The 10 in. Tuft & Needle Diary

I’d decided about a year ao that my next mattress would be Tuft and Needle and now that I’m moving to a new place it;s time to finally order one. And now I see that the price has increased by $100 for the 10" queen. Ah well, my last mattress was that much and not especially good, so I;m looking forward to joining the family

I’ll be sure to let you know how it works out!

Hi tishaLA,

Yes … they changed the design in mid November and are now using more costly materials than they were previously. You can read a little more about the different design in this topic.

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Going to give ordering the Ten a shot tomorrow, nice to see that I didn’t imagine the price increase. Although as I’d originally thought I needed a queen when measurments show we’ve only got a full my expected costs haven’t changed. Guess I should really find myself a new foundation too while waiting for the mattress to ship, currently there’s a box spring of unknown age but I’m comfortable saying it’s old enough to drink :blush:

Hi Pizzapotamus,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

The foundation post here has more information about support systems that would be suitable for different types of mattresses and some sources for each of them.

Phoenix

After to many hours researching and reading on the computer, I was leaning heavily towards buying a Casper this weekend, even though it’s a bit more than I would like to spend. Now that I see here (great site, btw) that Tuft & Needle have revised their mattress, I think I will hold off. Looking forward to seeing what you all think of your new beds!

Hi doghouse,

There are certainly many great quality/value options that are available to the members here in every price range that can sometimes make it very difficult to decide on which of many good options would be best for you.

I would keep in mind that one person’s experience on a mattress can be very different from someone else so using someone else’s experience as a guideline for how you may feel on a mattress can sometimes be very misleading (see post #13 here about mattress reviews) but having said that … I’m also looking forward to some of the feedback about their new design.

I’m also looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

This thread has been really helpful in my decision to purchase a 10 from T&N. I am really excited to get my new mattress!

Hi reanimater,

I’m glad the site and this topic could help you.

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I will be ordering a Tuft & Needle mattress in the next few days and I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. I have found all of the information to be very helpful.

I’ve been thinking about getting this mattress for the last few months and to see the new change in materials makes me a little anxious. I did read in to the other thread with more details and I hope it ends up being just as good as the old version. I’m very much a fan of firm mattresses so I also hope it hasn’t become too much softer but improved pressure relief definitely sounds good!

I’m pretty sure I’ll be going with a 5" queen and I’ll report back with my experience!

Hi poiyo,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

You will be among the first on the forum to try the 5" version with their new design so I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Checking back in after having the 10" queen for just over 2 weeks. (I confirmed that we have the new design T&N mattress)
For the price, it’s a perfect replacement for our 2 year old daughter’s mattress, which i also have to spend a couple hours on each night putting her to bed and back to bed. So definitely going to keep this mattress!

We’re also looking for a replacement for our king mattress (boxspring style) as well. We’ve had our current king mattress for just over a year, and the springs are already noticably “lumpy” on 225# husband’s side. I think having the T&N has convinced us that we have to change to a platform base for firmness and stability, but the T&N new design is a bit too soft for my husband and i, although the firmness is almost to our liking (i’m also just learning to separate firmness from softness).We like really firm mattresses! So after hearing about the recent T&N design change, i’m really curious whether the original design would have been perfect for us.
Husband’s first half night on the T&N - he liked it. 2nd half night, not so much… (he only gets a few hours at a time when the toddler comes to our bed in mid of night and kicks him out - otherwise she refuses to let dad lay down on HER new bed)
Any suggestions for price-comparable options which are firmer and less cushion-top than the new design of T&N?

Hi kayche,

Thanks for the update and feedback … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

I’m not sure which mattress you have but most of the mattresses sold today come with a foundation that has little to no flex (similar to a platform bed) rather than an actual box spring with springs that compress. Actual box springs are very uncommon outside of some of the smaller manufacturers that still make them for their specific mattresses that do better with a box spring than with a foundation. In most cases … the cause of the “lumpiness” that you are feeling would be lower quality foams in your comfort layers or in some cases a mattress that doesn’t use a good quality insulator pad over innersprings that need them to prevent the padding over the springs from sinking into the springs.

The tutorial post includes a link to several lists of the better online options I’m aware of and there are many good options available to you.

