 90 days or so).
The Stearns & Foster line in Canada (including the Comfort Cloud) … was the same as the Sealy Springfree line which used synthetic latex (petrochemical based) and was mixed with polyfoam (also petrochemical based) in the comfort layers. While synthetic latex doesn’t have an issue with harmful offgassing it is also anything but natural. Most of the polyfoam that is poured in North America has also been tested for harmful ingredients and offgassing (through CertiPur) but is also a synthetic foam and will generally have an initial smell that will dissipate fairly quickly. Even natural latex will have an initial smell that will linger for a while (depending on the type of latex that is being used).
They are making changes to their lineup as a response to their recent difficulties (share prices and market share) as other manufacturers are cutting into their market and profit share. Consumers are finally beginning to realize (along the lines of this post) that Tempurpedic is not alone or even the best in the high quality memory foam market and is significantly overpriced.
The ultimate reason they do anything including “re-positioning” their lineup is because they believe it will increase their profit margin, share prices, and investor profit by “encouraging” people to spend more money on more profitable mattresses. It’s probably not a co-incidence that they are closing out the bottom of the Cloud line as well as the bottom of the Contour line and adding various mattresses that are in the higher budget ranges.
I live in Toronto now so I only have the canadian makes of tempurpedic to choose from so the cloud SE would be the one…or maybe rhapsody? To be quite honest, my body is confused with so many options. The latex mattress I had was from Sterns and Foster 6 years ago and like I said had been great until recently. I am just as terrified to commit to switching to a memory foam mattress (even if it is without any additional cost) since it will be a new experience. I have always secretly wished for a tempurpedic and could not afford one, so am leaning in that direction, but trying to do my research.