There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved and firmness is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual sensitivity for anyone to to be able to suggest any specific mattress that will feel firm to you or will be a good match for you in terms of PPP based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

When you can’t test a mattress in person to assess how firm it feels for you then the best source of guidance will always be a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer who will know more about their own mattresses and the firmness options they have available than anyone else (especially if they haven’t slept on the mattress in person).

Post #4 here along with posts #3 and #4 here include some of the better lower budget online options I’m aware of if you are in a lower budget range.

Phoenix

Any in-depth inspections of what this new T&F mattress is composed of? I see that they’re using 3.5lbs density foam now for the top layer. I remember before it used to be around 1.8?

Hi sadatkarim,

You can see some comments about their new design and the materials they use in posts #2 and #6 here.

Phoenix

Tuft and Neede 10" Review, newly designed model.

Received a 10" T&N yesterday (12/16/14), confirmed it was the new model, which has 3.5 lb density in the upper comfort layer.

Impressed with ordering and delivery- great customer service, which included e-mail back and forth 3 times with lots of questions, which they answered promptly and in good enough detail. They honored my MU discount and gladly extended the return to 60 days.

Came rolled up in a long box- FedEx info said 67 pounds. We have stairs to manage, but two of us were able to “slide” the narrow box up the stairs- I’m too much of a weakling to carry it any distance, even with help.

Amazing amount of compression. After removing the wrapping, the mattress inflated in less than a minute. Slight “fresh foam” smell, but not much, and not the overwhelming chemical smell as with memory foam. By bedtime, the fresh foam smell had dissipated.

First thing I noticed, my mattress arrived with a completely different cover than is on their website. On their website they show a quilted, padded cover. My cover is a knit cover with their name embroidered on it- the types of covers that come with memory foam toppers. I was disappointed with the change. I will be sending them a “review” of the mattress, and will mention this. They need to change their website- the new version has been shipping for a month now, started shipping Nov. 18.

Before bed, I put on a couple of layers. On our old mattress, we had a nicely padded, but not overstuffed, polyfill mattress pad with cotton top and bottom. It’s still in excellent condition, so I washed it and put it on the new mattress. On top of that I put an organic cotton protector that came with our old mattress- it is about the weight of heavy flannel, and quilted, but no padding. Then flannel sheets. Even with these layers, the mattress felt no different to me than when I laid on it “raw” as received. Was hoping for a bit of addition of “pillowtop” feel from the mattress pad, but there was no cushion at all that I could detect.

First thing I noticed when getting into bed. Firm. Yes, even the new version is quite firm. I know the old version would have been too firm for me. There is good edge support on this mattress. Mattress feels good to sit on if you like to read in bed. The foam is “elastic”, but not particularly bouncy or springily like latex, sort of like memory foam without the sinking in.

I wasn’t sure how DH would like the change, but he fell asleep in about 5 min (his usual). He can sleep on anything- from air mattresses on the floor, to super soft pillow tops to hard innerspring. I am much more finicky.

DH was gone from bed at 3:30 am- I went to find him- it wasn’t the mattress, he thought it was fine. We just got back a couple of days ago from an overseas trip, he had jetlag. He actually felt pretty refreshed after just a few hours of sleep.

I don’t know how long it took me to fall asleep, but it probably wasn’t long, I don’t remember lying in bed lamenting the mattress feel. I normally start out the night on my back for an hour or two, then roll over to my side, and change positions throughout the night. Last night, I was surprised to wake up after 5 hours in bed to find I was still on my back! This is very rare for me.

On the mattress, I feel like I’m “floating” on top, although find my lower back completely supported while on my back. I experienced no pressure point pain while on my side (which is common for me on many mattresses) in either my hips nor my shoulders. All good.

The one thing I struggled with was getting the pillow (I was switching between 2) comfortable while on my side. My neck didn’t relax well while on my side. I know this is more likely a pillow problem than the mattress itself, so I will continue to try the various pillows I’ve collected over the past few years, to figure out the right amount “scrunching” for the proper height and support. I woke up a little stiff in my neck, but it went away quickly.

My main issue though. I woke up this morning aching in my scapula and thoracic spine area. I started to feel some discomfort in that area in the early morning. I was surprised by this. On some softer mattresses, when I lie on my side, I can feel my ribs “collapse” into the mattress- on the T&N, this doesn’t happen- I feel fully supported on my side (and back).

Our last mattress was a latex/innerspring mattress that I always found horrid. Too firm support layer, not enough comfort layers (we got it knowing latex can be good, but without knowing what was in the innards (before I knew about MU, maybe it wasn’t around then 6 yrs ago?): 1" Latex on top of 2" soft springs, on top of a very firm spring base, covered with very lightly padded wool/cotton top). My husband thought the TN feels firmer than our old bed, I feel the opposite. I’m starting to understand how weight and other factors (perhaps muscle tone?) affect the experience of a mattress.

Overall, I’m happy with the T&N, and hoping that my body adjusts to the new bed. I wish the updated mattress came with the quilted cover that was on the old version, a little disappointed in the new knit zip cover. We were considering getting a TN for our guest room, but have decided not to. I think this may be the type of mattress that appeals to some right off the bat, and perhaps a good long term choice for someone like me who was looking for a supportive, firm mattress that isn’t latex or memory foam (I prefer polyfoam out of all, no latex pushback or sinking in like memory foam), but for a short guest stay, I think most of the people wouldn’t find this mattress overly comfortable, at least not without a softer topper. My impression is that most people (at least in my family), sleep on a pillow top type innerspring mattress, and the T&N is a completely different feel. I have time to let my body adjust to this new type of mattress, but when a guest visits, they aren’t here long enough!

As a tidbit: my friend recently purchased a Casper mattress (seems like a lot of us debate between these two). I got to lie on it for about 30 minutes. Casper uses latex in their upper layer, and to me, I don’t like the pushback on my muscles that latex causes. However, the Casper felt great on my lower back for those 30 min. While I didn’t experience pressure point pain in my hips while lying on my side, I did start to get shoulder pressure point pain. The Casper is also firm, but in a different way than the T&N. It’s very hard to compare them, the feel and experience is completely different. The Casper is more springy and bouncy that the T&N. My friend and her husband found the Casper too firm after 2 weeks (he was getting numbness and pain in shoulders, she thought it just felt too firm), and Casper did send them a free memory foam topper to try. I’ve seen this a number of times when I was researching a Casper. I wonder if they will end up redesigning like Tuft and Needle?

I don’t know if it helps anyone, but I’m 5’ 2", 130 lbs, and carry weight in my hips.

Questions for Phoenix:

  1. Right now we have the mattress on our old foundation- an “adjustable” slat foundation: https://sleepworks.com/mattresses/flexible-slat-system I’ve never liked that foundation with our innerspring/latex mattress, I never could get it adjusted right. When I pushed the adjusters out to make the mattress softer, the mattress would “cave” and form a dip. Felt like i was sleeping in a hammock. I don’t think these foundations must be good for mattresses either- it is VERY flexible, more than it looks. Our old mattress developed permanent “dips” in the springs after 6 years (doubt it was the latex- there is only 1" in the mattress), I’m convinced from being on this foundation. Another natural mattress store owner locally said these foundations aren’t the best for a heavier mattress, and that they are “gimicky”. I agree. My question is: is it okay to have our new TN mattress on this foundation for a week or two? I think the TN weighs at least half of the old mattress. I ordered a mattress.net kd foundation, but it’s not here yet. I don’t want to compromise the mattress, but was too excited not to set it up when it arrived! I also think that a kd foundation will probably make the mattress even firmer? I hope not too much firmer… I am looking forward to no “beam” down the center of the mattress which I can feel through the mattress with the flexible foundation.

  2. Do you have any ideas why I got the scapular/thoracic pain last night? I’m still achey 5 hours later, despite rolling on my foam roller and hot bath. Is there anything I can change in the mattress/pillow or the way I sleep to help?

  3. I miss a more “pillowtop” type layer. On our last mattress (and guest futon), I’ve had thin toppers underneath the padded mattress pad- 1" of 14 ILD latex (which I don’t like by itself, but under thick mattress pad okay) and a 1" inexpensive egg crate foam topper (on top of the latex topper, again under mattress pad). Mattresses prior to this were polyfoam/innerspring pillowtops. Would it compromise the break in of the new mattress if I added a little bit of these soft, thin comfort layers?

  4. Does the foam in the bed break in under where we sleep only, or across the surface? Is there any benefit to rotating the mattress regularly (head to foot, not flipped). And how much does polyfoam actually “soften” during the break in period? I feel like this mattress is on the edge of being too firm for me, but I’ve read in some of your posts that sometimes if a person gets a mattress “just right” in the very beginning, sometimes it ends up being too soft a few weeks or months later, or something to this effect.

Thanks.

Hi sheep123,

Thanks for taking the time to share such detailed and thoughtful comments and feedback … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

A flexible slat foundation is an “active” part of a sleeping system just like any of the other layers in the mattress itself that compress or flex under your weight so it can certainly affect the feel and performance of the mattress. You can see more of my thoughts about flexible slat systems (such as the one that is an option with the BE mattress) vs rigid non flexing foundations in post #13 here and post #2 here and post #2 here.

In most cases using a non flexing foundation will make the mattress feel firmer but sometimes the effect of different components can be surprising for some people. There are different types of firmness and softness that some people can be more or less sensitive to (see post #15 here) and by firming up the support system under a mattress it can also “force” more of the compression to the top layer of the mattress which for some people may “feel” what they “translate” as being softer.

There is more about the most common “symptoms” that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and some of the possible reasons for them in post #2 here.

While it’s not possible for me to know why any specific person would experience a specific “symptom” … some of the possible reasons may include …

  1. This is just part of the normal break in and adjustment period that is part of any new mattress purchase (see post #2 here).

  2. It could be connected to the flexible foundation under your mattress which could be causing your upper back or shoulders to be in a somewhat “hunched” position which can create tension in your upper back over the course of the night.

  3. It could also be a pillow issue which is pushing your head and neck forward which can also create tension or soreness in your upper back over the course of the night.

  4. It could also be connected to the mattress pad you are using which could be interfering with the response of the comfort layer of the mattress and affecting its ability to contour to the shape of your body and perform the way it was designed to. I would consider removing it for the first few weeks while you are going through the break in and adjustment period. This is also why they are using a different and more contouring cover which can take advantage of the greater contouring or “point elasticity” of their new comfort layer material.

  5. The mattress may just be too firm for you.

Again … if it’s at all possible I would start with sleeping on the mattress as it’s designed to allow it to break in and for you to adjust to a different type of mattress so that it can perform the way it was designed to. Once your experience has “stabilized” over the course of the first few weeks then I would add any additional “fine tuning” layers that you may either need or prefer depending on your actual experience at that time.

The materials will break in more quickly in the areas where you sleep the most or where you are heavier and more slowly in the areas where you sleep less often or are lighter. There is no way to quantify how much softer it will feel or how much any particular person will be affected by it because it depends on the type and quality of the material and on the body type, sleeping style, and sensitivity of the person. If the materials are good quality then it will normally be “noticeable” but not so much that it makes a major difference in the feel and performance of the mattress although again this is all somewhat subjective so different people may have different experiences on the same mattress. If someone gets a mattress “just right” when it is new the it should still be well inside the range of being “just right” after it breaks in but if someone buys a mattress that is right “on the edge” of being too soft when it is new then even a relatively amount of softening can sometimes take them outside the comfort/support range that is suitable for them in terms of PPP (see post #2 here).

It’s always a good idea to rotate a mattress on a regular schedule (see post #2 here).

Phoenix

Phoenix-

Glad to post a detailed review- I’ve gotten a lot from this site, and wanted to add back a little.

Will take off the padded polyfill mattress pad tonight and sleep with only the cover that came with the mattress, and the thinner, cotton pad that I have for protection. Thanks for explaining why they made the change, and I thought it was only memory foam that really needed to have a thin cover since it responds to body temp.

Also thanks for explaining what might be contributing to the scapular pain. I’ve tried to be careful with my head position, but did sleep on my back longer with the pillow under my head- sometimes I sleep with just a rolled up hand towel under my head for neck support when I’m sleeping on my back might try that tonight. And I’ll pay attention to how my head lies on my pillow while on my side (I try to keep straight alignment with head back, but sometimes catch myself with it rolled too far forward as you described in one of the posts).

I’ll post an “updated” review after getting the mattresses.net kd foundation, and after we’ve been on the mattress awhile longer.

Thanks!

Hi sheep123,

That would be great … I’m looking forward to finding out how things are going after you’ve slept on the mattress for a bit and made some of the changes that may be helpful :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Well, I’m back after the second night because things have improved dramatically in just one night, and I think it’s because of your suggestions Phoenix!

First, I took off the heavily padded polyfill mattress pad. Last night we slept with only the original cover that came with the mattress, and the organic cotton protector from our old ESW mattress (little thicker maybe than cotton flannel, and quilted, but no padding.) Flannel sheets on top.

Next, I slid way down the mattress so I was on the “firmer” part of the flexible slat foundation. Up by the headboard, and for maybe about the top 1/4 of the foundation where the plllow normally would be, there are no adjusters- those are the most flexible slats.

The mattress actually felt softer with these changes! Taking away a softly padded protector, and moving onto a firmer surface. Who would have thought!

I slept extremely well and was very comfortable last night on my back primarily, with a rolled up hand towel under my neck instead of a pillow. I normally start out on my back, but roll onto my side because my back starts hurting. This mattress may turn me into a back sleeper! The times on my side, I had no pressure points. Like the feel of the foam- no pushback like latex and no sinking like memory foam, although I do feel comfortable cradling contact support with the important areas like lower back.

There were two things of note: when I took off the thick mattress pad, I noticed a bit of a foam odor, and it almost seemed like that familiar memory foam odor, but not quite. It aired out enough in just 30 minutes that I didn’t notice it much anymore. I’m very sensitive to smells, my husband couldn’t smell it. But it didn’t bother me enough to want to move off the mattress.

Two. The mattress under my body with just the cotton mattress pad and sheets, felt cold. For about 10-15 minutes. I did not like this. I was in flannel pajamas. The top of my body was getting warm, but my back side was cold. It did warm up and I felt comfortable during the night and didn’t wake up hot like I do on some surfaces.

I have a couple of questions in to Tuft and Needle. I am curious if this is a temperature sensitive foam. It have a very fast recovery rate, no “sinkage”, which makes me think no, but the very close smell and cold feeling on top seemed a little like familiar memory foam.

The second question I have to them is about the silica fire barrier. The cover feels quite slick, and my hands feel a little like they are coated when I touch the cover that came with the mattress. I wanted to know if the silica is bonded to the yarns, or just coated. I have allergies and am borderline asthmatic and need to worry about inhaled particulates that might give me a reaction. I plan on encasing the mattress in an alelrgy protector with a pore size of around 3 microns, so I wonder about the size of the silica. I still think this is probably one of the better ways to make a fire barrier (the one I like the best is wool), so I’m not worried about “safety” as much as getting an irritation in my lungs. (Perhaps I’m over reacting here?).

I wonder how much adding a wool “puddle pad” on the mattress would change the feel? We need some liquid protection and I wonder if that would make the mattress a little warmer, the cold feeling I really don’t like. But I won’t get one until after more nights on the mattress, and after getting the kd foundation.

So UPDATED from my first post: not quite as firm as originally reported if you don’t use too much padding on the mattress. I’d say the new model is more on the upper end of middle-firm to lower end of firm.

Hi sheep123,

What a different a night can make :slight_smile:

It’s not temperature sensitive no. Both polyfoam and memory foam are made with the same basic chemicals (an isocyanate and a polyol) and they can both have some of the “new” smell before they are aired out but the smell of polyfoam usually isn’t as strong as memory foam (although this can vary with both depending on their chemical formulation and on how they are manufactured, cured, and aired out before they are used in a mattress).

While they would be the best source of information about the more specific details of their fire barrier … inherent fire barriers that contain silica don’t have silica “particles” which come from crystalline silica. You can read a little more about them in post #2 here and in post #2 here. The fire barrier would normally be bonded to the bottom of the mattress cover (not incorporated into the actual cover fabric itself).

There is also more about allergy encasements in post #2 here but an allergy encasement that has a pore size of 5 - 6 microns or less will block the large majority of allergens in a mattress such as dust mite particles and most household dust particles.

Wool is a great temperature regulator in both directions (see post #30 here) and does a good job of evening out temperature fluctuations but a thicker puddle pad will have a bigger effect on the feel of a mattress than a thinner type of mattress protector. There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here.

Phoenix